What is the most rebuildable AK?

[2manysaigas 14]

I have Saigas but frankly, I am afraid to shoot them. The ban on Chinese weapons was never lifted and I fear that the same will hold true for Russian AK’s.  I recently read an article where a public range in Las Vegas would routinely have to replace barrels and cracked trunions on their AK’s.  My question is, how many times can a trunion and/or barrel be replaced on an AK?  Are there AK’s made that lend themselves to replacement parts i.e. bolts, barrels, and trunions etc?  Is there any standardization of parts among the various countries that have produced AK’s?  The range said they have never replaced a milled receiver but I am wondering about barrel replacements in a milled receiver.  I know my son and I will never be able to wear out an AK, but I am thinking about the generations to come.  Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

[Mullet Man 2,114]

Serious?

Sell all your guns and don't look back.

[Heartbreaker 1,085]

You want something rebuildable? Get an AR15, or AR10 if you want the power. Completely customizable and replaceable.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Nevermind

 

 

 

ETA: That was likely Henderson Defense and those were full auto rental guns that get wrung out almost daily. Shoot your guns and stop worrying about it. If you can afford to shoot a barrel out and crack trunnions then you should have no problem at all stockpiling a few safes with weapons.

Edited June 14, 2015 by evlblkwpnz

[HB of CJ 1,263]

If you are alluding to the machine gun range in Vegas where you can rent stuff, then that environment might not be representative of the duty cycle and service life of practically all other AKs, both semi auto "civilian" and full auto "NFA" use.

 

The range's NFA type select fire AKs are very expensive ... IF they are transferable NFA weapons.  Dealer samples I do not know about.  If we could have asked the range guy about AKs, I wonder how many rounds their guns have shot?

 

And under what conditions?  Controlled short bursts, or some rich tourist buying a 75 round drum and hosing down the butts with the trigger held back?  Rental conditions may not be conductive to long service life ordinarily found elsewhere.

 

What is the average service life of an AK?  Does anybody know?  I am sure there must be some good data somewhere.  My feeble point here is that the average Jake is not going to shoot out his AK due to a very high round count or overheat.

 

With proper care, cleaning, lubrication and non over heating conditions, my Saiga 7.62x51 AK "Maxine Maxblast" (the guns name!) should go a minimum of 10,000 rounds before collapse or wear out?  My S12 ("Betty Bucker") 2500 rds?

 

Like already said before me better by Heartbreaker, the AR15-AR10 platform can be rebuilt pretty much forever.  We rebuilt beater worn out M16 rifles with a documented 100,000 round count.  Everything but the lower could be replaced.

 

Even it required some oversize pins and stuff, but the lower was the core of the platform and was a low stress part.  Tanked, refinished, rebuilt.  Again, I for one do not think we have a concern with wearing out our firearms.

 

Just me.  Respectfully.  HB of CJ (old coot)  All US Code Laws And NFA Rules Apply.  And ... how much would the ammo cost?  Yikes!

[mancat 2,368]

Henderson said exactly how many rounds those rifles typical took before they had to be rebarreled or rebuilt and it was around 80k-100k rounds.

 

They said the WASR continue to run past that point with no signs of the barrels being shot out - 7.62x39 is fairly kind to barrels...

 

OP if you think you will shoot North of 80k rounds out of a single rifle in your life, buy two of that rifle. Otherwise maybe just get yourself some critical spare parts and move on with life, and shoot the guns.

Edited June 14, 2015 by mancat

[storm6490 2,768]

nemo, the sanction only applies to the companies listed. there will be more russian ak's in the future. hopefully millions of them when they try to invade and we keep their shit. You will never shoot out your Saiga so just use and enjoy it. The most rebuildable AK would be the sloppy ass wasr and you will never wear one out. Accuracy will slowly fade but it will always throw rocks.

 

shoot the shit out of your saiga. you only live here once.

[Vance665 225]

You will not wear out your Saiga. Let your grandkids worry about it.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Vance665

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

I speak from experience that a Saiga 12 can go 10k rounds without major failure other than the carrier. Extractor spring will eventually fatigue and the extractor will wear where the pin retains it, but other than having more transverse movement than when new is likely to remain serviceable.

