Z1500 0 Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 Link to post Share on other sites
AegisDei 2 Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 Kudos dude on all the hard work...I'm uber-excited to get one in my hand! Thank you for stepping up to the plate and knockin' one out of the park. Keep up the good work, and we'll be eagerly awaiting official release. Link to post Share on other sites
mopeman 0 Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 (edited) Awesome dude! I really like the way your going about it, not making some POS that will only last less than a year. When do you think the order list will be ready? Edited January 28, 2006 by mopeman Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 You da man Z! I will keep waiting patiently. Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 Thanks for the update. Bummer having to wait, but I'm sure it'll be worth the wait. I understand that you don't want to put out another date (missing this date doesn't bother me in the least, it was always an estimate). Will you commit to letting us have a 2 week warning? 3 weeks? 4? I want to put off other purchases when we get close. Also, between the springs and the 1 piece change I'd guess that the price is up a bit? Willing to throw another number out? Link to post Share on other sites
kresk 10,063 Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 Congrats on your commitment as well as emphasis on quality. Getting a mag woody already! Link to post Share on other sites
epsylum 0 Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 saweet. I am keeping some money handy. Just tell me when. Link to post Share on other sites
Z1500 0 Posted January 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 You da man Z! I will keep waiting patiently. BTW, You've still got the first one comming to you for free. Kevin Link to post Share on other sites
Wolverine 10,360 Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 Good decision on the unibody Z1500. What's important is doing it right. Everyone of those mags will have your Z1500 signature on it. They will be tough and last damn near forever with a change out of springs and maybe a follower every 100,000 miles or so. Like the others I want in on this too. I'm looking at four. Thanks for your investment and willingness to make this happen. Wolverine Link to post Share on other sites
beerslurpy 1 Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 I hate to be a dick, but if you had just made the mags good enough for 1/10th the price, we would have just bought 10x more of them and thrown them out when they broke. There is no need to compete on quality when you are the only person on the market. That being said, I cant wait to see how they turn out and for what price they sell. Link to post Share on other sites
pedal2alloy 206 Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 Hey Z, great job and don't worry about the schedule. It takes how long it takes. I'm sure that you didn't realize how much detail and complexity there was to it until you got into it. (Or maybe you did, but none of us did) A plastic mag looks simple at face value but it is not, especially if you want it to live up to the durability standards that are expected of a military weapons system part, which is what this is. You did not start out with the intention of making some joke, weekend warrior disposible toy. This thing is a miltary grade mo-dicker. I don't know what a mil standard is, but I would guess it is something like 10,000 cycles of insert/eject or load/feed, maybe more, so it had better be some tough shit. If you had gone "half assed" and did the 2 halves, you would have had a failure rate of 100% by that standard. Much better that you are using your "whole ass" I can't imagine a sonic welded, 2 piece mag with loose/unbonded/unembedded metal reinforcement lasting more than an hour of combat use. Great, great job man - you are going about it right and that is really awesome. The question is not "how long will it take" the question is "will it be good" The answer is "FUCKIN' A" Link to post Share on other sites
santanatwo 1 Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 like a lot of people, I'm sure I will be willing to spend a higher total of dollars the more reasonably priced the mags are. example, if you are going to charge $80, a few people will buy one, I might even spring for one at that price.... but in that price range, your hanging out with the factory 8 rounders. at $60-70 many people will buy one, maybe two but at $40-50 each EVERYBODY will be wanting 3 or 4 and get ready to make some seriouse dough... the dreaded "saiga 308 high capacity thread" ran some numbers, you're about to be sitting on a gold mine. Assuming you don't price them out of sight. At $40 you would have people basing their choice to buy a saiga 12 on the availability of your mags. I'm not expecting you to under bid yoursell, I know you've got a lot of R&D and tooling costs involved (and labor). But remember PLEASE (I'm begging you) keep a reasonable price on these. at $40 I'd turn my wallet upside down and shake untill empty... saiga 12s are being imported again, so the demand will only go up. And we've got at least two years before any ass hats get elected. some simple math 1000 mags X $40 = $40,000 At $40 I know you could sell a 1000 of these puppies in a month if you posted them on the auction sites www.auctionarms.com www.gunbroker.com www.ebay.com and if you got desperate, shotgun news... Link to post Share on other sites
Prophet 1 Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 I hate to be a dick, but if you had just made the mags good enough for 1/10th the price, we would have just bought 10x more of them and thrown them out when they broke. There is no need to compete on quality when you are the only person on the market. That being said, I cant wait to see how they turn out and for what price they sell. Maybe so, but some folks, who would be purchsing these magazines for use in other than than range conditions, would be second guessing that philosophy when their rounds dumped on the floor at crunch time. A failure to feed due to magazine deformity/separation would be just as bad. The high quality of the mags will only help to move the Saiga-12 out of the relm of recreational/hobby-only hardware. By maintaining the quality and value of the product, you minimize the appeal for competition in a market. Do what you have to do, your priorities are in the right place. -P. Link to post Share on other sites
beerslurpy 1 Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 Well it really boils down to what this extra durability and quality adds to the unit cost and ultimately to our cost. I can tell you that anything over 50 dollars is not going to sell like hotcakes, especially if that guy with the steel mags starts shipping soon at anything approaching a reasonable price. Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 I need mags that are going to be reliable. And I'm willing to wait for them. Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 You da man Z! I will keep waiting patiently. BTW, You've still got the first one comming to you for free. Kevin NOW Cobra's got a mag woody!! Link to post Share on other sites
