gunrunner123 0 Posted July 29, 2008 Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 I am interested in finding out what peoples thoughts are on finish for durability etc etc?? Also does someone also know what finish TROMIX uses? Thanks everyone. Thanks Mike D./MD ARMS and thanks cobra for hanging in there........ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gunfixr 76 Posted July 29, 2008 Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 Tromix uses Norrells, which is a bake on resin finish. I use Duracoat, which is a two-part epoxy paint. I haven't got any Norrells finished guns to abuse, but I hear that it is quite durable, many say more durable than Duracoat. Duracoat is also quite durable, the only complaint about it is that it is more susceptible to heat than Norrells is. For most people, this isn't an issue, for some it is, especially on FA guns. There is also Gunkote, Brownells Alumahyde, and some others. Gunkote is supposed to be pretty good, but I have no personal experience with it. I have used Alumahyde, and it's ok, better than Krylon or Rust Oleum, but not as good as the Duracoat or Norrells. There are also a couple of ceramic coatings out there that are supposed to be very durable, but I haven't tried those either. Bluing is basically a chemical conversion surface, and not that durable, except for the old time rust bluing, which is quite durable. Parkerizing, or Phosphate coating, is also a chemical adhesion type coating, putting another metal on the surface, and is primarily to hold oil for protection. It has some protection, but not as much as many think. Nothing is permanent. No matter what you put on it, sooner or later you will wear it off, or break through it with something. Perhaps the only thing that comes close to permanent would be the Tennifer treatment that Glock uses on many of their parts. Tennifer is a trade name for a carbo-nitride hardening process that surface hardens the metal, but much harder and tougher than standard surface hardening. There are other names for it, but it is not used in the US that much, as it produces a lot of caustic wastes that the EPA just doesn't like, so it's hard to set up and run here. It is so dense and hard that it is difficult to even stone, much less cut. It also is almost completely impervious to rust. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Monk 0 Posted July 29, 2008 Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 (edited) Moly resin over parkerized finish is the best. There are technically better finishes, but they are much more expensive to do to an entire rifle or shotgun rather than just small parts. Edited July 29, 2008 by Monk Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kresk 10,063 Posted July 29, 2008 Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 Have noted good success with Brownells Bake On Enamel after Parkerization. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gunfixr 76 Posted July 29, 2008 Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 Parkerization is a good base for most of the spray on finishes. Its roughness gives a lot of surface area for good grip. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nicklebon 27 Posted July 29, 2008 Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 One of the folks over at the ak forum has had some VERY good results with hot bluing over park. It produces a beautiful deep black finish. You can check it out at http://www.theakforum.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=57630 When I actually get off my ass and convert my S12 this is the refinishing route I plan to take. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vultite 57 Posted July 29, 2008 Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 i've heard cerakote is one of the best if not the best out there, but i haven't anything with it to even compare, but i may get my X39 saiga cerakoted........ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunrunner123 0 Posted July 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 Thanks everyone . The reponses have been helpful!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kresk 10,063 Posted July 29, 2008 Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 One of the folks over at the ak forum has had some VERY good results with hot bluing over park. It produces a beautiful deep black finish. Something about that just doesn't sound right. Hot blueing isn't that great protection for the metal, and parking is still subject to scratching. I checked with an experienced gunsmith who said that that combination is used when the base metal of the gun doesn't Parkerize evenly color-wise, then the hot blueing will make it uniformly dark. There's nothing exceptionally protective about that combination. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
quinci956 1 Posted July 29, 2008 Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 I have used Alumahyde and like Gunfxr said, it is good but not as tough as duracoat. I usually use Brownels gun coat. If you are just going with basic black it is the least expensive. It comes in many colors but you have to have a small sprayer or air brush. The black comes in a spray can. I heat the parts for 5 to 10 minutes and spray it. That way it goes on and makes a nice flat finish and hardens fast enough that you don't have to worry so much about runs. Then you put it back in the oven for an hour. Once it cools you can reassemble and your done. The Alumahyde and Duracoat has to have time to cure. Depending on the climate your in it could be a couple of days. Gun coat leaves a sturdy scratch resistant finish that protects and does not let water in. You can apply it directly to the metal after it has been cleaned and the oil is removed. I have also done several guns that were parkerized first. This really makes it stick. I ended up buying a cheap sand blaster from Hardor Freight. I use the fine grit sand and sand blast the entire gun which makes the metal a little rougher so the coating will have a better grip. Also if you have any pitting from previous rust damage, this coating hides it pretty well. Most of the finishes mentioned are very good. You just have to find what fits your budget and which ones you can apply at home without buying special equipment. You can also test whichever one you get on a scrap piece of metal to get the hang of it before you try to learn on your gun. I did and I was not as upset getting a run on an old peice of pipe. That is how I came up with the pre-heat option by running a test before hand. