hoop762 0 Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 (edited) I bought a few boxes of this stuff after tonys post a few days ago. I expected good things, but i didnt expect performance like i got. This stuff is freakin' awesome!! The low recoil (red) shells are excellent. such a low recoil that i was having feeding problems on the #1 gas setting (i cannot shoot low brass shells on #1). Its definitely more expensive than the 15 round value packs from wal mart, but when you got performance like that, to me its worth the extra cost. Enjoy the pics! Shot from S-12 full choke 19" PIC 1 - remington 00BUCK 2 3/4" @ 15 yards PIC 2 - Speer LAWMAN 00BUCK 2 3/4" low recoil @ 25 yards Edited August 31, 2006 by hoop762 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 Well, here's the deal as I see it after thinking about it. Other than LEO, the best reason for this round is that a lot of you that purchased the first batch of short barrel'd Saiga 12's and had cylinder bore chokes perminently attached. Now you have something that will pattern tight like a full choke, maybe better. I haven't checked the price, but I'm sure for certain occasions to get performance like that it wouldn't matter. Is this stuff available in smaller shot, or just 00 buck? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
citizensafe 0 Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 Hoops, where did you purchase your Speer LAWMAN 2 3/4" low recoil and what did you pay? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hoop762 0 Posted August 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 6500rpm, yeah, this stuff is available in smaller shot. Check the link below. There are several different speer options out there citizensafe, CLICK HERE i bought a batch of 25 rounds for about 16 bucks, not too bad, but when you factor in about 10 bucks for shipping as well, it works out to just a tad over a dollar a shell, which is quite more expensive than rem/win 00BUCK, but as you can see, the paper speaks for itself. The reduced recoil are the red shells, but on the site the blue shells are pictured. I think they just have the wrong picture linked cause the description makes reference to reduced recoil. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 Holy smokes, that's incredible. For those not looking at the small print, the Speer picture is 10 yards further out !!!! Boy, if you ever had to take a rescue shot, this would be the stuff to use. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 Correct me if I am wrong here, shotgun shell reloaders... But couldnt you make a buckshot load that doesnt open up very fast... by NOT CUTTING the shotcups back as far? 2 half slits instead of three full slits? or the like?!?! Now... my next question is what makes a shell "LOW RECOIL"? I would assume it is LESS powder charge... I mean, Newton has a law, and the world follows it, doesnt it?? Or do these shells violate the known physics of the realm? I have NEVER seen/shot/experienced/handled/messed with any of the low recoil anything... so I have NO CLUE what makes them the way they are... But I would think they would be VERY easy to duplicate for a *LOT* cheaper.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KTR03 0 Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 Does anyone know if they make a full power load? I try to avoid "low recoil" or "Tactical" buckshot. To my mind its basically marketing speak for "low Power" and "moderately performing". D I bought 25 rounds too and am going to be getting it this week. I'm shooting a modified choke in my saiga so it will be interesting to see what develops. D Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 I believe the guy told me they were 1150fps instead of 1500fps+ for most full power ammo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zoub 0 Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 (edited) But couldnt you make a buckshot load that doesnt open up very fast... by NOT CUTTING the shotcups back as far? 2 half slits instead of three full slits? or the like?!?! There are things you can do with a choke tube that cause denser patterns. So in other words if you and I shoot the same load, in the same choke, I can get more hits in the center of my pattern. Makes it more lethal. EDIT: I don't mean to sound so simplistic here, it wil also add more effective range to any given choke you select to use. The basic principal is the choke tube slows the wad cup down, helping for better seperation from the shot column, thus less flyers and deformed shot, better pattern. In my mind the easiest way to do this is to thread your barrel to accept some popular brand of choke tubes like Remington or beretta etc.,...then you buy the appropriate tricked out choke tubes. More profitable for a guy like Tony R. to just thread a barrel then to go into making after market choke tubes. Edited August 28, 2006 by Zoub Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 There are things you can do with a choke tube that cause denser patterns. So in other words if you and I shoot the same load, in the same choke, I can get more hits in the center of my pattern. Makes it more lethal. EDIT: I don't mean to sound so simplistic here, it wil also add more effective range to any given choke you select to use. The basic principal is the choke tube slows the wad cup down, helping for better