monomonk 0 Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 The box of South African .308 was so heavy I could barely lift it but the UPS lady brought it to my back door. Part of the weight was the heavy duty, military green metal box with carrying handles and latches. One side of the box was closed with a wire embedded in a metal seal (looking somwhat like the wax document seals from days of yore.) The metal box, with gasket sealing against moisture, would protect the ammo against some very harsh blows. The ammo itself consists of seven units of 140 rounds each (980 rounds total) securely sealed in heavy-duty plastic packs with their own built in carrying handles. To open the package, you pull off a tie on the front of the package. No moisture could get into these thoroughly sealed packs. The ammo itself comes in small boxes of 20 rounds each. The c. late 1970's/early 1980's FMJ ammo looks to be in like new condition, as one would expect from the packaging. The ammo cost $147 for 980 rounds, plus $17 for delivery (in three days) from Aim in Ohio. This seems like a good buy to me. Monomonk Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aka108 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 (edited) Been shooting some India 308 recently. Not bad stuff. $69 plus shipping from Widener's Shooting Supply in Johnson City, Tenn. 640 rd in metal ammo box. Edited January 20, 2005 by aka108 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tokageko 8 Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 Recently got a 1280 round b-... crate of South African 308. Talk about heavy. Thick wooden box, oil covered tin inside it, at least it had rope handles on the sides. It shoots very well from my experience. I was at the range today with my 308... didn't have any paper targets, I was using organge clays at about 125 yards. I think it was because of the cold.. I put three rounds through the center of one without breaking it apart. The fourth one must have been a bit off and shattered the rest of it. That was about the best "group" of the day though. I tried doing it again, but couldn't duplicate the results. Otherwise I would have carefully brought that clay pigeon home and taken a picture of it. Oh well, I geuss I'll have to wait for another opportunity to show off my incredible shooting skills. ; ) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 Tokageko: i dont think it was the cold. I used to break out the centers of skeet with arrows at 30 yards in the warmer temperatures when I was younger, and once in a blue moon i will shoot them with a rifle like you were, and will get the same thing happening. you cant even touch the ridge around the center of the clay, and not all of them do it. if anything the cold makes them more brittle, so you must have been dead center on them to not break it with three shots. nice shooting Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RooK 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 I'll never touch the Indian surplus, heard too many horror stories about lack of QC. More than one rifle has been blown up by the stuff. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunslinger308 0 Posted January 23, 2005 Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 I like portugese the best(the 200rnd battle packs are good for storage or stashing in a fire fight). Tried some Hirtenberger that was good and hot( supply probably dried up). Heard bad about Indian and south africa. I don't know much about Austrailian except it is the most expensive of the available 308 surplus. I found some US 308 at the gun show but it was 20$ for 50-60rnds in a bandoleer, on strippers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mauser1 0 Posted January 23, 2005 Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 Dont use that crappy india .308. I bought 1000 rounds, and within 200 rounds I had a bad one. It must of had a low power charge. The bullet lodged in the barrel. Luckily it was just past the breech and the next shell wouldnt load all the way. Had it gone two inches further the next round could have chamber and I would had fired. Who knows what would off happened then. Serious injury or maybe death???? Kept the bullet as a good luck charm and through the rest away!!!!!! Please, for your own safety, do not buy those unsafe bullets!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted January 23, 2005 Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 Just thinking about *THAT* is VERY SCARY!!!!! were you not able to tell it was a dud round?? still went BANG as loud as the rest? or???? Share that situation with the folks here at home... if you can cite specifics... it might save one of us in the future if SIMILAR happens... if ya know what I mean... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted January 23, 2005 Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 Feed your Indian .308 thru a Spanish mauser. They are running at $119.00 and chambered in .308. It should be apparent if you get a squib -NO muzzleblast! G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
