mag360 0 Posted March 31, 2012 Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 I only ask because this is the 2nd time that damn spring has come off and jammed my gun. Thought I had fixed it by filing a small notch in the bho but that didn't work, so this thing has got to go. Need this gun to go bang 110% of the time and with two failures already, it's just not going to cut it. this BHO looks like a problem in search of a solution. I can't believe it is such a poorly designed part. Are we really expected to trust our life on this absurd spring that can "pop off". How do I take the thing out? Do I just drive that pin out with a punch that it is mounted to? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GrandLotus 0 Posted March 31, 2012 Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 This might sound silly, but is your gun pistol grip converted? I added the notch in my BHO lever myself and have not had an issue as of yet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mag360 0 Posted March 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 no, not converted yet. Thinking about the kit from carolina shooters for the ACE 8.5" stock but it seems expensive at $210?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GrandLotus 0 Posted March 31, 2012 Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 My stock and tube alone, VOLTOR, cost about $210. Its worth the cash and I would personally advise to do research and not grind off the rear tang. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guns Are Great 140 Posted March 31, 2012 Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 The bho can be simply removed and left out. Then look up the krebs safety lever and buy one or grind yours to match. then you can use it for the bho. This is what i had to do. my bho didn't start coming loose till after 1500 rds after the conversion and notch. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GrandLotus 0 Posted March 31, 2012 Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 The bho can be simply removed and left out. Then look up the krebs safety lever and buy one or grind yours to match. then you can use it for the bho. This is what i had to do. my bho didn't start coming loose till after 1500 rds after the conversion and notch. If you have a picture available of the bolt being held open with the safety I would love to see. =] Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mag360 0 Posted March 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 ok but how do i remove it? just bang that pin out and take it out? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
haugpatr 972 Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 ok but how do i remove it? just bang that pin out and take it out? There is a retaining wire that holds the pins in on the left side(side opposite the safety) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 The bho can be simply removed and left out. Then look up the krebs safety lever and buy one or grind yours to match. then you can use it for the bho. This is what i had to do. my bho didn't start coming loose till after 1500 rds after the conversion and notch. If you have a picture available of the bolt being held open with the safety I would love to see. =] Ask and ye shall receive... Bonus points if you can name the year and model of car in the background... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timy 1,185 Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 ok but how do i remove it? just bang that pin out and take it out? There is a retaining wire that holds the pins in on the left side(side opposite the safety) That, and you'll also need to put a washer on the hammer axis pin on the R/H-safety side of the receiver to eliminate slop caused by leaving the BHO lever out. It needs to be approximately the same width as the lever. BTW, I don't know if the Spetsnaz have them on their guns but would be disappointed in them if they did. BHO? We don't need no stinking BHO! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ramlake 98 Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 (edited) Exactly what model are you speaking of? Where did you buy it? Edited April 2, 2012 by RamLake Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dayofruin 425 Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 While you have it apart, might as well go ahead with the conversion. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mag360 0 Posted April 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 I just have the plain old saiga 12 with a 19" barrel and the adjustable front sight post bar. Bought it in 2011 when they had the ATF import scare, got it from PRK arms in Fresno, CA. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wade Pruetz 103 Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 I only ask because this is the 2nd time that damn spring has come off and jammed my gun. Thought I had fixed it by filing a small notch in the bho but that didn't work, so this thing has got to go. Need this gun to go bang 110% of the time and with two failures already, it's just not going to cut it. this BHO looks like a problem in search of a solution. I can't believe it is such a poorly designed part. Are we really expected to trust our life on this absurd spring that can "pop off". How do I take the thing out? Do I just drive that pin out with a punch that it is mounted to? I love my Saigas and run them in 3 gun competitions but I would never claim they or any semi auto gun is going to be 110% reliable. Just yesterday my S12 ran perfect through 3 stages and then gave me feeding problems on the last two stages, but I saw plenty of Benellis and other shotguns acting up as well. Mine turned out to be a magazine issue so no fault of the guns but never ever expect it to be 110% reliable if your life depends on it. Try a revolver or side by side shotgun if those are the requirements. If done properly the BHO will be the least of your problems with this shotgun, I have never had an issue with any of the half dozen S12s I have owned over the past 3-4 years. There are plenty of threads on how to properly fix this issue. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RED333 1,025 Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 Leave your BHO in. Bend the part of the spring that you see hanging out past the BHO to the center of the reciver. Fell off 2 times, well do you have it in upside down? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guns Are Great 140 Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 (edited) The bho can be simply removed and left out. Then look up the krebs safety lever and buy one or grind yours to match. then you can use it for the bho. This is what i had to do. my bho didn't start coming loose till after 1500 rds after the conversion and notch. If you have a picture available of the bolt being held open with the safety I would love to see. =] Ask and ye shall receive... Bonus points if you can name the year and model of car in the background... Yes like this. This is the one I copied for mine. I ground my safety lever with a dremel tool and used paint marker to black in grind marks could cold blue. I did not buy a krebs. It works well. ok but how do i remove it? just bang that pin out and take it out? yes! Edited April 2, 2012 by Guns Are Great Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guns Are Great 140 Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 (edited) I only ask because this is the 2nd time that damn spring has come off and jammed my gun. Thought I had fixed it by filing a small notch in the bho but that didn't work, so this thing has got to go. Need this gun to go bang 110% of the time and with two failures already, it's just not going to cut it. this BHO looks like a problem in search of a solution. I can't believe it is such a poorly designed part. Are we really expected to trust our life on this absurd spring that can "pop off". How do I take the thing out? Do I just drive that pin out with a punch that it is mounted to? I love my Saigas and run them in 3 gun competitions but I would never claim they or any semi auto gun is going to be 110% reliable. Just yesterday my S12 ran perfect through 3 stages and then gave me feeding problems on the last two stages, but I saw plenty of Benellis and other shotguns acting up as well. Mine turned out to be a magazine issue so no fault of the guns but never ever expect it to be 110% reliable if your life depends on it. Try a revolver or side by side shotgun if those are the requirements. If done properly the BHO will be the least of your problems with this shotgun, I have never had an issue with any of the half dozen S12s I have owned over the past 3-4 years. There are plenty of threads on how to properly fix this issue. This is true. I tried the notch and bending the spring. It worked for 1500-2000 rds before it jammed it up. I solved one more possible issue with my weapon that I will never have to worry about again by removing it. It is not ideal in that The BHO shouldn't be a worry from the start since I did both when I converted it. But seeing that there is a stickie, it is obviously a recurrent issue. I don't want it to be a limiting factor as a reliable HD weapon soI feel better removing it and using the safety lever. Horn's customs rifles does this (knotches the safety lever) to their AK's partly due to nice function and some ranges require BHO while on range. Edited April 2, 2012 by Guns Are Great Quote Link to post Share on other sites
leadsled 40 Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 I bought this from CSS, http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-368/Saiga-12-BHO-Bolt/Detail I put a slight bend in the spring and dremelled a notch as close in as possible. Even if the spring were to come out of the the notch, the lever fits pretty tight to the side of the receiver, I don't think the spring can slip off. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 The BHO is nice to have. With the spring bent and a notch, it shouldn't be able to come out unless there is slop allowing the BHO to wobble side to side. That is fixable with a washer between the BHO and the Hammer tube around the axis pin. That is reliable. I think Bridis had it right. Do you think a gun is 100% trustwortht because spetznaz runs it? Really? Spetznaz runs AKs and many of them need a bunch of corrective work from the armororer right out of the factory before they are usable. Do you think the Russian military is as willing to admit their failures with accurate statistics in the way that ours does? Realistically, all weapons have problems. I have found my saigas to be at least as reliable as any other shotgun I have used, and a whole lot easier to maintain. Nicer in every category. I would use mine in a life or death situation, and would choose it over just about any other model. That said, I would want to test any gun for that function individually. When saigas have problems, it is obvious, and all the fixes are known. Most of the fixes are DIY or cheap. You either know yours runs right or you know it doesn't. There won't be any surprises if you test yours with your ammo of choice and run a lot of rounds through it. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mag360 0 Posted April 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 The bho can be simply removed and left out. Then look up the krebs safety lever and buy one or grind yours to match. then you can use it for the bho. This is what i had to do. my bho didn't start coming loose till after 1500 rds after the conversion and notch. If you have a picture available of the bolt being held open with the safety I would love to see. =] Ask and ye shall receive... Bonus points if you can name the year and model of car in the background... is that a 69 camaro? can someone walk me through how to get the pin out that holds the BHO? I tried tapping on it and no go, maybe I'm just not doing it hard enough. Ex. the take down pin on an AR-15 needs almost no tapping to get out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
storm6490 2,768 Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 no. the real deal did not have a bho nor a pos semi ctl group in the rear as far as i know. i dont use one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FunkedOut 91 Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 can someone walk me through how to get the pin out that holds the BHO? I tried tapping on it and no go, maybe I'm just not doing it hard enough. Ex. the take down pin on an AR-15 needs almost no tapping to get out. you gotta remove whatever is retaining your pins. look inside the receiver at the pins on the 7mm side (the side withe the larger heads). remove the plate or wire or whatever is there to keep them from falling out. then tap out your pins. watch that hammer spring... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crankywanker 7 Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 The bho can be simply removed and left out. Then look up the krebs safety lever and buy one or grind yours to match. then you can use it for the bho. This is what i had to do. my bho didn't start coming loose till after 1500 rds after the conversion and notch. If you have a picture available of the bolt being held open with the safety I would love to see. =] Ask and ye shall receive... Bonus points if you can name the year and model of car in the background... man i like that paint on your saiga. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 The bho can be simply removed and left out. Then look up the krebs safety lever and buy one or grind yours to match. then you can use it for the bho. This is what i had to do. my bho didn't start coming loose till after 1500 rds after the conversion and notch. If you have a picture available of the bolt being held open with the safety I would love to see. =] Ask and ye shall receive... Bonus points if you can name the year and model of car in the background... is that a 69 camaro? Nope, close though... As for your axis pin, it has a channeled shoulder on it, inside the receiver, there is a stiff wire being held against the axis pin's shoulder, you have to whack the axis pin pretty damn hard from the right side of the receiver. Installation is a bit tricky too Most people just wait until they have converted their weapons before working on the BHO. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guns Are Great 140 Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 I didn't put a washer in mine as mentioned in one of the posts above? But it sounds like a good idea so I would do that if you remove the bho. I think I will add one myself before shooting again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
theturtlepond 31 Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 So if you do take it out, do not buy the kit from CSS with the tromix modified FCG. That one is shorter for use with a BHO gun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 I run the modded Tromix sans BHO, no problems whatsoever... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guns Are Great 140 Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 (edited) So if you do take it out, do not buy the kit from CSS with the tromix modified FCG. That one is shorter for use with a BHO gun. I have the Tromix FCG from CSS in mine with the bho removed and no issues. What should I be looking for, issue wise? Edited April 15, 2012 by Guns Are Great Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bridis 319 Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 (edited) Go to Carolina Shooters Supply and look at their long list of installation videos. You'll surely find what you're looking for and you'll learn how to keep your BHO spring in place. Youtube also has many videos too. Do some research... Edited April 15, 2012 by Bridis Quote Link to post Share on other sites
unclejake 428 Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 I took the BHO's out of all of my Saigas and modded the safety lever on them. I am the QA/QC tech at an engineering and machine shop company and have some of the best welders in the world there, so I got scrap steel and cut it to right size for the finger extention. (2mm thick steel cut 5/8ths " wide by 7/8ths " long. Stuck it in a vise and bent it to a 90 degree angle, and had one of the boys tig it in place. A smooth weld job that looks nice when repainted and works great!! Gotta love my job!! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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