evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 I am wondering exactly why people aren't trying them. Pricing seems appropriate now and I want one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 From what little I have seen posted they seem to be made of inferior metal so I am not really confident in investing in one without hearing more about them from someone with a good background in Saiga 12's... such as yourself so go for it brother! I was not real impressed with the one I handled at my local shop. Can't really put my finger right now on exactly what it was... just an overall "cheesy copy" kind of feeling. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
forsaken352 235 Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/87503-catamount-fury-tear-down-and-review/ 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted September 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 It isn't perfect, but as I recall, the Saiga 12 wasn't either The way I look at it is we have to make due with our resources and this is the only way to have a Kalashnikov based shotgun for cheap these days. At the rate things are going, one could throw another $300 at a Cat and still be in it for less than a Saiga 12. Some other research leads me to believe even these may stop coming. It seems that a lot of them are bouncing back to Century for warranty work and continuing to offer them may no longer make good business sense. Whatever, I just want to play with one and see if I con do anything noteworthy with it. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saltydecimator 482 Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 because its NOT cheap enough.... 4 is too high for a chinese copy, with shitty metalurgical and finishing processes 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Honestly I think they are under rated.. If century would get them to improve the quality about 10-20% they would be about equal to the Saiga.. They are running the mill bits longer than they should, which is making the parts rough. And they need to change the fire control parts to be convertible to standard AK parts.. Currently half the work in a Fury conversion is making the AK parts work. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
forsaken352 235 Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 If I didn't have my 12, and couldn't get one, I'd probably look at the MK1919 and put time and effort into it. Make it run everything, get an SAS lower, etc. From what I've read, I want to stay far away from the Fury. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DLT 1,646 Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 I would sooner spend the money on a Remington 1100 tactical model. At least I would get back what I paid if I ever sold it. Keep that catfish thing away from me. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mancat 2,368 Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 If I was going to buy a Chinese made shotgun, it would be one of the NEF 870 clones. They are better quality than actual current production Remingtons. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted September 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 I would sooner spend the money on a Remington 1100 tactical model. At least I would get back what I paid if I ever sold it. Keep that catfish thing away from me. I got a good laugh out of that on many levels. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted September 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 If I didn't have my 12, and couldn't get one, I'd probably look at the MK1919 and put time and effort into it. Make it run everything, get an SAS lower, etc. From what I've read, I want to stay far away from the Fury. I have considered getting one of those too, but I don't think it would hold up to the way I treat my personal firearms. A friend best described it as "appalling". I have the anti-safe queen mentality. Beat the shit out it, break it, and then improve it so it can take more punishment next time. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted September 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Honestly I think they are under rated.. If century would get them to improve the quality about 10-20% they would be about equal to the Saiga.. They are running the mill bits longer than they should, which is making the parts rough. And they need to change the fire control parts to be convertible to standard AK parts.. Currently half the work in a Fury conversion is making the AK parts work. It looks like there is a bit of genius in the design of some of it, but the axis pins and mainspring look crazy. I am looking forward to checking it out. I'm sure you are slammed with all of the different mag projects you have going, so I really appreciate you taking time to offer your view on it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
liberty -r- death 1,445 Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 I'm not much of a shotgun fan. But, if I were to buy one I would likely go for a Saiga. Still can get all the parts to fix it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james lambert 3,059 Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 I'm not much of a shotgun fan. But, if I were to buy one I would likely go for a Saiga. Still can get all the parts to fix it. cant get parts Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Honestly I think they are under rated.. If century would get them to improve the quality about 10-20% they would be about equal to the Saiga.. They are running the mill bits longer than they should, which is making the parts rough. And they need to change the fire control parts to be convertible to standard AK parts.. Currently half the work in a Fury conversion is making the AK parts work. It looks like there is a bit of genius in the design of some of it, but the axis pins and mainspring look crazy. I am looking forward to checking it out. I'm sure you are slammed with all of the different mag projects you have going, so I really appreciate you taking time to offer your view on it. I have a mostly complete video review of the shotgun. My factory magazines have been acting up too much to actually finish getting the round count high enough to finish the review. So I'm going to make a pair of mags to finish my review of the shotgun as it could be converted.. The problem I'm having with the factory mags is that the rounds try to exit through the ramps on the sides, not sure why they are doing that. I made a stock adapter for mine and discovered a few things you should not do in converting them. Among other things, the safety does not activate on a Tapco trigger. The back legs of the trigger need to be longer. Took very little time to add the metal with a welder and then grind it to shape, if someone was wanting to convert a bunch, it would be wise to make a part to add to the safety to take the custom work out of it. If I was going to convert a bunch of them, I'd get some chucking reamers to fix their crappy drilled gas tubes. Took an hour to sand the big bumps out of it, a reamer would probably make it smooth in a single pass and a couple minutes of clean up. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
