dragoonfaith 0 Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 I was wondering if anyone recognizes this AK-47 bullpup kit, and would know whether or not it can be used on a saiga-12? A friend and I intend to try just that, but don't know exactly where to start, whether the kit will fit properly, or even if it's simply impossible. Any advice or directions on where to look would be greatly appreciated. I apologize if this topic has been covered before, but if someone could point out such a thread to me, that would be great. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pistonring8 1 Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 Ive seen the AK done in a bullpup configuration before, weather you use a Saiga or Romanian kit or whatever. Like all bullpups, once you get the linkage rod routed and figured out to work reliably, your home free. Most folks are not very impressed with the design, its overall fabrication expense and time outweigh its usefullness. Ready built kits are very expensive. The F.A.C. catalog used to have one for around $500. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pistonring8 1 Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 Here's a couple pics to give you an idea. And some Saiga 12 bullpups. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CGuns 3 Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 No S-12 bullpup there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pistonring8 1 Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 ... Gotta gimme a minute there speedy, I can't keep up with you computer dorks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ForGreatJustice 1 Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 I only saw one S-12 bullpup, but I'll be darned! Someone threw it in a Muzzelite clamshell stock... It also looks like someone put together a Groza or Norinco 86 but didn't put the charging handle up top. I think one of the biggest problems with AK bullpups is that the charging handle prevents shouldering on the left shoulder. A pretty critical weakness in cornering. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shooter2 5 Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 (edited) I think one of the biggest problems with AK bullpups is that the charging handle prevents shouldering on the left shoulder. Uh... so what if you get rid of the charging handle, you've still got that pesky ol' EJECTION PORT throwing hot brass into your cheek! With a couple notable exceptions, bullpups IN GENERAL just aren't lefty-friendly. Edited January 25, 2006 by shooter2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
revor 0 Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 The kit you have pictured is called a AKU-94 Bullpup conversion. The kit has recieved many poor reviews. The articles I have read all say its ill formed cheap plastic, and the fire controls are unreliable, and usually dont work correctly. You can read about it at AK-47.net. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dinzag 31 Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Gotta gimme a minute there speedy, I can't keep up with you computer dorks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AegisDei 2 Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 From a "holy crap, what is that weird futuristic-space gun" perspective, a bullpup shotgun would be cool. From a "I'm hardcore about urban warfare and need to be able to clear a corner" perspective, a bullpup shotgun would be cool. From a "I'm a backyard MacGuyver and want to build cool stuff" perspective, a bullpup shotgun would be cool. From any other perspective, a bullpup shotgun doesn't seem too practical. My understanding was that a bullpup was to maximize barrel length with a minimal overall length in order to keep ballistics maximized. But with a shotgun, we've learned that it doesn't much matter how long the barrel is (check some of the old posts on ballistics v. barrel length): a shotgun will never give pin-point accuracy or 1600m effectiveness. Thus, the three reasons above are the only reasons I could see to do it. The time and money needed to create a reliable one don't seem to justify it, except for the cool factor of having a one of a kind bullpup. But I'd say, use the money to pay for an AOW and get an 12" or 8" normal style gun. However, if you think you can make a reliable bullpup, I'd be a huge fan and would endorse it whole-heartedly. I just don't see it being a realistic option, but please prove me wrong. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 From a "holy crap, what is that weird futuristic-space gun" perspective, a bullpup shotgun would be cool. From a "I'm hardcore about urban warfare and need to be able to clear a corner" perspective, a bullpup shotgun would be cool. From a "I'm a backyard MacGuyver and want to build cool stuff" perspective, a bullpup shotgun would be cool. From any other perspective, a bullpup shotgun doesn't seem too practical. That kinda also falls under the M-11 thread from a week or two ago... cool but not really practical... and I agree... I think a bullpup AK looks very cool... and being a righty... it works for me... BUT... it would have to be WELL MADE, and not chincy... to be one I would want to have as "my baby".... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
icarus 3 Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 (edited) I was wondering if anyone recognizes this AK-47 bullpup kit, and would know whether or not it can be used on a saiga-12? A friend and I intend to try just that, but don't know exactly where to start, whether the kit will fit properly, or even if it's simply impossible. Any advice or directions on where to look would be greatly appreciated. I apologize if this topic has been covered before, but if someone could point out such a thread to me, that would be great. That is a K-var kit. They have them for about $200; http://www.k-var.com/shop/product.php?prod...&cat=256&page=1 As far as building AK bullpups check this forum: http://www.gunco.net/forums/search.php?searchid=534741 Edited January 25, 2006 by icarus Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 (edited) If the shotgun bullpup wasn't plastic, I'd consider going for it. Didn't the guy that was on here that made one reenforce his with aluminum? I don't want to do all that. And you're right, M11s aren't very practical, unless you want to dump alot of ammo quickly and at close range for a minimum cost, like say, a gang member. Hence the targeting of MACs and TEC-9s by anti-gun groups. Edited January 25, 2006 by KySoldier Quote Link to post Share on other sites
