The MD-20 Product Satisfaction Quiz

[Twinsen 86]

Important Note

This post was started by Twinsen. But I (Mike Davidson) noticed 3 people said their drum wasn't reliable. And 4 said something disappointed them about the drum. But not one of these people gave a reason for either. I would really think these people would want to elaborate a little. Especially those that said it wasn't reliable for them. I have no doubt any unreliability can be EASILY adjusted so they are. And I find it VERY ODD 3 people would select that without an attempt to get it worked out. It is likely that only the spring tension needs adjusted or something like that. I will let this thread and poll go on but if you want to state it is unreliable or you are disappointed in any way I am requiring you to post your reasons and experience. If you don't your vote will be removed. This is in an attempt only to keep trouble makers at bay and those that wish to try and hurt my product from doing so without a reason or with a chance for me to address any issue. Thanks! MikeD

 

Well HELL! I screwed something up when removing the votes described above and it removed every single vote. Sorry about that.

 

At the time there was 28 voters. I remember what the first 2 questions were but don't on the last question. I doubt the people that have voted will be able to vote again, sorry. I did remove the 3 "unreliable" and the 4 "disappointed" and if the people that selected those what to come back and explain why I will gladly put them back. Nobody will jump your shit. But if you have a problem or disappointment I want to here about it. Thanks, MikeD

 

Everything below in this post is unaltered and by Twinsen.

 

There's too much rumoring and not enough facts floating around. If you have an MD-20, please take this quick quiz so that people can quickly see how people that actually own one feel about it. I'm talking the product here, not Mike Davidson, not delays, not the variance of mag latches from gun to gun, and not how Izhmash keeps changing the design a little bit and making aftermarket parts harder to work with ALL the versions.

 

I think leaving comments would be a good idea too, if you have the time.

 

 

Here's mine: I went into a competition with my Saiga-12, and having fired it only with 3 DRAM birdshot and my buckshot reloads, I trusted it totally. It jammed 20 out of 20 times in that competition. It will not cycle anything under 3 DRAMS in my gun, the spring's pressure upwards on my bolt creates too much friction for those light loads to work. In my Saiga-12 using the stock 5 round magazine or 10 round AGPs, 2-3/4 DRAM cycles fine. But I made a big step forward, I stopped buying 2-3/4 DRAM. I'm not talking about 2-3/4" shells, I'm talking about DRAMs, the power of the shells in terms of old black powder. All that bulkpack Walmart cheapo stuff, that is 3 DRAM, good to go. Winchester AA Light Loads are 2-3/4 DRAM I believe, they're less than 3 DRAM anyway. WinAA Heavy Loads are 3 DRAM and cost the same. So are the Win AA Grey Handicap loads that are marked 1300 FPS, those work too for me. All this stuff can be found at Walmart, and those AA loads can be found pretty much anywhere that sells shotshells. That light stuff is probably worthlessly weak anyway, and more balls in a shotshell for no extra dough sounds like a good deal. I can't believe I was firing such weak stuff.

 

So my drum doesn't work with the super light stuff, but it does with that weak bulkpack crap, and everything heavier that I've tried. It loves my handloads. And knowing that the gun has to keep up with the action speed on the last round, yet be strong enough to load all 20 rounds, this is no surprise to me. It's actually very surprising to me that it can load all this ammo reliably. Mine has jammed 0 times using 3 DRAM or better. I think that's incredible! Imagine all the weight of 20 shotshells. That's like 1.5oz X 20 rounds, 30oz. That's like two pounds of ammo. Your 30 round AR-15 mags aren't loading near that amount of weight. And it has to load different weights, at different powers, in a circle, and then try to slam them into a hole barely larger than the shell, so they need to be at a very consistent feed angle... crazy. Anyway, enjoy the poll. Hopefully the results will be interesting.

 

 

I am in no way affiliated with Mike Davidson, but I bought a drum from him. I'd appreciate it you would answer honestly, and not lie to make the MD-20 look better than it is, or lie to make it look bad. Good luck trying to make it look better though!

 

Edit: before anyone did the poll, I edited a question to make it make sense.

