SureFire mag problems

[Saigaczech 9]

I bought two new, sealed in plastic, SureFire 25 round mags for my Saiga 308 16" at the local gunshow a week and a half ago. Today I tested one....... Is there any way I can get my money back? First they fit extremely tight in the magwell opening. They worked fine with 5 round loaded, same for 10 rounds, but when I loaded 20 rounds they jammed the gun to the point that I could not cycle the bolt.. I had to remove the magazine at which time the bolt cycled perfectly by hand, but add the loaded mag and the bolt refused to cycle again an again. I could not even load the first round!!!!!!!. Obviously these mags are in some way out of spec. I very much doubt they would work properly if loaded to their advertised 25 round capacity. From now on I am sticking to FBMG 20 rounders. They I know work. DO NOT DEPEND ON THE SUFIREMAGS IN ANY CRITICAL SITUATION!!!!!! BTW, if anyone wants to trade FBMG 20 rounders for a couple of new (one barely used) SureFire Mags, you know where to find me. Based on the report of my experience here I doubt I will get any takers.

Edited April 17, 2008 by Saigaczech

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

This is not the first complaint I've heard about them but I haven't had any bad experience with mine yet. I have also only used it with 7 rds loaded. I will check and see how it does with 20 and with 25....

 

I do know someone who has several of them and some of his work better than others. It may be just a break in thing or the mag needs lubed, graphite, or lightly sanded inside. I was just talking with him last night about it. Maybe he will chime in with his results.

[Squib 0]

Man, I'm sorry to hear about that - I'm just glad I went with FBMG mags. I hear people whining about FBMG mags but I had no problems and will stick with them.

[GreenEye 1]

Where do you get your FBMG mags ?, I have not seen any anywhere.

[Saigaczech 9]

Where do you get your FBMG mags ?, I have not seen any anywhere.

 

 

I got mine direct from FBMG last year in November. Service was very fast, had 5 mags quickly and with no hassles. I am not sure what the current situation is.

[Deadeye 325]

U might have one of those bolts tha need to be filed down there is A thred about that I cant rember what it is called my 308 scratches the shell on left side of the mag Make me a deal and i will take your surefires.

[Stiles8302 0]

This is not the first complaint I've heard about them but I haven't had any bad experience with mine yet. I have also only used it with 7 rds loaded. I will check and see how it does with 20 and with 25....

 

I do know someone who has several of them and some of his work better than others. It may be just a break in thing or the mag needs lubed, graphite, or lightly sanded inside. I was just talking with him last night about it. Maybe he will chime in with his results.

 

 

I own a 20 round mag and its never jammed up on me

[netpackrat 566]

U might have one of those bolts tha need to be filed down there is A thred about that I cant rember what it is called my 308 scratches the shell on left side of the mag Make me a deal and i will take your surefires.

 

Sorry, but if you have to remove metal from the BOLT to make the mags work, that is a problem with the mags, not the rifle. If this was coming from FBMG, then they would have gotten roasted in this forum, and rightly so. I know that a lot of people really want a viable alternative to the bunny mags, but don't let your dislike for FBMG cause you to accept major flaws in the Surefire mags. At least hold the competition to the same standards.

[ABNAK 1]

Is it all of the Surefire mags in .308? I have a 20 and a couple of 15 rd'ers but haven't shot them yet.

[normnip 1]

I bought two new, sealed in plastic, SureFire 25 round mags for my Saiga 308 16" at the local gunshow a week and a half ago. Today I tested one....... Is there any way I can get my money back? First they fit extremely tight in the magwell opening. They worked fine with 5 round loaded, same for 10 rounds, but when I loaded 20 rounds they jammed the gun to the point that I could not cycle the bolt.. I had to remove the magazine at which time the bolt cycled perfectly by hand, but add the loaded mag and the bolt refused to cycle again an again. I could not even load the first round!!!!!!!. Obviously these mags are in some way out of spec. I very much doubt they would work properly if loaded to their advertised 25 round capacity. From now on I am sticking to FBMG 20 rounders. They I know work. DO NOT DEPEND ON THE SUFIREMAGS IN ANY CRITICAL SITUATION!!!!!! BTW, if anyone wants to trade FBMG 20 rounders for a couple of new (one barely used) SureFire Mags, you know where to find me. Based on the report of my experience here I doubt I will get any takers.

 

Reply: Reminds me of a similar minor problem that the excellent Tapco SKS mags have: Tapco correctly advises that with the wooden stocks the magazine well needs to be slightly filed or sanded.

