Homeowner charged with manslaughter

[sjgusmc21 850]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/01/31/homeowner-charged-with-manslaughter-for-shooting-at-home-invasion-suspects.html

 

 

No matter how I look at it, I don't see manslaughter.  I don't see anything wrong, then the other 3 still breathing.   That's just me though.....

[BlackHeart762 288]

Shooting into a car is not a good idea, as this guy has found out.

 

If they are in your house...its a done deal

 

basic gun safety rule...be sure of your target, and what is beyond.

 

No way of telling if a kid is in the car, ect

 

BH

PS I have no sympathy for criminals,  just dont want honest people to become victims of the system

[WhiskeyMinion 300]

In Mn we had no castle law until a few years ago. You were required to flee your own dwelling.

No stand your ground here either. Shitty state for self defence rights

Edited January 31, 2017 by WhiskeyMinion

[Ronin38 2,117]

I don't know which ones for certain, but in many states you will probably be charged if you shoot someone who is fleeing, if they aren't shooting at you at the time.

A Police Officer can, if the person fleeing poses a clear and immediate danger to the officer or the public.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

That was an unfortunate choice of action.

Even if they are fleeing with your property it gets dodgy shooting at them since there is no longer a bodily threat.

 

I find people of all persuasions making increasingly poor decisions, some groups just make a lot more than others.

Crazy is contagious and spreading, no one is immune dont fall for it. 

[jerry52 893]

Having a gun is your right.

Knowing the laws of your state and how to defend yourself legally is your responsibility.

Taking a life no matter who it may be is a serious thing and should be thought about before getting a gun.

I tell people who I teach that when you shoot some one for a justified reason you still have to convince 12 people after the fact.

In short do all you can to avoid pulling the trigger. Castle or no castle law it still come down to 12 people.

One should carry good insurance for legal fees whe you own a gun. If he does get off he will not have a pot to piss in.

Personal defense with a gun and when to use it needs to be part of a larger plan and not a whim.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

IMO, the main element of self/home defense has to be self-control. I have had two situations at my home where control were key.

 

I heard someone stirring around my home at about 3am or so, went outside to see what was on the agenda, popped around a corner, the figure turned and moved toward me as I raised my aim with my finger on the trigger, and I realized it was the very boyish looking girl (even dressed in camo) who was spending the night with my daughter. She had apparently snuck out earlier to leave with her boyfriend and was coming back. I have known her family for a very long time and at times she and her sisters were around so much that they were like my own children. Accidentally killing her would have been very very hard to get past. 

 

Another night, I was up late and heard a vehicle moving slowly in front of my home. After having multiple vehicle break-ins happen, I'm jst not one to sit and wait for the sounds of yet another car window breaking, so I made my way outside (very dark out there and easy to move around unnoticed) to catch a few dark figures moving across my front yard that appeared to have long things in their hands. It gave me pause because I knew I was screwed if those were rifles and all of them knew how to use them. The root of my though was "What the hell is going on here?". It was a special unit of some kind from Jacksonville Sheriff's Office. Turns out they were looking for some moron my daughter had previously dated who had gone on some kind of spree and had warrants as a result of it. I was happy to hear that and glad no one got shot as a result of them slipping around my home, especially me. I understand why they didn't notify anyone, but that is a very dangerous tactic for the unit and the homeowner.

 

Both of these situations could have totally ruined my life as I know it without self-control.

[getitat 609]

Hello

 

My personal doctrine is to not have any firearms to be used after dark that do not have effective momentary-on lights attached.

Anybody with grown (or semi-adult) children can relate to evilblkwpnz's first scenario described.

I've had one of my adult sons enter my home unannounced (with a key) in the wee hours of the morning because he was too drunk to drive home.

 

It doesn't require an abundance of imagination to feel the grief that such a confrontation could result in......If I can't positively ID it, I won't point a gun at it with my finger on the trigger.

 

JMHO.......

 

-Guido in TX

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

First event was with light momentary on. At 15 or so feet, half awake, you would be surprised how unfamiliar a familiar face looks when you have never seen what they look like with a high output light shining at them. Look at the hands. If there is no weapon you may have a spare second to figure out who they are. Second event was a matter of not wanting to signal my position to multiple potential threats. We have had some pretty well organized home invasions around here the last few years and that was the first thought that entered my mind when I saw multiples. The last thing I wanted to do was shine a light. Hello guys with rifles, here I am, over here....

[HB of CJ 1,263]

Excellent discussion and thank you.  Yep ... very situational.  In a particular persons case, if the bad guys steal the SUV, well, the $4000 buck Ring Ding is insured.  Might get some of the value back.  The auto buggler alarm has been set back twice as cats and raccoons will set it off.

 

However ... for the bad guys to get INSIDE the house they must bust windows, locks, doors, and put up with sirens and lights. Once inside in Oregon they may then legally become toast with butter.  But ... still a heck of a thing to do.  Yep.  Once done done.  Have legal insurance. 

 

Right now we are thinking about spending the tax return on some good quality vehicle and home security video cameras.  This would be the final step in our security arrangements.  A balance must be maintained.  Too much money is being spent on practice ammo and training. Yikes! 

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

If my wife gets a return I may try to talk her into a nice camera system. The neighborhood we are in is good, but there are some that come from other areas to check open car doors and go in open garages. We keep our stuff locked and shut, so we are not much fun.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Speaking of lights, I wish someone would offer a light that put out sub-10 lumen with one switch and megalumen on another switch. It would be nice to have just enough light to move around confidently and not let everyone around know I am stirring.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

That is actually a really good idea, I like it.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

I get the desire to put a lot of light on something, but it seems like we have focused and forced the market so hard on that that we have lost the ideas of stealth and the element of surprise along the way. Night vision would be great, but not everyone can afford that and it is usually quite large and not so quick to deploy.

