swells08 128 Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Hey guys so many options, I'm currently using some winchester 147gr jhp...I was wondering what you guys prefer for SD loads factory of course. I see a lot of Federal options from classic Hi-Shock HST Hydra Shock but I see gold dot is highly recomended on-line I am interested in what you guys prefer and why? No flame wars just some basic info and results...thanks guys. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 I'm carrying 147gr Winchester Ranger T's (RA9T). It's very well regarded on pretty much every "What's a good 9mm SD round?" list. I also like to point out to my buddy, who's a .40-whore, that it performs damn near identical to his Winchester Ranger T in .40 that he thinks is magical. There's even a comparison chart on Winchester's own site, proving it. Quality, modern-day 9mm hollowpoints have really shortened the gap between calibers. Some people don't want to admit it, but it's true. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 i dont carry a 9mm, but in .40 s&w i carry either Hornady 165gr. critical defense loads, or 180gr. TAP loads. i plan on switching to the 175gr. critical duty ammo when it starts to hit the shelves next month. i like hornady ammo as ive never had a problem with any of it. ever. plus i like the reliable expansion it offers. its accurate, deadly and dependable like thier slogan implies. another reason i like them is that a few years ago i bought a few boxes of buckshot from them, and of box was short 1 shell. well i brought it to their attention and 2 weeks later i got 3 free boxes in the mail of the same exact type. pretty cool i thought. most companies wouldnt have gave a shit. but they did. i had bad experience with gold dots. out of my .50ae and box of 20, i had 6 of them not even expand in water jugs. i like the winchester ranger line as well as the pdx series too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BuffetDestroyer 969 Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 To decide for yourself, I would highly recommend Brass Fetcher's website http://www.brassfetcher.com/9mm%20Luger.html There are lots of good loads out there. A lot of what you read is based on marketing, and not actual ballistics results. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 I'm carrying 147gr Winchester Ranger T's (RA9T). It's very well regarded on pretty much every "What's a good 9mm SD round?" list. I also like to point out to my buddy, who's a .40-whore, that it performs damn near identical to his Winchester Ranger T in .40 that he thinks is magical. There's even a comparison chart on Winchester's own site, proving it. Quality, modern-day 9mm hollowpoints have really shortened the gap between calibers. Some people don't want to admit it, but it's true. ive had similar experiences with this debate as well. i just tell them the truth. weather some folks like it or not. the .40 is not a miracle round. it simply bridges the gap between the 9 and .45. its a middle man, more or less. i like the 9mm. and wouldnt have any doubts carrying one loaded with jhp's. i just dont own one yet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
roachtron 49 Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 I have seen alot of test results showing federal hst has the best expansion. http://www.btfh.net/shoot/bullet-test-2.html Here is one example. Plus I think they are more affordable, 50 rounds of .45 is around $30 online. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jbrubaker 13 Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 I use Cor-Bon Self-Defense 115gr +P JHP. 1350fps and 466 lb/ft of energy. That's about as much punch as I could find in a 9mm load. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timy 1,185 Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 I don't own a full size 9mm just my carry gun which is a Kel-Tec PF9. On the KTOG site the overwhelming choice is Speer Gold Dot 115 grain. Second choice is Hornady Critical defense 115 grain. Some people run heavier rounds but I hear some PF9s are finicky and don't cycle them reliably. I haven't had time to experiment but have run a couple of boxes of Gold Dot 115 without any problems. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MT Predator 2,294 Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 I'm a believer in Hydrashoks in 9mm, .40, and .45. Masaad Ayoob did a comparison with .45s in a slaughterhouse on live cattle and the Hydrashoks performed better and retained the most mass. You don't want the round to fragment but to retain its mass for the most energy transfer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Whatever ammo your gun shoots without any issues. Fancy ammo that will not feed will get you killed. Milsurp FMJ ball ammo that goes BANG every time will save your life. Any good plastic tip hollow point (open hollow point do not expand through cloth). that feeds perfectly in your gun will be an improvement in stopping power, BUT if it does NOT feed YOU bleed. JMHO 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kdbutler 563 Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) +1 one for deciding for yourself. From what I've read on forums like this, over at Warrior Talk, and among others, the premium offerings from major players (Federal, Winchester, Speer, Hornady, Remington), are all capable