icarus 3 Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 (edited) Here is the S12 bullpup. It is the sameone posted previously. It was made from a Mini14 Muzzelite stock. Here is the link to the page were I found it: http://pookieweb.dyndns.org:61129/Groza/images.htm Edited January 25, 2006 by icarus Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dragoonfaith 0 Posted January 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Thanks for the advice all- and yes, just to clarify, this is entirely a backyard MacGuyver spacegun thing. There are far more practical guns to reach for if I need one, but few as pointlessly awesome as a bullpuped 12. I like the mini-14 bullpup kit a lot more than the K-Var- I had been considering getting that same bullpup kit for my little ruger 10-22. I assume that it, like the K-Var kit, is plastic? Does anyone know if a pistol butted Saiga-12 or a rifle stock one would be easier to match up to that mini-14 kit, or does it make any difference? Again, thanks for all of the help and pics. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dodgeturbointerceptor 1 Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 kinda funny...... I sold my Mossberg 500 bullpup to finance my first Saiga S-12 shotgun in Jan 05......to a member here. Haven't seen him here anymore though.. What's Up ricardomangana? Best trade in the world....I love my S-12! I've owned a few bullpup designs. Steyr Aug Bullpup Bushmaster M17S Bullpup Mossberg 500 Bullpup I don't miss any of them..........even the Steyr. I got more than my monies worth on it. Only Bullpup I ever liked was the Israeli Tavor I held. Never fired it though. And though not technically a bullpup. I don't think. The FN P90(and now semi-auto PS90) looks nice. Bullpup Shotguns though...........No Thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ForGreatJustice 1 Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Only Bullpup I ever liked was the Israeli Tavor I held. Never fired it though. And though not technically a bullpup. I don't think. The FN P90(and now semi-auto PS90) looks nice. Bullpup Shotguns though...........No Thanks. The Tavor and P90 are certainly technical bullpups as I understand the term. Any weapon with the action behind the grip and trigger. The FS2000 looks really slick, but the price is ridiculous. I had a dealer quote me $2300 for pre-order. I mean, come on! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scoutjoe 276 Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 kinda funny...... I sold my Mossberg 500 bullpup to finance my first Saiga S-12 shotgun in Jan 05......to a member here. Haven't seen him here anymore though.. What's Up ricardomangana? Best trade in the world....I love my S-12! I've owned a few bullpup designs. Steyr Aug Bullpup Bushmaster M17S Bullpup Mossberg 500 Bullpup I don't miss any of them..........even the Steyr. I got more than my monies worth on it. Only Bullpup I ever liked was the Israeli Tavor I held. Never fired it though. And though not technically a bullpup. I don't think. The FN P90(and now semi-auto PS90) looks nice. Bullpup Shotguns though...........No Thanks. so the trigger was bad on the mossy? or it was just overall not that great? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 I had a Mossberg bullpup that had a crappy trigger. I also didn't like the grip safety, lousy design. Sold it and bought a S&W 4566. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jsr5 0 Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 Oh now you all have done it now I need another I think I can do better with my router table and some oak planks and it would serve a definite nitche for me in the storage area I could have it ready to go aboe the stairwell . Now if I can jsut get another decent deal to allow me money to play with. I like bull pup designes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mordecai 1 Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 (edited) The "compactness" of a bullpup is nice, but I still can't stand the idea of my face resting on the chamber area of the whole thing. Perhaps if it were a pistol-cartridge or something, but not much more than that. I also think it would be cool if someone made one out of a single-stamping / sheet bend instead of attaching something to the front of a normal receiver. Edited February 24, 2006 by mordecai Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ForGreatJustice 1 Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 I also think it would be cool if someone made one out of a single-stamping / sheet bend instead of attaching something to the front of a normal receiver. That would be the best. It should be fairly easy to come up with a monolithic AK receiver/rail system. Might make the whole thing accurate and compete (At least stylistically) with the LMT MRP AR-15. Actually...I would have thought Krebs would do that for the KTR series, but he went with a standard KCI rail instead. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DaGroaner 2 Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 (edited) nm Edited February 25, 2006 by DaGroaner Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ranger55 0 Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 And you're right, M11s aren't very practical, unless you want to dump alot of ammo quickly and at close range for a minimum cost, like say, a gang member. Hence the targeting of MACs and TEC-9s by anti-gun groups. You might be suprised what can be done with and M11 with a good stock and foregrip. It is not a trackdriving percision weapon but. At one of the shots I go to there are 55 gal drums set at about 50 yds. I can consistently nail them with my M11. I get regular hits on GI style pop up targets at about 100 yds. That is with stock sights which are not the best. Good trigger control and short burst go a long way in controlling a high rate of fire weapon such as the M11. That's not to say a mag dump at closer range is not a lot of fun, because it is. Just my 2 cents work on that subject Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ForGreatJustice 1 Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 (edited) So you rest your cheek right on the receiver cover with a bulldog? The reason I ask is because I just mounted a red dot sight on the top handguard of my AK pistol Yep...that's the general idea. The toughest part about AK bullpups is having a positive safety and keeping that charging handle out of your face if you ever have to fire from the left. Edited February 25, 2006 by ForGreatJustice Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jsr5 0 Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 Doesn't the reciever cover warm up conciderably when a mag or two is fired through them I'd think not having it sheilded would become uncomfortable pretty quick. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
detpat 0 Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 (edited) if you want a semi bullpup shotgun try the highstandard m10b. i got one and it's really cool. it's designed for short mags though, back when the 3 inchers were not common. makes a great cqb gun though. pat Edited February 25, 2006 by detpat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ForGreatJustice 1 Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 if you want a semi bullpup shotgun try the highstandard m10b. i got one and it's really cool. it's designed for short mags though, back when the 3 inchers were not common. makes a great cqb gun though.pat Good point. That's probably the ONLY semi-bullpup shotun that actually got made, used, and altogether worked (Pancor Jackhammer and H&K CAWS never more than vaporware). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 Pics for those who have NO IDEA what the high standard bullpup looks like... ( Cause I sure as hell didnt!) http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/SH26-E.HTM Enjoy!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kristopher_robin 0 Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 Saiga-12 bull-pup hand made variant Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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