 

So your problem maybe that, like the SKS mags, when the magazine is full it expands squeezinfg the rounds inside. Find out how much the magazine expands using a caliper: measure when 10 rounds full and then when 20 rounds full. The difference maybe your problem. If the difference is tiny enough then file the magazine well to fit. Maybe combine it with sanding one magazine a tad. We're maybe talking thousands of an inch.

 

My FBMG mags feed good but wobble side to side. I've been playing with the idea of thickening one magazine at the mag well area by using some epoxy putty. These mags aren't cheap! - an expensive experiment. If I'm right on all this then the FBMG mags would have the opposite problem to the surefire mags - too narrow versus too much expansion.

[SaigaNoobie 66]

U might have one of those bolts tha need to be filed down there is A thred about that I cant rember what it is called my 308 scratches the shell on left side of the mag Make me a deal and i will take your surefires.

 

Sorry, but if you have to remove metal from the BOLT to make the mags work, that is a problem with the mags, not the rifle. If this was coming from FBMG, then they would have gotten roasted in this forum, and rightly so. I know that a lot of people really want a viable alternative to the bunny mags, but don't let your dislike for FBMG cause you to accept major flaws in the Surefire mags. At least hold the competition to the same standards.

 

I don't think he's saying that the BOLT is catching on the MAG.... There is a thread around here about a guy who had his S.308 Failing to Extract because the bolt would gouge the next round because a part of the bolt hadn't been filed down properly. I think he was suggesting that maybe his bolt needed the same tweaking. I know I filed a bit down on my bolt to allow it to cycle smoother...

 

Anyway, he wasn't defending Surefire or Attacking FBMG, he was simply suggesting an alternate solution.

[ABNAK 1]

Went out today and fired my 15rd mags (3 of them) to max capacity---once each mag. Also loaded 10 rds in my only 20rd'er. Had 3 failures to eject but I attribute it to the gun being fired for the first time, not the mags (it only happened the first few mags and disappeared later). Total of 55 rounds fired. No mag related failures.

 

At least I don't think a failure to eject is mag related (?). Each time the next round was chambered and I only had to pull back a tad on the carrier to get the spent case out.

[Saigaczech 9]

U might have one of those bolts tha need to be filed down there is A thred about that I cant rember what it is called my 308 scratches the shell on left side of the mag Make me a deal and i will take your surefires.

 

Sorry, but if you have to remove metal from the BOLT to make the mags work, that is a problem with the mags, not the rifle. If this was coming from FBMG, then they would have gotten roasted in this forum, and rightly so. I know that a lot of people really want a viable alternative to the bunny mags, but don't let your dislike for FBMG cause you to accept major flaws in the Surefire mags. At least hold the competition to the same standards.

 

I don't think he's saying that the BOLT is catching on the MAG.... There is a thread around here about a guy who had his S.308 Failing to Extract because the bolt would gouge the next round because a part of the bolt hadn't been filed down properly. I think he was suggesting that maybe his bolt needed the same tweaking. I know I filed a bit down on my bolt to allow it to cycle smoother...

 

Anyway, he wasn't defending Surefire or Attacking FBMG, he was simply suggesting an alternate solution.

 

 

Actually, I am saying that. The mag interferes with the bolt function when fully loaded. It jams the bolt in the forward locked position and you can not cycle it to chamber a round, it is somehow obstructed from moving by the mag. As far as the mag swelling due to pressure I don't see how that should interfere with the bolt riding over it as the expansion would be sideways, not up where bolt travels. The mag went into the mag well wit no increase in difficulty when it was full compared to empty. Maybe the feed lips are expanding and pushing up. I need to examine this closely with the dust cover off next time. For the time bing I suggest everyone checks their SureFire mags for positive function when fully loaded before relying on them.

Edited April 18, 2008 by Saigaczech

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Wow That's a sweetie!

 

Love the rail and holosight. Is that a dokter (sp)?

[ufcfanvt 0]

U might have one of those bolts tha need to be filed down there is A thred about that I cant rember what it is called my 308 scratches the shell on left side of the mag Make me a deal and i will take your surefires.

 

Sorry, but if you have to remove metal from the BOLT to make the mags work, that is a problem with the mags, not the rifle. If this was coming from FBMG, then they would have gotten roasted in this forum, and rightly so. I know that a lot of people really want a viable alternative to the bunny mags, but don't let your dislike for FBMG cause you to accept major flaws in the Surefire mags. At least hold the competition to the same standards.

 

I don't think he's saying that the BOLT is catching on the MAG.... There is a thread around here about a guy who had his S.308 Failing to Extract because the bolt would gouge the next round because a part of the bolt hadn't been filed down properly. I think he was suggesting that maybe his bolt needed the same tweaking. I know I filed a bit down on my bolt to allow it to cycle smoother...