storm6490 2,768 Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) They fucked it up so bad that they inttoduced VERSION 2.0! Apparently they are now Saiga slayers, according to this high speed, low drag, combat soldier. Evil, It's OK. You can tell us you purchased one. Buyers remorse is not the answer. Just sell it on gunbroker and remember to put BANNED in the title. Instant money maker. To answer your question.... 1. MADE IN CHINA Edited September 16, 2014 by Stryker0946 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Mark 2,452 Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) Apparently they are now Saiga slayers, according to this high speed, low drag, combat soldier. I never take firearms advise from guys in tricolor polo shirts. Edited September 16, 2014 by DaveM 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 I'm not much of a shotgun fan. But, if I were to buy one I would likely go for a Saiga. Still can get all the parts to fix it. cant get parts Can get about everything that could fail other than the bolt face US made right now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 My answer is, $400 for a reliable box fed semi auto shotgun isn't bad, but there are other guns which appeal more. They are rough, IIRC they limit which ammo I can use, mags are not common... So I could still get an S12 in the condition I would want for less money or a V12 by the time I am done, and would have a far better feeling gun. I am also concerned about parts failure. They don't look very good inside they feel quite rough. But when the other options dry up? Maybe. I would have said that I'd be looking at baikal tube semis first just on quality grounds, for the budget, but the same EO shot those down. (And a lot of baikals sold under names like Remington, Weatherby, etc. too.) Apparently there is not a current importer for the BR99 or Adkal. They feel like a more refined product, but I do have longevity concerns for them. Also the magwell is too small to allow much mag development. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james lambert 3,059 Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Mag options are limited by the width of the carrier . Mag well width is easy to change/ not the issue Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted September 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) I'm not much of a shotgun fan. But, if I were to buy one I would likely go for a Saiga. Still can get all the parts to fix it. cant get parts Can get about everything that could fail other than the bolt face US made right now. In my observation, people generally have to be doing something stupid to break the S12, so parts really don't worry me much. The carrier is really the suspect part and R&R filled that gap. I think as time passes the price Doug asks for those will look better and better. They fucked it up so bad that they inttoduced VERSION 2.0! Apparently they are now Saiga slayers, according to this high speed, low drag, combat soldier. Evil, It's OK. You can tell us you purchased one. Buyers remorse is not the answer. Just sell it on gunbroker and remember to put BANNED in the title. Instant money maker. To answer your question.... 1. MADE IN CHINA I'm pretty stubborn. If I get one I won't give up on it until it is totally fubar and I can't bring it back to life. I saw that a few weeks ago. It is laced with a little misinformation. It was good for a smile. Edited September 16, 2014 by evlblkwpnz 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 I think they are shit. The one I played with was rougher than any Saiga I fucked with. I'd gladly pay the extra coin and go Russian. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
XD45 7,124 Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 If I was going to buy a Chinese made shotgun, it would be one of the NEF 870 clones. They are better quality than actual current production Remingtons. I have a Norinco 870 copy and it's a fantastic shotgun for the $200 I paid. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saltydecimator 482 Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 because this is a waaaay better soundnng deal http://www.centerfiresystems.com/sgn-br99.aspx 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted September 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 because this is a waaaay better soundnng deal http://www.centerfiresystems.com/sgn-br99.aspx For most people, I get that. For me, I doubt it would be a good fit. I'm too rough on things. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DLT 1,646 Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 That Turk looks kinda cool. But something tells me that little bits and pieces will start falling off after only a few hundred rounds. Still better than the catfish. Vodka gun >Turkey gun > Catfish gun 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 Under current conditions I'm not thrilled about the money I've spent that's in Russian possession, and for years now I've tried (and it's getting harder every day due to exposure) to limit any money going to China considering the outsourcing of good American manufacturing jobs. Funny they're taking our jobs and this is the result of the quality they still put out. There are plenty of better options to spend what's left of your hard earned dollars on IMHO. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted September 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 I think a lot of it is perspective. Many just look at the gun and either like it or hate it. Some imagine it is a slightly different form and like it. I view things like this as a simple starting point for something far and away from what it is. I have decided that I am definitely getting one. Sure, it probably needs a lot of work to be worth keeping, but that is exactly what I have in mind. Curiosity about the Cat is killing me 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 Very rough conversion from Vepr-12 mag to Fury I mag. Still playing with a few of the sizes on the rear catch and its going to need a different feed lip first stage as the receiver stops are not contacting and making the magazine wobble. I'm not the first one to do this conversion process.. Mythbusters showed that it was possible long before the Fury was ever imported. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigdaddyhatty 65 Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 S12s used to be $350 and everyone said they were junk. You're better off with something US made... No more saigas are coming, so... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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