performers. You may have to buy a box in each brand you are thinking about, and find which one you and your gun prefers. I would strongly advise AGAINST using ball ammo in 9mm for SD, as it tends to overpenetrate and not expand. Two things you really don't want in SD ammo when better choices are available. Having said that, I've carried Federal HSTs in 124 grain +P, in my Kahr CW9 for about 4 years. Prior to that I carried Hydrashoks in the same weight. Edited January 24, 2012 by Kevin in Texas 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) I use Cor-Bon Self-Defense 115gr +P JHP. 1350fps and 466 lb/ft of energy. That's about as much punch as I could find in a 9mm load. Those had the best numbers in almost every metric. Wikipeda used to have a table comparing most of the top performers, but they took it down and replaced it with a vastly simplified version. Correction: I meant their DPX line. Edited January 24, 2012 by GunFun Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 My load of choice is Speer Gold Dot 124gr HP +P. +100 on the try several flavors in your firearm, find out what works best. IMO, you'll need a minimum 50rds (more is better) each to effectively assess them for reliablilty. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
swells08 128 Posted January 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 So this is a 100-200 dollar experiment? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Or you can come to the conclusion that lots of people with great equipment have done the testing for you. Then pick one or two that match your budget and shooting style and run enough of those to know it is reliable. In reality all of the top performers are good. My preference is to shoot something with similar mass and velocity to plinker ammo, so that I can have a faster recovery, and so that what I can afford to practice with will give me similar results to what I carry. "Practice with what you carry" is a great motto -- if you have an employer who provides you with both. For broke schlubs like me, I have to be a bit more practical. I've been carrying Hornady 124 gr XTP. It shoots in the same spot as wolf 115 and I don't notice any recoil difference, so my practice is productive. I can find it in stores unlike the Corbon DPX too. It isn't the top performer, but it easily beats the top performers from the 90s. Face it: the biggest part of the effectiveness is not terminal ballistics, it is you. Take all the advantages you can afford to, and then practice. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 So this is a 100-200 dollar experiment? Money well spent!You get to spend a day at the range, and in the process know if your firearm has any problems feeding/cycling a particular ammo. I'd stay with 115-124gr offerings, I like the +Ps and stay away from the 147gr. All the top SD rounds have pretty much been listed here. The only one I don't like is the Hornady CD. All will take the bad guy down. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 What problems have you had with the Hornady? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dayofruin 425 Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 So this is a 100-200 dollar experiment? Money well spent!You get to spend a day at the range, and in the process know if your firearm has any problems feeding/cycling a particular ammo. I'd stay with 115-124gr offerings, I like the +Ps and stay away from the 147gr. All the top SD rounds have pretty much been listed here. The only one I don't like is the Hornady CD. All will take the bad guy down. Why stay away from 147gr? Asking because I just bought some Winchester to check out. Right now my FNP-9 is loaded with 115gr jhp. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hutchsaiga 93 Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Hundreds of options. I have tested several and prefer slightly heavier bullets in 124 +ps or 147 grain. I like Winchester PDx bonded as they seem to expand best while still providing strong penatration. go with any major(Speer,hornady,winchester,Cor Bon) brand of high quality (not Winchester white box) with bonded bullets that feeds 100% in your gun and I mean 100%. Test a couple hundred and even rapid fire etc etc. heavier weight bullets are the way to go regardless of what anyone says. There isn't a substitute for weight and a bonded bulltet. The lighter weight higher velocity stuff is all hype and proves too not penetrate as well as heavier bullets in my testing on sweatshirt covered water jugs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MT Predator 2,294 Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Wikipeda used to have a table comparing most of the top performers, but they took it down and replaced it with a vastly simplified version. Don't trust Wikipedia for info your life depends on. Anyone can upload info on there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kdbutler 563 Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 What gun are you using, DJ Big Dog? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Silver_Bullet_00 2 Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 I did a test and a review on two types of ammo. I personally carry federal HST 124gr +p. Look at the results on a test I did. I posted it on another forum a few months ago. Here's the link to see the test http://www.snipershi...480#Post2898480 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Marc 147 Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Remington Golden Saber 124 gr +p (non-bonded brass jacket) From my 4" barreled Sig at 7 yards from the target my test showed that it will expand to 5/8" diameter within 1 milkjug of water and continue in a straight path through a piece of treated #2 pine 2x4 and lodged itself halfway through another piece of treated #2 pine 2x4 while retaining most of its weight and maintaining an ideal mushroom shape. All of the SD ammo listed here will bring down a bad guy so long as your gun feeds it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BuffetDestroyer 969 Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) The key factor is penetration to the FBI standard. There are some defense loads out there that are ineffective at reaching this standard, so doing your research is key (even if it is setting up jugs like Box-O-Truth). Keep in mind that you may be shooting through arms, clothes, glass, drywall and a bullet that only penetrates 6-10" won't likely hit the vitals necessary to incapacitate the aggressor even if it triples in diameter. Conversely if the bullet penetrates over 14", you won't dump all the energy into the intended target. If you insist on shooting FMJ ball ammo, then use the slowest heaviest projectile you can (the tumbling effect is what causes damage with FMJ) to prevent hitting your neighbors/innocent bystanders. Edited January 24, 2012 by BuffetDestroyer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Wikipeda used to have a table comparing most of the top performers, but they took it down and replaced it with a vastly simplified version. Don't trust Wikipedia for info your life depends on. Anyone can upload info on there. Right. I should get my info from guys here, where you have to certify all your data. Wikipedia is a great starting point for research, and usually points you toward good sources. As far as things like ballistic data go their peer review system works pretty well to weed out iffy information.Nerd rage is a good for tracking down obscure information and pointing toward a source. At the minimum it will let you know which areas are debated. Assume there is a chance that I was smart enough to check multiple sources, such as the old FBI tests, and a comprehensive series on 9mm ballistics done by one of the writers for shotgun news, or others. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wagdog 0 Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 I'm a believer in Hydrashoks in 9mm, .40, and .45. Masaad Ayoob did a comparison with .45s in a slaughterhouse on live cattle and the Hydrashoks performed better and retained the most mass. You don't want the round to fragment but to retain its mass for the most energy transfer. I use Hydrashoks for 9mm, .40, and .45 as well. A buddy of mine did a simple experiment with wet phonebooks and used Speer Gold Dot, Federal Hydrashok, and Golden Sabre. Seems like he had another brand or two but I can't recall them now. All worked fine but he found the same to be true of the Hydrashoks: they didn't fragment much if at all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sumsky 115 Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 I stagger these two rounds in my Sig 228 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 +1 to Kevin and Chile on the "test whatever load you use" (in the gun you're going to carry, to be more specific). Nothing like finding out your gun doesn't like a specific brand of ammo.......during an actual life/death situation. I stagger these two rounds in my Sig 228 Personally, I'd sell off or stash away the Black Talons. They don't make it anymore and people seem to want to pay a premium for it. Winchester Ranger T's are the modern, more advanced version of the Black Talons. They just don't look as cool, and Winchester wanted to get rid of the "evil" stigma of the name/look. Thus the creation of the Ranger T's. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
theorangeplanet 968 Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 I believe most of the 'modern' hollowpoint designs in 9mm are pretty good anymore. If you're a believer in needing to shoot through stuff like windshields, then maybe look at the +P stuff. The cheaper offerings by companies like Winchester's white box hollowpoints don't expand well when fired through clothing... so as long as you do the research of the specific load and find that it expands well with the FBI standard of 4 layers of denim then I'd say the rest is up to you. Personally, at the moment, I'm loaded with the 124 grain remington golden sabers just because they claim 'low flash' and expand properly in denim tests. But my choice is as good as most others out there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 The cheaper offerings by companies like Winchester's white box hollowpoints don't expand well when fired through clothing... so as long as you do the research of the specific load and find that it expands well with the FBI standard of 4 layers of denim then I'd say the rest is up to you. Just to be clear........Winchester's white box lineup is not even close to their Ranger T lineup. I'm not sure if that's what you were saying. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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