 

Anyway, he wasn't defending Surefire or Attacking FBMG, he was simply suggesting an alternate solution.

 

 

Actually, I am saying that. The mag interferes with the bolt function when fully loaded. It jams the bolt in the forward locked position and you can not cycle it to chamber a round, it is somehow obstructed from moving by the mag. As far as the mag swelling due to pressure I don't see how that should interfere with the bolt riding over it as the expansion would be sideways, not up where bolt travels. The mag went into the mag well wit no increase in difficulty when it was full compared to empty. Maybe the feed lips are expanding and pushing up. I need to examine this closely with the dust cover off next time. For the time bing I suggest everyone checks their SureFire mags for positive function when fully loaded before relying on them.

 

I have the same problem w/ my surefire mags, but WORSE.

I just got my S.308 and it worked perfectly w/ the factory 8-rd mag. Pop in the 25-rounder and it felt tight. VERY hard to insert the mag so that the catch will secure it in.

I then attempted to cycle the bolt and got about 1/2" before I encountered significant resistance. I'm a stupid caveman, with a stronger back than my mind, so I tried forcing it and it DENTED the top of the first round about 3mm DEEP. Major scratching!

 

I compared my 8-rd mag to the 25-rounders and it looks like the whole round follower base (the plate that sits on the spring) is set 3 to 5 mm higher than the one on the 8rd mags. This looks like the obvious problem to me.

 

I have received, through a middle man, a response from Surefire about this issue that hasn't satisfied me. I will post it and all other related materials here if the issue is not resolved.

[rd99fxdl 17]

I've got Surefires for all my rifles now and haven't had any problems with any of them,with some different capacities and all.

If you check the card that came with them it has info on how to contact them and they are good at getting back if you contact them.

Also,they have a warranty on them if theres any problems with them.

I do defend the mags as I have found them to work quite well in all 3 caliber rifles and have never had any of the problems you seem to be having.

Again,contact them and see whats up,cant hurt.

[Deadeye 325]

U might have one of those bolts tha need to be filed down there is A thred about that I cant rember what it is called my 308 scratches the shell on left side of the mag Make me a deal and i will take your surefires.

 

Sorry, but if you have to remove metal from the BOLT to make the mags work, that is a problem with the mags, not the rifle. If this was coming from FBMG, then they would have gotten roasted in this forum, and rightly so. I know that a lot of people really want a viable alternative to the bunny mags, but don't let your dislike for FBMG cause you to accept major flaws in the Surefire mags. At least hold the competition to the same standards.

 

I don't think he's saying that the BOLT is catching on the MAG.... There is a thread around here about a guy who had his S.308 Failing to Extract because the bolt would gouge the next round because a part of the bolt hadn't been filed down properly. I think he was suggesting that maybe his bolt needed the same tweaking. I know I filed a bit down on my bolt to allow it to cycle smoother...

 

Anyway, he wasn't defending Surefire or Attacking FBMG, he was simply suggesting an alternate solution.

 

 

Actually, I am saying that. The mag infailure to eject problemterferes with the bolt function when fully loaded. It jams the bolt in the forward locked position and you can not cycle it to chamber a round, it is somehow obstructed from moving by the mag. As far as the mag swelling due to pressure I don't see how that should interfere with the bolt riding over it as the expansion would be sideways, not up where bolt travels. The mag went into the mag well wit no increase in difficulty when it was full compared to empty. Maybe the feed lips are expanding and pushing up. I need to examine this closely with the dust cover off next time. For the time bing I suggest everyone checks their SureFire mags for positive function when fully loaded before relying on them.

 

 

Here is the thred I was refering to. search Failure to eject problem

[Saigaczech 9]

My problem is not failure to eject, it is failure to even feed the round. I can't cycle to bolt far enough to get the first round to feed. Ho wcan I eject something that is not even chambered. Are these mags really from SureFire? I have not seen any mention of them on the SureFire website. I am beginning to think it is a Bubba gunsmith invention similar to the infamous Wraithmaker drums. I fail to see a SureFIre logo on the mag itself which makes me question the products origins. SureFire also has great customer service for all their other stuff like their flashlights which makes me suspect these mags even more. And no, I have not had the chance to finish testing them, the weather has been lousy for shooting here in PNW.