seperation from the shot column, thus less flyers and deformed shot, better pattern. In my mind the easiest way to do this is to thread your barrel to accept some popular brand of choke tubes like Remington or beretta etc.,...then you buy the appropriate tricked out choke tubes. More profitable for a guy like Tony R. to just thread a barrel then to go into making after market choke tubes. That is all well and fine... but I am talking about loading your own buckshot loads... (Reloading) and what can be done to improve patterning/shot densities/penetration/lower recoil from THAT perspective... lets pretend we are *ALL* going to use the same improved cylinder choked smoothbore shotgun... and then we can consider what I am asking about... I know what you are saying, and yes, that is all correct... I am working on "before" that portion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ironhead7544 35 Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 (edited) Yes, I think you could duplicate the low powered loads with handloads. The main problem with the large buckshot loads is that the shot deforms so much under pressure in the barrel. The round ball comes out looking like a pryamid and doesnt fly straight. This opens up the pattern. The low recoil loads counter this by using a low pressure powder and harder shot. This new ammo has a different way of doing the same thing. The shot cup stays with the shot longer and keeps the shot together. The lower recoil also allows faster times between shots. The standard OO buckshot loads kicks and a lot of law enforcement people cant handle it well. Some of the short barreled guns they use dont even have a recoil pad on them. If you want real power, check out Dixie Slugs. They have a load with 3 .600 inch balls that throws a tight pattern with the right size tube. Thats real power on both ends of the gun. The balls are hard alloy and will penetrate bone and muscle. Edited August 28, 2006 by ironhead7544 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 When I was a about 15 years old, my dad bought a bunch of 20ga shot cups (uncut) that were just the front half of a standard plastic wad. We loaded them with fibre wads over the powder and then the plastic shot cup. Fired on our patterning board, the #8 birdshot would all stay in the cup, flying the full 40 yards, and slam into the board. They entire shot cup would blow through the board like a slug. Oddly, they went in backwards. So, somewhere during the flight, the shot cup would turn over end for end. We ended up slicing them all full length in four places to use them for bird hunting. For whatever that's worth......... Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ironhead7544 35 Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 (edited) Tony: Sounds like you were making shotgun safety slugs. Did you ever try shooting water filled jugs with them? That type of load could solve the home defense/over penetration problem with shotguns. Edited August 28, 2006 by ironhead7544 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
joelrod47 373 Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 (edited) Edited August 29, 2006 by Jeaux E Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pedal2alloy 206 Posted August 29, 2006 Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 When I was a about 15 years old, my dad bought a bunch of 20ga shot cups (uncut) that were just the front half of a standard plastic wad. We loaded them with fibre wads over the powder and then the plastic shot cup. Fired on our patterning board, the #8 birdshot would all stay in the cup, flying the full 40 yards, and slam into the board. They entire shot cup would blow through the board like a slug. Oddly, they went in backwards. So, somewhere during the flight, the shot cup would turn over end for end. We ended up slicing them all full length in four places to use them for bird hunting. For whatever that's worth......... Tony It sounds like your dad invented the stuff! Like father like son Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mopeman 0 Posted August 29, 2006 Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 (edited) Don't forget that in some of those loads there are only 8 balls instead of 9. This makes it easier to "stack" in the hull and also adds to the accurucy of the round. This was gone over on Shooting Gallery about four weeks ago, you might want to check their site and see if the info is still there. They also add some kind of plastic b-b's to the shot so the balls don't smash together and deform. Edited August 29, 2006 by mopeman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
inparidel 4 Posted August 29, 2006 Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 With Wolf 12 guage slugs I can group dead center barely going out og the first hole all day at 25 yds. What's the velocity of those Lawman rounds?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted August 30, 2006 Report Share Posted August 30, 2006 With Wolf 12 guage slugs I can group dead center barely going out og the first hole all day at 25 yds. What's the velocity of those Lawman rounds?? Man, you must love those slugs becuase this is the second time you brought them up while everyone else is talking about this buckshot. Not trying to be rude, really. But that is not all that impresive for slugs. We're talking about impressive buckshot here. Start a Wolf slug thread. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