 

I have some data on the expected service life of Vepr rifle barrels, but it may be a while before I post it anywhere. 

Edited June 14, 2015 by evlblkwpnz

[YOT 3,743]

We aren't talking about Hi-Points here. I did wear one of those out. Pot metal guns are pot metal. That is all.

 

A battle rifle is an entirely different beast, although I'm not sure there is the same type of standard for AKs as say "mil-spec" applies to ARs.

[XD45 7,124]

 

OP if you think you will shoot North of 80k rounds out of a single rifle in your life, buy two of that rifle.

/thread

[Ruffian72 548]

"mil-spec", maybe by quality driven supplier in civilian world, always remember my 1st gunny drilling to check/recheck everything and be ready for failure of any equipment, including weapon(s). Always built by lowest bidder or some corrupt, cutting quality contractor.

[DLT 1,646]

Anybody care to guess how long a Mosin will last?

[HB of CJ 1,263]

I for one bet a Mosin will go at least 10 K.   Just me.  HB

Edited June 14, 2015 by HB of CJ

[HB of CJ 1,263]

Excellent topic and thank you all.  Now if we could only afford all that ammo.  I wonder if in the future military firearms teck will head in another direction?  Thinking here the all plastic, (or nearly so) throw-a-way military small arm.  The only high grade steel would be in the barrel liner, the bolt head, maybe the carrier, (maybe not also)  and maybe some FCG wearing or impact points and a few springs.  Use it for 2000 rounds then snap it apart for fire starters?  A built in round counter.  The whole rifle only costs $25 bucks to manufacture on some computerized plastic injection moulding machines and mills.  Just me.  HB of CJ (old coot)  Think cheapo air soft stuff made to shoot real ammo?

 

Edited by HB;  Would this work also with the new 3D copy machine teck?  Dunno.  We are already on our way there.

Edited June 15, 2015 by HB of CJ

[Sim_Player 1,939]

With some luck, we will start to see more American-made major components being produced.

 

Enjoy your guns!

[gunfun 3,931]

Anybody care to guess how long a Mosin will last?

 

Forever. You buy it on hype and quit shooting it as soon as any other gun comes into your collection. Guns that aren't being shot don't often wear out.

Excellent topic and thank you all.  Now if we could only afford all that ammo.  I wonder if in the future military firearms teck will head in another direction?  Thinking here the all plastic, (or nearly so) throw-a-way military small arm.  The only high grade steel would be in the barrel liner, the bolt head, maybe the carrier, (maybe not also)  and maybe some FCG wearing or impact points and a few springs.  Use it for 2000 rounds then snap it apart for fire starters?  A built in round counter.  The whole rifle only costs $25 bucks to manufacture on some computerized plastic injection moulding machines and mills.  Just me.  HB of CJ (old coot)  Think cheapo air soft stuff made to shoot real ammo?

 

Edited by HB;  Would this work also with the new 3D copy machine teck?  Dunno.  We are already on our way there.

 

You basically described the plan that the AK is based on. Just replace plastic with "cheap stamped metal" and raise the cost and round count. This is why "most rebuild-able AK" seems like a joke title. They are made cheap, to be hammered straight by the armorer, and disposed of in a heap when worn out. It costs about the same to make a new one as fix a worn one...

[mancat 2,368]

Excellent topic and thank you all.  Now if we could only afford all that ammo.  I wonder if in the future military firearms teck will head in another direction?  Thinking here the all plastic, (or nearly so) throw-a-way military small arm.  The only high grade steel would be in the barrel liner, the bolt head, maybe the carrier, (maybe not also)  and maybe some FCG wearing or impact points and a few springs.  Use it for 2000 rounds then snap it apart for fire starters?  A built in round counter.  The whole rifle only costs $25 bucks to manufacture on some computerized plastic injection moulding machines and mills.  Just me.  HB of CJ (old coot)  Think cheapo air soft stuff made to shoot real ammo?

 

Edited by HB;  Would this work also with the new 3D copy machine teck?  Dunno.  We are already on our way there.

 

Some of those things were already tried with the AR.. E.g. some of the AR10 prototypes used a steel barrel lining that was pressed into a hollow aluminum outer rod. Unfortunately differential expansion of the two metals didn't agree and the prototype barrels were known to burst under high temperature sustained fire.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if something similar could be done with carbon fiber or kevlar as the outer barrel shell. Would it cost less than just manufacturing an all-steel barrel? Probably not.