Edited May 9, 2008 by Saigaczech

[wigmaster0 0]

Trouble shoot the mags before giving up on them. I went out a week ago and had problems with feeding and jamming. I was using surplus ammo at the time. I went home and polished the ammo and went back out which lessened the amount of jams but I still had a few stove pipes. I then took apart the mag and applied some WD-40 to the inside of the mag body and to the spring. Next I used some cotton to dry off the spring and the inside of the mag body. Now with polished or unpolished surplus ammo I am having no problems whatsoever with jams or stovepipes. Just make sure to wipe off excess lubricant if you try this.

[ufcfanvt 0]

My problem is not failure to eject, it is failure to even feed the round. I can't cycle to bolt far enough to get the first round to feed. Ho wcan I eject something that is not even chambered. Are these mags really from SureFire? I have not seen any mention of them on the SureFire website. I am beginning to think it is a Bubba gunsmith invention similar to the infamous Wraithmaker drums. I fail to see a SureFIre logo on the mag itself which makes me question the products origins. SureFire also has great customer service for all their other stuff like their flashlights which makes me suspect these mags even more. And no, I have not had the chance to finish testing them, the weather has been lousy for shooting here in PNW.

 

 

I second that. The problem we're having is not something that can be overcome w/ lube, reassemble, bad rounds, etc. The mag jams the first round up too far so it presses against the bottom of the bolt and in fact IMPEDES the bolt from even opening.

 

This problem doesn't happen w/ the Saiga-produced 8-rd mags.

 

Does anyone here know anyone who works at SureFire Mags? Unfortunately/Fortunately (I'm not sure which yet) I gave my mags back to my distributor and he isn't able to diagnose at this moment. I'm hoping I can get some good replacements soon. I'd hate to ask for my money back because I really want these mags!

[lollygagger 1]

QUOTE:"They worked fine with 5 round loaded, same for 10 rounds, but when I loaded 20 rounds they jammed the gun to the point that I could not cycle the bolt.. I had to remove the magazine at which time the bolt cycled perfectly by hand, but add the loaded mag and the bolt refused to cycle again an again. I could not even load the first round!!!!!!!. Obviously these mags are in some way out of spec. I very much doubt they would work properly if loaded to their advertised 25 round capacity".

 

"It jams the bolt in the forward locked position and you can not cycle it to chamber a round, it is somehow obstructed from moving by the mag"..."The mag went into the mag well wit no increase in difficulty when it was full compared to empty"..."For the time bing I suggest everyone checks their SureFire mags for positive function when fully loaded before relying on them".

 

ANOTHER QUOTE:"The mag jams the first round up too far so it presses against the bottom of the bolt and in fact IMPEDES the bolt from even opening".

 

AND ANOTHER QUOTE:"I can't cycle to bolt far enough to get the first round to feed".

 

I noted this problem on a FULLY LOADED 25 round SureFire mag.

 

After some examination with care, it became clear that the LAST loaded round had INADEQUATE SPACE to travel when DEPRESSED by the bolt when loaed. This jammed things up, prevented bolt movement and, of course, nothing would feed.

 

The top loaded round needs to be able to be depressed about 1/4". I removed that approximate amount off the BOTTOM of the follower -and, all is fine.

 

This seems to be due to some lack of thought/care in design of the mag (I don't think the guy who worked out the mag cap specs knew the guy that did the BHO feature thing) -fortunately, as you can tell, it is easily corrected.

 

BTW (another problem area not related to the other) if the mag fits TOO TIGHT -this mag, like many others, can have the top of the mag and feed lips become "pinched" inward enough to NARROW the width of the magazine...and stall the follower of a loaded mag in it's upward movement. This, when the spring tension is lessed as it progressively feeds rounds, comes to a point where movement will stall (meaning, unfed rounds will remain in the mag -perhaps, a "loose" round misfeding in the action). You can play around with a loaded mag out of the gun, squeezing the top while stripping off rounds, and see this commonly happen -a good squeeze held on my 25 rounder would result in stalled feed after 16 rounds.

In such a case, if it takes place with the mag in the action -the mag or mag well would need some relief (you could actually remove a little material from the SIDES of the follower, very little...fine steel wool and/or light sanding should do).

 

These mags appear to be made of zytel material. While tough, that material is softer than what is used in the Saiga factory mags and leads to the mag being a bit "squishy".

 

Lastly, the projection, the "lug" on the rear of the mag that serves to latch the mag in place, can be a bit tight. It benefits from a small amount of material being removed -just enough to remove the mold marks on the top & bottom of the lug should do.

 

Hope that helps. It's the major "kinks" here best I can tell -all Magocolgy 101.