verdejt 0 Posted January 23, 2005 Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 I bought some of that Indian stuff (640 rnds) and have gone through about 250 rounds without a single hitch. The only problem I have found with it is that it seems not to be as accurate as commercial stuff. I shoot Winchester Ballistic Silvertips (150Gr) and get exceptional grouping. With the surplus they seem to a little wilder. Of course it was a little cold when I was shooting but still for just plinking and making the KAAABOOOOM that I'm so fond of it's great. After all it is Mil Surplus and not made for accuracy but for volume. I haven't tried any other surplus stuff yet. I am also unclear how you might miss a squib round. I have had them in the past with my .45 ACP and I can usually tell right away. I also would like more specifics on the misfire Mauser1 experienced. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
duffman 1 Posted January 23, 2005 Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 Stay far, far away from the Indian .308 stuff. Do a web search. Numerous reports (some with photos) of the dangers of this ammo. Ain't worth the "killer" deal it can be had at. Just not worth saving a couple cents per round. Not only dangerous to the shooter, pretty rough on firearms too. South African is a damn fine ammo, seems to be reappearing after becoming quite scarce for awhile. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chips 0 Posted January 23, 2005 Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 i always bought the south african 308. but the last time i bought it, the guy said that he was almost out, and that would be it for the south african ammo... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
k_dawg 0 Posted January 23, 2005 Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 I personally have seen the after-effects of Indian surplus ammo! Luckily for the guy, while it destroyed his rifle ( surplus mauser ), he was relatively uninjured. If he had been firing it in a SA, instead of a bolt.. it could have been worse. there is a difference in cheap ammo that may not be as accurate, or full power.. and cheap ammo that is dangerious! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mauser1 0 Posted January 23, 2005 Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 When i was shooting the bad round sounded exactly the same. It even felt the same the best i can recall. I was shooting my Saiga through a scope, so i didnt see muzzle flash anyway.All i know is that i pulled the triggerand just heard a click. So I thought I had a dud round and cycled another round. I then noticed that the round did not go in all the way and the bolt didnt completely close. I thought surely a bullet didnt stick in the barrel!!! So i took apart the gun and sure enough, no light through the barrel. WOW, i was lucky. It was harder then hell to knock it out of the barrel. Got some good ammo after that and everything was fine then. No more problems to date. The only thing I can think that would cause this is a low powder charge?Its just hard for me to believe that there was enough powder charge to cycle the round,but not push the bullet all the way through. If you have any of this ammo I would recommend throwing it away immediately!! Saving a couple of bucks isnt worth serious injury is it??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted January 23, 2005 Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 WOW.... that *IS* a pretty scary deal...... NO... saving a few bucks is certainly not worth having your head blown off... Or worse... your eyes blown out.. or half your face ripped up... etc.... ( thats not a knife... its a part of the barrel... note the muzzlebreak to the left of the poor lil smileys head! LOL) Thanks for the warnings!!!! Hopefully ALL heed this!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
verdejt 0 Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 Well in that case I guess I will break down all the ammo that I have left and keep the components and reload with new powder using the same projectile,casing, primer. Anybody have a good recipe for .308 with 147Gr bullet? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tokageko 8 Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 Well, of course there are good recipes... it's just a question of whether what's good for mine will be good for yours. ; ) I've posted on the subject of reloading a few times, both in here and in the General Weapons forum. Just be careful alright? Don't load anything too spectacularly high pressured with those Indian cases. Hell, I'd stick to the minimums with that stuff, just to be on the safe side. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 Could you just WEIGH the cartridges, and if any are noticeably lighter, those are the bad ones??? Might save all the time pulling them... Although... reloading them will give you guaranteed consistency in your loads! Hopefully, 100% fire rate too! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tokageko 8 Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 yeah, you're right Indy, but pulling bullets and changing the powder would be so much more fun Quote Link to post Share on other sites
