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PvtPyle

What can you do to a Saiga?

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Nice essay, PvtPyle. Makes a little sense out of a crazy issue. Man, I am sure glad I'm a cop. Bill Clinton was such a prick. Can you believe we, the gun owners of America, let this happen in the '90s?

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I will have to move my B-Day celebration to Sept. 13th 2004!!! :super::super::super::super::super::super::super:

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The strangest thing seems to be happening to me with this whole mag deal. I have talked to K-USA, and AK-USA directly and at length about this, and EAA via email and nobody can seem to tell me what the ACTUAL law regarding this is. I keep getting the ATF says so, but they have not said so in writing..... Chris and I spoke about it and he made the most sense in the intent of the law arguement. But intent and actual wording is not the same thing in most courtrooms. The only exception being that of the ones ATF can control. EAA is saying they cant even sell to me as a dealer! WTF???? I can be trusted to sell machine guns but I cant be trusted to sell a MAGAZINE?!?!?! Whatever.

 

So I leave it to you guys, the gunowners out there. Do I write to the ATF and ask them about it, and possibly draw unwanted attention to our guns yet again? It would be a clear win for us if they followed the letter of the law. But the down side is they could screw us over on the guns and the mags with their sporting purposes crap. I can also find out if the 10 US parts portion of the law is applied equally to the shotguns. What the heck, in for a penny in for a pound. Once they start looking they probably wont quit until they have probed the issue but good.

 

So what do you guys want me to do on this? I am fighting for our rights on this USING THEIR LAWS, but do we risk losing some more?

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I say wait until after the sunset. If it sunsets then yippy nothing to warry about. If it gets a new life then our gun will most likely be exempt as pre '04 guns. Unless it is deamed a DD. ATF still wouldn't get it, I would go to jail over this, sad.

 

Also if you read the laws 8 rnd mags should be A'ok. I can not see why they are not. I think the problem is fear. The manufacture won't sell to you because there is not a demand for 8rnd mags. If the distributor offers and markets them then they made the demand. The marketing will not be paided for by 8 rnd sales and it will bring unwanted attention to the gun. 8 rnd mags have no measurable positive effect on EAA's bottom line. Like every company they are in it to make money.

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Ummm, they CANT reinstate it. They have to introduce an entirely new piece of legislation and have it pass thru to be signed. They cant just say "lets extend it" and have it be so.

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Not to be demeaning or trying to cut on anyone, but Jackhammer, you sound a tad young and full of piss and vinegar. Not saying I'm not young, but I've been at this game for a while and I've learned that patients and outraged statements only work on the camera. So save 'em.

 

I was 14 when the '94 ban began to get kicked around in the House way back in 1992 when Clinton came in, and I also remember the huge backlash against the Democrats afterwords (Republican Revolution anyone?). The bill was very close and this time, especially with this big "national security" scare going on right now, I very seriously doubt a new one will occur. If it does, I suggest what I suggested all along- civil disobediance. "Just Say No". Pistol grip stocks, bayonet lugs, flash supressors. SFW. If you want them, mount them. Unless you live in NY, Mass, or the PRK, no state or locals will give you any hassle 99.9% of the time, and seeing how long it takes the ATF to get back to me on a simple question, I doubt most of the very very small amount of ATF agents out there, know the codes on 922® either.

 

In the end its up to you, I live up north near Canada, and I can tell you that most Canadians still own guns, despite what their government says. I've seen Brens, Stens, FALs, AKs, and every other type of "regulated" and "restricted" arm up there nearly every time I go shooting outside of a controlled range up in BC. Canadian gun owners, and their corresponding agencies have told their federal government on more than a few occasions to shove it, and you know whats happened to them? Nothing.

 

All the gun grabbers are "peace-children" from the 60s right? Well, lets take a play out of their play-book and offer up a little civil disobediance, some peacefull protest, next time we get crapped on, instead of forming militias and giving a lot of wild eyed talk about JBTs coming to knock down our doors and start the next American Revolution.

 

Just my $.10 ('cause my $0.02 is free...who sent, you sent for me? Guess who's back....back again....Shady's back...tell a friend.....) (sorry)

 

 

Anderson

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Here in Utah it is legal to buy an atomic weapon, but it is a felony however to detonate one with the state boundaries.

 

I shit you not! :devil:

Edited by PvtPyle

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No, you cant. But only because they are not available. The point is that it is one of those stupid laws that is on the books. A civilian can buy one, but not detonate it. :rolleyes:

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the amount of explosives needed to detonate plutonium exceeds the amount legally obtainable by ordinary citizens, plus plutonium or enriched urainum is property of such and such place, and is not sellable by federal law. im SURE its ruleable as a "destructive device" and you have to file for paperwork on it. think your sheriff will ok that one? i doubt it. try making a breeder reactor in your backyard and see what uncle sam says about that. i do believe all that falls under some strange thing they call, what was it again? oh yeh, "National Security" or whatever that joke is. what i dont like is that i cant posess freaking rounds for my armalite's grenade launcher or its considered intent something or other, and is also a destructive device. but if that keeps some idiot from collecting thermonuclear weapons, so be it. :angel:

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It is also illegal to hunt whales in Utah. You know the great salt lake is kown for it large pods of bule whales, so they must be protected. :angel:

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LOL, PvtPyle! That's some funny shit! To think it is totally different here a state over. BTW, took the Saiga12 out this last weekend. After finally figuring out what it likes (lots of lube), she runs like a dream, a beaut! Excellent essay, saw it over at ak net too. Keep it up, we need people like you out there to interpret and to fight for these stupid laws, whatever they may be. Again, thanks!