inparidel 4 Posted August 30, 2006 Report Share Posted August 30, 2006 That second pic looked alot like a slug target. SORRY! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THE_HUNTER 2 Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 How are the groups through a cylinder barrel?Both of my S12's are cylinder.Any full power loads offered in lawman?Sounds like they would awesome for coyote!I also have other 12's I could use them in also.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vangcomper 0 Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 PIC 2 - Speer LAWMAN 00BUCK 2 3/4" low recoil @ 25 yards I'm sorry, I'm going to have to call BS on that second picture. There is no way that at 25 yards that you would not be able to see the individual pellets, even if the pattern was the size as shown above. You only see patterns like that with big rips in the paper when things like the wad hit the target at very close range, like within 10 yards. Wads don't travel out near 25 yards so....... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hoop762 0 Posted December 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 (edited) Vangcomper, I hate that your skepticism has led you to make such a comment about my character. My integrity is very important to me and i dont take kindly to it being challenged by someone who has never even met me. What you cant see in that picture is the very bottom of the target there is a little round hole where the wad cut through the paper. I would have gladly explained that to you if you has asked, instead of just assuming that im full of "BS" I really hope that you will buy some of the lawman ammo and see for yourself. I know some other board members have bought some and had great results. Dont apologize. On this forum you have the freedom to say pretty much whatever you want. That is one of the things i love so much about this place. But, if you are going to make accusations that i would make up something like that, well...... have a little tact Edited December 14, 2006 by hoop762 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheGunHustler 3 Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 Vangcomper, I hate that your skepticism has led you to make such a comment about my character. My integrity is very important to me and i dont take kindly to it being challenged by someone who has never even met me. What you cant see in that picture is the very bottom of the target there is a little round hole where the wad cut through the paper. I would have gladly explained that to you if you has asked, instead of just assuming that im full of "BS" I really hope that you will buy some of the lawman ammo and see for yourself. I know some other board members have bought some and had great results. Dont apologize. On this forum you have the freedom to say pretty much whatever you want. That is one of the things i love so much about this place. But, if you are going to make accusations that i would make up something like that, well...... have a little tact Well said hoop Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ironhead7544 35 Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 Hoop: When you shot at 25 yrd did the point of aim change? That hit looks centered but does it hit in the same place every time? Thats my only concern with that tight of pattern. If it stays on point of aim it would make a great hunting round also. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hoop762 0 Posted December 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 ironhead7544, the pattern placement from shot to shot is quite consistent. There is not really a way that i know of to make it EXACT every time, but round after round i was very impressed with the overall performance. I have hunted with this round. Sadly though, ive never had the chance to take a shot with it...but i am confident enough in it to hunt with it myself. You do get less velocity cause its a reduced recoil (less powder) shell but i dont plan on hunting bear of and large game with it. Whitetail is the largest i would go Best thing for you to do is try some out. If you do i think you will be really pleased with the performance Quote Link to post Share on other sites
banshee 69 Posted December 15, 2006 Report Share Posted December 15, 2006 I guess I need to buy a couple of boxes and give it a try.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ironhead7544 35 Posted December 15, 2006 Report Share Posted December 15, 2006 Thanks, Hoop. I was hoping you would say that. Im going to try them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
romeo1oscar 1 Posted January 17, 2007 Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 Just for info. If you are a LEO this ammo can be purchased at gtdist.com for $1.99 per 5rd box. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lammy 1 Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 Just for info. If you are a LEO this ammo can be purchased at gtdist.com for $1.99 per 5rd box. I know this post is a year old, and checking the site, it's now $2.99 per box. Is this still the best deal around or is there somewhere else? I can order from gtdist. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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