verdejt 0 Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 Well I pulled 10 of them apart and what I found was they varied in charge weight from 43.1 - 45.1 grains. Too much of a difference for my liking. Also inspecting the projectiles I did find that all 10 had some sort of a tar like substance around the base of the projectile. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tokageko 8 Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 The tar is used as a sealant to keep moisture out. Personally I prefer a light laquer, although the wax that the swiss use is pretty cool too. Either way, I'm thinking of doing the same; I have a lot of time to kill and the weather is crappy. I was over at cetmerifles.com, and found a rather good article on the Indian ammo. Apparently Perro (founder) took it upon himself to test a case of the stuff. he ended up with an extreme spread of 6 grains among 3 different type of powder! I don't remember off hand what he found regarding the bullets, but I'd be will to bet the diameters vary more than normal. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
verdejt 0 Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 I too read the article and that is what led me to take the action I have chosen. I emailed him and asked since the stuff I have is dated 1998 could it not have these problems. He wouldn't comment except to say it all sucked. I did weigh the bullets and they varied from 147.1 up to 149 grains. I also found the powder variance in just 10 rounds. Since it is so bitterly cold here in New Hampshire I have decided to break down the rest of the 640 and reload them. I'm still looking for some good recipes for 147gr jacketed. Any info is greatly appreciated. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lollygagger 1 Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 DON'T GET THE INDIAN AMMO!!! the reports of problems with it abound. It is seductive in that it looks real purty. The Indian stuff is KNOWN to be with irregular loads and irregular mfg'ing specs. I'm not sure I'd put this stuff thru ANY gun -much less a semi-auto. Lollygagger (I've got a meathead buddy that loves the stuff, 'cause it's cheap & purty!!! He has also blown up a gun in the past enjoying the same with other ammo...45acp, at the time.) The SA, Port & Aussie stuff is fine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tokageko 8 Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 (edited) My saiga 308 loves a 40 grain charge of IMR4895, with a 147-150 grain bullet. Low recoil. Tight, consistant grouping. Try it at your own risk, of course. ; ) Note: that's pretty close to a minimum load, so if you change the powder charge, probably no more than half a grain at a time, given the thickness/quality of this brass, and only go up. Edited January 24, 2005 by Tokageko Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Servo77 0 Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 The box of South African .308 was so heavy I could barely lift it but the UPS lady brought it to my back door. Part of the weight was the heavy duty, military green metal box with carrying handles and latches. One side of the box was closed with a wire embedded in a metal seal (looking somwhat like the wax document seals from days of yore.) The metal box, with gasket sealing against moisture, would protect the ammo against some very harsh blows. The ammo itself consists of seven units of 140 rounds each (980 rounds total) securely sealed in heavy-duty plastic packs with their own built in carrying handles. To open the package, you pull off a tie on the front of the package. No moisture could get into these thoroughly sealed packs. The ammo itself comes in small boxes of 20 rounds each. The c. late 1970's/early 1980's FMJ ammo looks to be in like new condition, as one would expect from the packaging. The ammo cost $147 for 980 rounds, plus $17 for delivery (in three days) from Aim in Ohio. This seems like a good buy to me. Monomonk Does AIM have a web address I can order from....course I am in Ohio, so even a tele number would be nice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jtoddellis 2 Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 http://www.aimsurplus.com/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
k_dawg 0 Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 you know.. i used to hunt around for the "best deals".. but cheaperthandirt.com has had "free" shipping for orders over $150.. that I go with them almost all the time now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mitchb 0 Posted January 26, 2005 Report Share Posted January 26, 2005 Hey GOB where did you find the spanish mauser in 308 for $120??? -Mitch Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted January 26, 2005 Report Share Posted January 26, 2005 Mitchb-- There were 2 seperate ads in the current shotgun news. I left my copy at work, but I will bring it home tomorrow and post the info here. G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tokageko 8 Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 I know it's probably been said before, I think it was me actually, but: Be careful with the 308 Spanish mausers. If you get one that's based on a model 98 action (cocks on opening), it should be fine. However, if it's a 93 or a 95 (cocks on closing), you could run into problems using normal ammo. In mine, the only surplus ammo that did not give high pressure signs was the Australian. If you hand load, stick to light bullets and low powder charages. Just my 2 cents. Oh, and before anyone says it: There is no goddamned difference between 308 Winchester and 7.62 NATO. I'd be happy to explain why if anyone is interested, but for now I'll spare you the boring details. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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