 

Many new military firearm designs take a cue from the plastic framed pistol world and some plastic receiver designs are out there. Hell, the 3D printed AR lowers work perfectly except for the buffer tube extension, and some folks have already figured out how to print the receiver with a steel reinforcement insert in the extension now.

[gunfun 3,931]

 

Excellent topic and thank you all.  Now if we could only afford all that ammo.  I wonder if in the future military firearms teck will head in another direction?  Thinking here the all plastic, (or nearly so) throw-a-way military small arm.  The only high grade steel would be in the barrel liner, the bolt head, maybe the carrier, (maybe not also)  and maybe some FCG wearing or impact points and a few springs.  Use it for 2000 rounds then snap it apart for fire starters?  A built in round counter.  The whole rifle only costs $25 bucks to manufacture on some computerized plastic injection moulding machines and mills.  Just me.  HB of CJ (old coot)  Think cheapo air soft stuff made to shoot real ammo?

 

Edited by HB;  Would this work also with the new 3D copy machine teck?  Dunno.  We are already on our way there.

 

Some of those things were already tried with the AR.. E.g. some of the AR10 prototypes used a steel barrel lining that was pressed into a hollow aluminum outer rod. Unfortunately differential expansion of the two metals didn't agree and the prototype barrels were known to burst under high temperature sustained fire.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if something similar could be done with carbon fiber or kevlar as the outer barrel shell. Would it cost less than just manufacturing an all-steel barrel? Probably not.

 

Many new military firearm designs take a cue from the plastic framed pistol world and some plastic receiver designs are out there. Hell, the 3D printed AR lowers work perfectly except for the buffer tube extension, and some folks have already figured out how to print the receiver with a steel reinforcement insert in the extension now.

 

 

There are both 10/22 and Rem 700 barrels made in this way.

[storm6490 2,768]

 

Excellent topic and thank you all.  Now if we could only afford all that ammo.  I wonder if in the future military firearms teck will head in another direction?  Thinking here the all plastic, (or nearly so) throw-a-way military small arm.  The only high grade steel would be in the barrel liner, the bolt head, maybe the carrier, (maybe not also)  and maybe some FCG wearing or impact points and a few springs.  Use it for 2000 rounds then snap it apart for fire starters?  A built in round counter.  The whole rifle only costs $25 bucks to manufacture on some computerized plastic injection moulding machines and mills.  Just me.  HB of CJ (old coot)  Think cheapo air soft stuff made to shoot real ammo?

 

Edited by HB;  Would this work also with the new 3D copy machine teck?  Dunno.  We are already on our way there.

 

Some of those things were already tried with the AR.. E.g. some of the AR10 prototypes used a steel barrel lining that was pressed into a hollow aluminum outer rod. Unfortunately differential expansion of the two metals didn't agree and the prototype barrels were known to burst under high temperature sustained fire.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if something similar could be done with carbon fiber or kevlar as the outer barrel shell. Would it cost less than just manufacturing an all-steel barrel? Probably not.

 

Many new military firearm designs take a cue from the plastic framed pistol world and some plastic receiver designs are out there. Hell, the 3D printed AR lowers work perfectly except for the buffer tube extension, and some folks have already figured out how to print the receiver with a steel reinforcement insert in the extension now.

 

Our local guys do this with carbon but it isn't so cheap. Works good, still cant get the Ma Duce to no start the barrel on fire after 100 rounds using three round bursts. Well, 50 I guess. http://proofresearch.com/

[2manysaigas 14]

Thanks to all of you for your responses.  I still feel that we could be only one "event" away from an assault rifle ban and that possibility gives me cause for concern.  As Bill Clinton said just last week, "you just can't have people walking around with guns".  I plan to shoot my AR's more and my AK's less.  I will probably pick up a milled Bulgy to shoot frequently and call it a day.  Again, thanks for your input.

[VR762Shooter 838]

If your looking for "rebuildable" a milled is not the way to go. Milled has the trunnion and receiver as one. You can replace a trunnion or a receiver but if both pieces are a single unit I'd say that's not the way you wanna go