 

Lollygagger

 

P.S -"compared my 8-rd mag to the 25-rounders and it looks like the whole round follower base (the plate that sits on the spring) is set 3 to 5 mm higher than the one on the 8rd mags. This looks like the obvious problem to me". -That is because it has a BHO feature that the factory mag does not...it's normal in this respect & application.

Edited May 15, 2008 by lollygagger

[Saigaczech 9]

Thnaks lollygagger, will try it out. I got in touch with surefire and they are willing to exchange the mags but I am not sure that would be a fix. I will test your fix and see if it helps first.

[lollygagger 1]

Saigaczech...

 

I'm pretty confident it will get things working for you. Report back to us.

 

I'd just shorten the follower as indicated and try that. BTW, a stone on a bench grinder or sanding drum on a dremel would make short work of it.

 

(best luck)

 

P.S -If you look at the bottom of the follower, you'll see that it has a "bevel", a angle, on the bottom sides. This evidently serves to help guide the compressing spring loops up into the follower underside...rather than snag on it's sides.

 

While probably not a critical thing, I'd duplicate the bevel after shortening the follower bottom.

Edited May 16, 2008 by lollygagger

[Jack A Sol 2]

I have a 25 rounder that wouldnt feed properly either. My take on it was that the spring was not strong enough for 25 rounds. I simply cut off the bottom five rounds from the mags and converted it to a 20. seems to run fine now, but i havent really shot it a lot.

 

as to fit, they do need to be worn in somewhat. play mag change drills for about a half hour, i'm sure it'll work fine then.

 

 

surefire has just not put a strong enough spring in the thing. woulda been nice to re-inforce the lugs too.

[ufcfanvt 0]

I talked to Surefire a couple weeks back and got a good answer. Apparently I have one of the 1-in-1000 Saiga 308's with a problem on the bottom of the bolt. This is admitted by RAA and supported by them.

Part of the problem is that they build the rifle around the mag that comes with it ...

RAA paid for me to ship it to them. They assured me they would test it with SEVERAL different mags prior to returning the rifle to me.

 

I'll keep you all posted.

[Saigaczech 9]

Still have not been able to test the fix. Weather has been lousy up here. It is frigin June and I am running the heater in the house. Lots of rain and wind too. Grrrrrr. The mags now hand cycle A-Zoom .308 snap caps though. I loaded up the mag with live 308 and added 4 snap caps up top. An encouraging sign.

[Ruffian72 548]

1 0f 1,000 rifles with a bad bolt? 2 rifles/ 2 factory-6Funny BUnny-5 Surefire. Only malfunctions are with Surefire. Gettin 2rds in a row is a miracle. Posted a couple weeks ago my range report. Still haven't heard back from them. Startin to wonder if their customer service/backup of product quality is B.S.

[Vultite 57]

well i have a X39 surefire clear poly mag, not a single problem or jam, the mag does fit very tight and snug, but not too much so, i happen to like it very very much and they do come with lifetime warrenties, so i don't think it would be an issue to get replacements from them for free, next purchase from them will be a metal mag, then i'm going cheap after that and doing saiga specific mags from promag or MM, BTW, there should be some distinctive markings from surefire so you know its theirs, if there isn't, you got fucked.

Edited June 6, 2008 by Vultite

[csspecs 1,987]

Something I noticed when I was building my mags, the bolt on the .308 has a small lug that pushes the top round down, the lug has a sharp corner and is not ramped at all. With the eight round mag the cartridges offer little resistance to downward movement, with more than ten the rounds work like a brake, when rapid downward force is applied they spread and lock into the sidewalls of the magazine.

 

Two ways of getting around this would be:

 

Some how ramp the bottom lug.

 

Replace the magazine spring with one that is more spongy that will allow the rounds to move down without spreading.

[rd99fxdl 17]

The other night i was playing with my new .308 reloading die set and went to find a new bullet to play with to see where the stops were set.I grabbed one of my newer .308 mags and saw the problem you guys are talking about with the bullets getting stuck.

I took apart the mag and an old one and compared the two,the old one works excellent the new one didnt feed quite right.I noticed that the follower fit more snug,like they tightened up the tolerances on it or something.

Anyways,after seeing the subtle difference in the way the new one fit good and the old one was a bit sloppier,I decided to play with it a little and dicovered that filing the front edges of the follower a little tapered towards the bottom to make it float more took care of the bullets not feeding right.

I'm hoping to test that out this weekend but that seemed to do the trick when hand feeding them,slow or fast.

I hadnt shot the new mags I got,just my older ones that did work perfect for me,now its time to try the new ones with the mods.

I thought of this post as I was playing with them,may be worth trying.If it works I can try to post pics if my explanation doesn't make sense.