Edited January 12, 2009 by Mike Davidson

[MikeD 541]

Twinsen, I was thinking of putting togther a poll as well. I might add some questions to this one.

 

Also... try droping the factory spring setting on the drum from 3 revs (empty) down to 2 revs (empty). That will probably do the trick for the light loads. It should drop the spring tension enough.

 

The drum will operate the very most low and medium brass on 2 revs (empty). At 2 revs the drum is even easier to load!

[Twinsen 86]

Hey, I forgot about that! What a dumbass. It's okay though, I'm done with the super light stuff anyway. I had very little of it, considering bulk pack is 3 DRAM. Besides, on this setting here I've cycled high brass stuff with no problems, and I like it that way. As far as I'm concerned, it's not broken and I'm not fixing it.

 

I could only put in 3 questions, I had more.

-How long did fitting take?

-Did fitting bother you?

-Would you suggest it to others?

-Are you satisfied with the apparent strength of the plastic?

 

You might have admin powers in your section of the forum that I don't though.

[defendr200 0]

Great product, absolutely love the drum. The only down side would be all the money I've been spending on shells lately . Thanks Mike

Edited January 11, 2009 by defendr200

[patriot 7,197]

Second best thing I could have bought for the Saiga. Tony's conversion being the first, but just barely Mike and Tony should really get together and team up. What a combo!

 

 

My guess is this will become another Tony and Mike are GREAT thread! At least, I hope so

 

 

Don't forget, the evil terrorist snowmen will be returning smuggling Tannerite in their bellies...................

[WHITE 3 GOLF 2]

Fuck, I think my only complaint is that I don't make enough to feed my S-17, and yes Mike and Tony are GRRRRREAT. No I have no affiliation with either but was smart enough to do my homework and order from the best. Thanks Mike for the wonderful drum and will be waiting patiently for my second (dumbass me forgot to order more than one first go around).

[mscottrogers 56]

My complaint is that I need to come up with a recipe for reloading AA shells that my drums like. I was loading AA hulls at 1 1/4 heavy and I was out cycling, so I dropped to 1 1/4 light #4 and that seams to run nicely. Now I have to work on buck shot reloads. No problem with the drum, just my reloads. I didn't even have to trim anything, fit nice and snug.

 

For all you guys throwing away your shells, you should pick up a good shotshell reloader thats in expensive. I've saved tons of cash already reloading heavy stuff and buck. The light stuff for skeet and such is real close. It lets me go blast 250 rounds for about 40 bucks on the heavy stuff. pretty reasonable.

I found a pnseness warren that I like for 150. Its already paid for itself.

[Surly 11]

The fitting didn't bother me (my answer), but it bothered my wife...I did it while she was watching something on the TV.

 

It does cycle everything my AGP's can, as I can't quite afford to do a drum dump with buckshot or slugs yet.

 

I ordered 2 drums (for now) and my only complaint is keeping them loaded.

 

-How long did fitting take?

-Did fitting bother you?

-Would you suggest it to others?

-Are you satisfied with the apparent strength of the plastic?

1- About 20 minutes.

2- It bothered my wife.

3- I already have numerous times.

4- I haven't fucked one up and I can break an anvil with a rubber mallet.

Edited January 15, 2009 by Surly

[bigcraig 0]

My drum has functioned flawlessly, ZERO complaints from me.

 

However, I would MUCH rather have Mike D. bring his magwell to the masses along with a better 10rd mag.

[BobAsh 582]

Works great in my gun. No problems, solid well-designed product.

[joelrod47 373]

Took my TROMIX shorty to a gun show here in Little Rock today..............Hung one of my MD drums on it..........

 

Kinda hard to walk around the show for all the bricks people were shitting after seeing TROMIX / MD Arms perfection !!

 

 

 

The drums work great for me, too......!!!