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aubie515 2 Posted July 29, 2008 Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 My .02 would go to Norrells or KG Gunkote. I'd go thermal cure over air cured finishes anyday. The big advantage that Duracoat has is they offer so many more color options and because it's air cured you can do various camo patterns. As some have already stated...park and thermal cure is the best combo. Robar's NP3 is tough stuff too. It really depends on what type of finish you want. I would say the best finish IMO is hard chrome. It's does not have that bling bling look too it...more of a brushed stainless, but it's super tough. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted July 29, 2008 Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 Norrell moly resin is the shit when it comes to heat and chemical resistance. I don't think there is anything out there that will beat it in those two areas. Even when you weld directly on the finish, it doesn't bubble up or come off around the weld. It will also handle a 7+ hour MEK soak. I don't think it's abrasion resistance is as good as Duracoat, but it doesn't chip like Duracoat either. Norrell's also has the advantage of not filling in even the lightest engraving. However, if you have scratches in the metal before you coat it, Norrell's won't fill it in and hide your sloppy work either. Moly Resin over park is nice too, but the problem with parking is that you have to have all the oil off the gun, or it doesn't work. On a used gun that has seen a bunch of oil, it wants to keep bleeding out from around the rivets and the scope rail, so no matter how much you swab it down and clean it, the oil just keeps creeping out especially when you heat the part. The Norrells doesn't care....it goes on, sticks, and holds up even if some oil creeps out from the seams. I don't expect anyone to believe that.....until you try it. Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
belt fed frog 56 Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 (edited) what Tony said, i have been using Norell moly resin since it came out , it is tough shit , 60 days in salt water not a problem , heat to 800 degrees not a problem , it doesnt chip, it will not crack even if you hit it with a ball peen hammer and unlike other finishes it contains moly disulfide so it is self lubricating and wears better than iron. phenolic resin, moly disufilde and colorant. Warning dont use the wife`s oven it does have a certian Pong to it smells like a burning Turbant (DDR National Car) :eek: :lolol: Edited July 30, 2008 by belt fed frog Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gunfixr 76 Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 I haven't had a problem with Duracoat chipping, unless the prep wasn't good enough. I also haven't had a problem with a little oil seepage ruining everything either. I haven't tried the 8hr. MEK soak, so can't say about that. I am planning on getting some Norrells to try out, soon as I can come up with a place to cure it. I think each of the finishes has its own pros and cons, and depending on what you're looking for will decide which you choose. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Big +1 on the MolyResin. Only down side is less colors to choose from, but really, is there anything but Black ( : Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gunfixr 76 Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 I've gotten bored with black. It's so, well, common. Everybody has a black gun. What's so special about that ?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vultite 57 Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 I've gotten bored with black. It's so, well, common. Everybody has a black gun. What's so special about that ?? well,u can finish it pink or rainbow if you'd like, but then that may be too speical Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rifle Dynamics 20 Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 We have been using Norrells exclusively for 2 years, everything Tony said has been my experience as well. I refinished one of my machineguns with Norrells over fresh park, I didn't think it would survive the heat but 3-4k rnds later it doesn't look any different. Norrells is good stuff Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kahrak 2 Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 A good hard chrome is pretty hard to beat as far as durability goes, most people just don't want a silver tactical shotgun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GTOShootr 0 Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Norrell moly resin is the shit when it comes to heat and chemical resistance. I don't think there is anything out there that will beat it in those two areas. Even when you weld directly on the finish, it doesn't bubble up or come off around the weld. It will also handle a 7+ hour MEK soak. I don't think it's abrasion resistance is as good as Duracoat, but it doesn't chip like Duracoat either. Norrell's also has the advantage of not filling in even the lightest engraving. However, if you have scratches in the metal before you coat it, Norrell's won't fill it in and hide your sloppy work either. Moly Resin over park is nice too, but the problem with parking is that you have to have all the oil off the gun, or it doesn't work. On a used gun that has seen a bunch of oil, it wants to keep bleeding out from around the rivets and the scope rail, so no matter how much you swab it down and clean it, the oil just keeps creeping out especially when you heat the part. The Norrells doesn't care....it goes on, sticks, and holds up even if some oil creeps out from the seams. I don't expect anyone to believe that.....until you try it. Tony No Ion Bond for Tarans S12? I'm thinking that would be a very expensive job and not really necessary if Norrell is that good. Ion Bond just sounds really bulletproof. I'd like to have my pistols done with it. The best finish I've had on my pistols is a Tripp hard chrome job. They don't do it anymore. I also imagine that would be expensive for a shotgun sized item. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 The best finish I've had on my pistols is a Tripp hard chrome job. They don't do it anymore. I also imagine that would be expensive for a shotgun sized item. I would think, "judging" from your handle, that Hugger Orange/Carousel Red or Limefire Green would be good choices! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sKott 26 Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Norrell's Moly Resin... This is really good stuff. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gunfixr 76 Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 I looked at Ion Bonds website, freakin' cool stuff. It takes special machinery to apply it, though, so don't think I'll be offering it anytime soon. I also looked into Cerakote. Decent color selection. I might play with that here in the near future. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sKott 26 Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 A good hard chrome is pretty hard to beat as far as durability goes, most people just don't want a silver tactical shotgun. I've heard about (or seen firearms platers that offer) Black chrome... is it the same as Hard chrome? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gunfixr 76 Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 There is a black chrome that is not the same as hard chrome. There may also be a black hard chrome. There is a Titanium Nitride typ of coating that is a very dark grey that is used on tools, much like what Ion Bond sells. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
quinci956 1 Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 Norrell moly resin is the shit when it comes to heat and chemical resistance. I don't think there is anything out there that will beat it in those two areas. Even when you weld directly on the finish, it doesn't bubble up or come off around the weld. It will also handle a 7+ hour MEK soak. I don't think it's abrasion resistance is as good as Duracoat, but it doesn't chip like Duracoat either. Norrell's also has the advantage of not filling in even the lightest engraving. However, if you have scratches in the metal before you coat it, Norrell's won't fill it in and hide your sloppy work either. Moly Resin over park is nice too, but the problem with parking is that you have to have all the oil off the gun, or it doesn't work. On a used gun that has seen a bunch of oil, it wants to keep bleeding out from around the rivets and the scope rail, so no matter how much you swab it down and clean it, the oil just keeps creeping out especially when you heat the part. The Norrells doesn't care....it goes on, sticks, and holds up even if some oil creeps out from the seams. I don't expect anyone to believe that.....until you try it. Tony Is there a website that this can be ordered from and do they have instructions on the best way to apply it? I would like to try it on a few up coming projects. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
belt fed frog 56 Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 (edited) here you go all the info you need is there http://www.johnnorrellarms.com/ and the 8 oz. goes a long way 5-7 guns with a nice thick coat on the exterior Edited July 31, 2008 by belt fed frog Quote Link to post Share on other sites
quinci956 1 Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 here you go all the info you need is there http://www.johnnorrellarms.com/ and the 8 oz. goes a long way 5-7 guns with a nice thick coat on the exterior Thanks for the quick response. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
duke77 0 Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 I have used Alumahyde and like Gunfxr said, it is good but not as tough as duracoat. I usually use Brownels gun coat. If you are just going with basic black it is the least expensive. It comes in many colors but you have to have a small sprayer or air brush. The black comes in a spray can. I heat the parts for 5 to 10 minutes and spray it. That way it goes on and makes a nice flat finish and hardens fast enough that you don't have to worry so much about runs. Then you put it back in the oven for an hour. Once it cools you can reassemble and your done. The Alumahyde and Duracoat has to have time to cure. Depending on the climate your in it could be a couple of days. Gun coat leaves a sturdy scratch resistant finish that protects and does not let water in. You can apply it directly to the metal after it has been cleaned and the oil is removed. I have also done several guns that were parkerized first. This really makes it stick. I ended up buying a cheap sand blaster from Hardor Freight. I use the fine grit sand and sand blast the entire gun which makes the metal a little rougher so the coating will have a better grip. Also if you have any pitting from previous rust damage, this coating hides it pretty well.Most of the finishes mentioned are very good. You just have to find what fits your budget and which ones you can apply at home without buying special equipment. You can also test whichever one you get on a scrap piece of metal to get the hang of it before you try to learn on your gun. I did and I was not as upset getting a run on an old peice of pipe. That is how I came up with the pre-heat option by running a test before hand. I just ordered a spray can of Aluma-Hyde II to cover the bottom of the receiver where the original cover plate used to be. Would you recommend I sand the spot that I'm going to paint first or simply degrease it first? Also, what would you recommend I use as a degreaser? Is there something I can pickup at the local hardware store or AutoZone? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gr8santini 13 Posted August 22, 2008 Report Share Posted August 22, 2008 I just ordered a spray can of Aluma-Hyde II to cover the bottom of the receiver where the original cover plate used to be. Would you recommend I sand the spot that I'm going to paint first or simply degrease it first? Also, what would you recommend I use as a degreaser? Is there something I can pickup at the local hardware store or AutoZone? For what it's worth, I've had good results using brake cleaner from AutoZone or Wal-Mart. Make sure you get the kind that says "leaves no residue" on the can. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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