 

Mike

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Let's go....the "woods" is fine by me.

Edited by Bvamp

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Gunfighter84

Thank you for responding to Bvamp's rediculous post. I wanted to do it myself but I just couldn't find the time and energy to sit down and pen it properly, because I knew to do so would mean writing a pretty long essay. Good job. It's passive and submissive gun owners that allowed all of these stupid bans get passed in the first place. Being complacent in this day and age will just make it worse.

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I'll dig them out and scan them in ASAP. Got a pic of a little old lady shooting a quad AA gun, I think its a 14.5mm. The range was incredible, and the fact that I saw numerous SKSs, Type-68s, etc, come in with (private?) citizens slung over shoulders or on bicycle handlebars amazed me. They were all People's Militia, but membership in the PM, which was manditory for gun ownership, was about like getting NRA membership. From how it was explained to me, even foreigners could join (!) Communism knows no political boundaries Comrade?

 

<shrugs>

 

I'll get on 'em.

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SaltPeter

Gunfighter84

first off, thank you both for serving our country....

 

:) boy do i love pissing in ppl's oatmeal :) but i tell ya, i have my rights because i havent done anything to get them taken away from me. my point was that this isnt the wild west anymore, and now you have things like serial killers, gangs, etc etc, and i just think there should be some form of checking on who you are before you can leave with that machinegun or whatever. and as for shooting indoors, i dont do it. gun ranges are no fun other than meeting other shooters. im not comfortable with the thought of some pissed off guy chasing someone down that just robbed them with a weapon that will go through them, the car in back of them, and into my house. and im not passive with gun laws, i vote against any that come up. but still, 100 years ago is a lot different than the world we live in today. you miss my whole point i think when you assumed too much about what i was saying. and is not filing the sear down on my rifles being submissive? how about not sticking a bayonet on my 870? thats not being submissive is it? but wait, explain why i need to do that anyway? If you own a gun store or are a cop or are in the military, you have a reason, and you are exempt with proper paperwork. what about if there were no paperwork? how about a crooked gun dealer that sells anything to gang members? almost everyone else dont have a reason and again, this isnt the wild west nor is it china or canada. nor is it a warzone. and if there is a war here ever in the USA, its going to be a race war probably and what i have will work fine in that case. then laws i wont care about. but thats not whats happening here is it? you missed my entire point i think. you dont use an automatic weapon for home defense. who are you defending against exactly? and dont you have any neighbors? i mean come on, you guys have problems putting mags in ak types. *I* dont want you to be my neighbor and get shot because you decided FMJ 7.62 or solid slugs in your 12 was your best bet to defend your home. you arent the only one on the planet you know. THAT is my point, and you missed it obviously.

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I have a bayonet on my 870. As well as a heatshield, pistolgrip speed feedstock, recoil reducer, magazine extention, and combat sling. Im gonna put a rail on it too so i can mount a reflex sight on it. As for my saiga im gonna put a pistol grip on it regardless of the law, and im gonna trim the barrel down to eight-teen inches (including the choke (gonna weld that sucker on (like ar barrels with the long flash suppressors))), as well as make some high capacity magazinesfor it. Assault weapon ban sucks. Patriot Act sucks. Patriot act 2 will suck. Any other bans, laws, restrictions are gonna suck. The government sucks. Anybody they put in office sucks. No body in any political party supports my ideas. The government by nature want to take our rights even if they think its in the best intrest. With the president sending our troops on a crusade in the middle east for weapons of "mass destuction" that dont seem to exist, al queda smashing plains into buildings, and a crazy korean with his finger over the launch button of God knows how many nuclear missles, i'm going to leave nothing to chance. These times are the most dangerous and resticting civilians with so many laws is folly. So I plan to make my saiga as cool, functional, and as reliable as posible, and i dont care what anybody thinks, nor can anybody stop me, but most of all no one should care, least of all my fellow Americans. When the shit hits the fan, and it IS going to hit the fan, believe me when i say i'm gonna be prepared and try to dodge as much splater as possible. All my friends say when the government falls, they are all coming over to my house because i have the guns. By the way I know many people with many acres of land in the middle of nowhere. So i and my friends can go shooting without fear of being interrupted. As for the lawenforcement officers in this forum i'm sure they understand (ive read lots of their posts). Saltpeter and Gunfighter, yall keep doing your thing, ill back you guys 110%. As for home defense, slugs and fmj bullets wouldn't be my first pick, but when it comes to survival anything goes. As for my neighbors "some fellas are lucky and some aint." - Steve Buscemi, Reservoir Dogs.

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when the ban "sunsets"

does that mean that the 12k is available for civ. use?

i won't mind owning two of these things

 

p.s.

am i the only one who thinks A.K.s are more fun to shoot than A.R.s

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armyboy

 

When the ban sunsets, the Saiga 12K will still be a short barrelled shotgun. The ban does not cover these, as the Gun Control Act of 1968 regulates them. However, the Saiga 12C, which has a folding stock, pistol grip, 8 round magazine, and 18" barrel, will be legal for civilian sale. Just like the old days when you could buy other military look-alikes.

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