[Ronin38 2,117]

A two-way light would be great! One or two red LED's, and a bright white light.

I personally don't need a laser on it. Come to think of it, how hard would it be to replace a laser with a red LED?

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

One could make it easily but not to the standards we would like, at least I don't see it.

 

You are right NV is not cheap and it is not fast to deploy. It is slowly getting better.

Lost all mine in flood and have not had the will or time to make more.

There is a way but this would solve a lot of issues.

[DLT 1,646]

Shooting at the car was a mistake. Basically the same as shooting someone in the back that's running from you. Agree with the mounted lights. I should probably invest in one myself. Just as an extra note regarding criminals entering, they don't always bust down the doors. The time I had my "shtf" situation with the guys that got into my house, they were stealthy and got in because my door had been left unlocked. Lucky for me, I was armed and they got the hell out when their brains engaged and realized I had the upper hand.

[G O B 3,516]

I am fortunate enough to live in TX now, where we can defend our property, and that of our neighbors! BUT I did live in MD for over a half century. GET A DOG!

Dogs know who is supposed to be there and who DOES NOT! Dogs see better in the dark, and can smell what is there in total darkness. Dog usually handled the problem before I got my pants on!

 

I did have one of the "indigenous populi"  call the police. A neighbor saw the incident, and the punk had hit at my dog in my own yard. The Police asked if I wanted to press charges for assaulting my dog, I told them no, I would rather his homies see the stitches and know to stay out of MY yard!

[getitat 609]

First event was with light momentary on. At 15 or so feet, half awake, you would be surprised how unfamiliar a familiar face looks when you have never seen what they look like with a high output light shining at them. Look at the hands. If there is no weapon you may have a spare second to figure out who they are. Second event was a matter of not wanting to signal my position to multiple potential threats. We have had some pretty well organized home invasions around here the last few years and that was the first thought that entered my mind when I saw multiples. The last thing I wanted to do was shine a light. Hello guys with rifles, here I am, over here....

Hello

 

evilblkwpnz- Didn't want that to appear I was singling your post out for criticism, my post was a generalization of my personal feelings. I just used your experience as an example of a situation.

I would have described a similar situation if yours wasn't already there for me to plagiarize.

 

Respectfully,

-Guido in TX

[montec 164]

This is why i have a gerber recon flashlight. Its not the brightest, but i can choose white, red, blue or green quickly.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

 

First event was with light momentary on. At 15 or so feet, half awake, you would be surprised how unfamiliar a familiar face looks when you have never seen what they look like with a high output light shining at them. Look at the hands. If there is no weapon you may have a spare second to figure out who they are. Second event was a matter of not wanting to signal my position to multiple potential threats. We have had some pretty well organized home invasions around here the last few years and that was the first thought that entered my mind when I saw multiples. The last thing I wanted to do was shine a light. Hello guys with rifles, here I am, over here....

Hello

 

evilblkwpnz- Didn't want that to appear I was singling your post out for criticism, my post was a generalization of my personal feelings. I just used your experience as an example of a situation.

I would have described a similar situation if yours wasn't already there for me to plagiarize.

 

Respectfully,

-Guido in TX

 

I didn't take it that way. It reminded me that some details were left out that could "shed some light" on some things that are worth thinking about should others reading this thread happen to get in a similar situation

 

When I think back about these events as well as a couple of others that were actual threats, It is sobering how surprising and odd this stuff always is, even when aware. Things are not always what they seem and sometimes the things that are very obvious still have the twists that only reality can offer. I'm just glad that I have been able to make the right decisions under pressure in these situations. It is not easy and it gives me an even greater appreciation for Law Enforcement as they have to do this stuff daily in some areas. As a child it always appeared to me that Police had a cake job. As an experienced adult I grew to understand how magical a child's imagination can be.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

A two-way light would be great! One or two red LED's, and a bright white light.

I personally don't need a laser on it. Come to think of it, how hard would it be to replace a laser with a red LED?

MFT has one that is basically like that, but the switch is in a less than idea position and takes more pressure to activate that I would prefer. It is small and that, at least, is inspiring that what I would like can be done in a compact package.

[gunfun 3,931]

How hard would it be to replace a red LED with a green laser?

 

--I troll. But I do prefer the green laser. It illuminates, communicates, indicates, and dazzles. I wouldn't mind having a soft yellow-white light too. I don't want a 5 terralumen LED on there though. I don't want to inadvertently blind myself, which I think most of the tactical lights tend to do. 

 

I could see some value in a normal light in the yellow white spectrum which kicks to blindingly bright when you push hard on a momentary switch. Or perhaps push harder? Like the two stage triggers on a soldering iron, perhaps.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

How hard would it be to replace a red LED with a green laser?

 

--I troll. But I do prefer the green laser. It illuminates, communicates, indicates, and dazzles. I wouldn't mind having a soft yellow-white light too. I don't want a 5 terralumen LED on there though. I don't want to inadvertently blind myself, which I think most of the tactical lights tend to do. 

 

I could see some value in a normal light in the yellow white spectrum which kicks to blindingly bright when you push hard on a momentary switch. Or perhaps push harder? Like the two stage triggers on a soldering iron, perhaps.

Like candlelight vs gone plaid.