ragnarock47 10 Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 Thanks Z1500. I am sure you have decided on your production method, and I am glad you went the better way. Put me down as one who'll pay more for more quality. I am one who'll pay more for quality in whatever I purchase whether it be a lawn mower, a pencil, whatever, but when it comes to a magazine for something that needs to be reliable, I can't even believe some folks would rather pay less for less of an item. Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 (edited) It is what it is. If you and Ian hadn't decided to get into the market there were very few options for Russian made 8 rounders, it counts as three U.S. made compliance parts, and it sounds like the price will be reasonable.What more can one ask for, and you know some dick would blast you on every board if you cut corners and one of your mags failed prematurely. Quality Always Shoots Straight!!!! I don't care if it was a business thing, or just something you had the resources to do and went for it. Thanks for stepping up and holding your ground until it was right on your terms. Hopefully it turns out to be a good experience for all of us in the end. Edited January 28, 2006 by 6500rpm Link to post Share on other sites
ForGreatJustice 1 Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 (edited) My guess is the mags won't sell for less than $50. At $60, they wouldn't be cheap, but they'd be competitive. If XM-26 users or police agencies with 12Cs wanted in, they'd easily get a discounted price. I'm prepared to shell out, and I don't mind the mil-spec quality cost. That's because its in EVERYONE's best interest to take the S-12 out of the C&M (Curio and Mastrubation) classification. Mag availability is one of th major hurdles keeping the S-12 in the NGO market. But government customers means more orders, and more orders means more lines dedicated to S-12s in Izvhesk. More lines means more amortization of cost, means more and cheaper S-12s which means bigger civilian market, which means cheaper accessories. By the way, Z, have you talked to C-More about supporting the XM-26 contracts? They're still trying to improve the LSS concept and it isn't dead, so there's a big market right there. You might want to think about making your processes compliant for gov't contracting/subcontracting in the future.... Edited January 28, 2006 by ForGreatJustice Link to post Share on other sites
Wolverine 10,360 Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 My guess is the mags won't sell for less than $50. At $60, they wouldn't be cheap, but they'd be competitive. If XM-26 users or police agencies with 12Cs wanted in, they'd easily get a discounted price. I'm prepared to shell out, and I don't mind the mil-spec quality cost. That's because its in EVERYONE's best interest to take the S-12 out of the C&M (Curio and Mastrubation) classification. Mag availability is one of th major hurdles keeping the S-12 in the NGO market. But government customers means more orders, and more orders means more lines dedicated to S-12s in Izvhesk. More lines means more amortization of cost, means more and cheaper S-12s which means bigger civilian market, which means cheaper accessories. By the way, Z, have you talked to C-More about supporting the XM-26 contracts? They're still trying to improve the LSS concept and it isn't dead, so there's a big market right there. You might want to think about making your processes compliant for gov't contracting/subcontracting in the future.... Meeting DOD standards is a compliance PIA from a documentation standpoint. Ever seen one of their purchasing specification manuals for a single item? It would have to be way way enticing for me to ever consider doing business with Uncle SAM. Link to post Share on other sites
Z1500 0 Posted January 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 (edited) We're gearing up for some real production- 1000 of the bad ass chromesilicone springs. It's kind of an optical illusion but those springs are 2.5ft long The price will be kept reasonable enough that people can stock up on them. And since the up front money is already spent and they don't cost that much to make each, I've got a lot of room to play with the price if I need to win any price wars. Kevin I don't think the XM-26 ever went anywhere but we'll see if they want some. I think the russians will want to buy some. Edited January 28, 2006 by Z1500 Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 Nice! My department armorer/ firearms instructor already likes the S12 in the import configuration. He's gonna drool when I get Tony to work his magic on it AND 10 rnd mags in it! Link to post Share on other sites
Kahlig 0 Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 Nice!My department armorer/ firearms instructor already likes the S12 in the import configuration. He's gonna drool when I get Tony to work his magic on it AND 10 rnd mags in it! I am going to be down for at least two. Can't wait! Link to post Share on other sites
PvtPyle 0 Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 Check your PM's. If they retail for $50-75 bucks, we will take 200 mags. If you break it out into three colors, we would want 75 clear, 50 orange and 125 black. Link to post Share on other sites
Wolverine 10,360 Posted January 29, 2006 Report Share Posted January 29, 2006 Well, hells bells I think I'll pick up 200 too. <_> Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted January 29, 2006 Report Share Posted January 29, 2006 I'll be more realistic and want say, three, maybe four...... Link to post Share on other sites
flcracker 0 Posted January 29, 2006 Report Share Posted January 29, 2006 I will take 3 or 4 as soon as they are available. Reliability is more important than cost to me. flcracker Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted January 29, 2006 Report Share Posted January 29, 2006 Z- Way to go. Please don't sell more than 1/2 to Uncle Sam, We need them too! ( I can see lots of these going to the sandbox, as the new door buster apparently takes S-12 mags. If the boys in the box need them we can wait!) G O B Link to post Share on other sites
PvtPyle 0 Posted January 29, 2006 Report Share Posted January 29, 2006 Well, hells bells I think I'll pick up 200 too. Yeah, but I was serious. The response from them here has been out of control. We have a lot of lurkers in SLC that come here and have been following the threads. I can probably sell most of them in a month. Link to post Share on other sites
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