Edited January 11, 2009 by Jeaux E

[MikeD 541]

Important Note

I noticed 3 people said their drum wasn't reliable. And 4 said something disappointed them about the drum. But not one of these people gave a single reason for either. I would really think these people would want to elaborate a little. Especially those that said it wasn't reliable for them. I have no doubt any unreliability can be EASILY adjusted so they are. And I find it VERY ODD 3 people would select that without an attempt to get it worked out. It is likely that only the spring tension needs adjusted or something like that. I will let this thread and poll go on but if you want to state it is unreliable or you are disappointed in any way I am requiring you to post your reasons and experience. If you don't your vote will be removed. This is in an attempt only to keep trouble makers at bay and those that wish to try and hurt my product from doing so without a reason or with a chance for me to address any issue. Thanks! MikeD

 

Well HELL! I screwed something up when removing the votes described above and it removed every single vote. Sorry about that.

 

At the time there was 28 voters. I remember what the first 2 questions were but don't on the last question. I doubt the people that have voted will be able to vote again, sorry. I did remove the 3 "unreliable" and the 4 "disappointed" and if the people that selected those what to come back and explain why I will gladly put them back. Nobody will jump your shit. But if you have a problem or disappointment I want to here about it. Thanks, MikeD

[jrance@iacwds.com 716]

Hey! Somebody (Mike!) erased my "I had to order 2+ right off the bat". I have had nothing but efficient fire from my drums. No problem firing anything I feed it. Totally satisfied with the awesome product that was always considered to be one more piece of "vaporware" until last year. Great job and a huge THANK YOU!

 

1911

[Azrial 1,091]

Important Note

I noticed 3 people said their drum wasn't reliable. And 4 said something disappointed them about the drum. But not one of these people gave a single reason for either. I would really think these people would want to elaborate a little. ... Thanks, MikeD

 

Mike, I was one of the three that said that I had some reliability issues with the drum, I also said that was very satisfied with its quality. But if you want elaboration, here it is.

 

I had put 60 rounds of Wali-World Federal #8 shot, 1 1/8 .oz, 3 dram loads through my S12. In the process of this I would experience one jam per drum. My gun is 100% with my AGPs. I have about 300 rounds through the gun in general. I had done everything to my gun in the reliability service thread suggested by you and Tony of Tromix, plus incorporated the suggestions of Simpson J Cat, most likely the originator of the bolt modifications with a far earlier thread here at the board. I had not ramped the barrel as suggested, I think, by you and e-Tac, due to the fact that my gun had the barrel set back in the trunion and I was pondering my solution for this problem.

 

I do not think that this problem is particularly significant, this was a problem with one load on a new drum, ergo I had seen no reason to bitch about it. It may have gotten better in time as the gun broke in or with a different load. I was not very concerned at that point and expected to test further, that is until my S12 and drum was stolen.

 

I listed what I did in honesty, I think that you are building a good product and I admire your dedication to customer service. On the other hand, I did not think it was a helpful to simply pump sunshine up your butt.

 

Mike, Let me save you years of frustration and a life as a chronic alcoholic!

 

I seriously doubt that you will ever make all of your drums 100% reliable with all of the Saiga-12s out there and all of the 2 3/4" inch (ha-ha) loads in existence, past present and future. All you can hope for is a highly functional drum that works well with the majority of loads for the majority of people. If you do that you will have exceeded the performance of the majority of firearm drum magazines in existence, some of which were developed by various military. ($$$)

 

So, I have no bitches at this point, unless you have some kind of stolen drum insurance!

[MikeD 541]

Important Note

I noticed 3 people said their drum wasn't reliable. And 4 said something disappointed them about the drum. But not one of these people gave a single reason for either. I would really think these people would want to elaborate a little. ... Thanks, MikeD

 

Mike, I was one of the three that said that I had some reliability issues with the drum, I also said that was very satisfied with its quality. But if you want elaboration, here it is.

 

I had put 60 rounds of Wali-World Federal #8 shot, 1 1/8 .oz, 3 dram loads through my S12. In the process of this I would experience one jam per drum. My gun is 100% with my AGPs. I have about 300 rounds through the gun in general. I had done everything to my gun in the reliability service thread suggested by you and Tony of Tromix, plus incorporated the suggestions of Simpson J Cat, most likely the originator of the bolt modifications with a far earlier thread here at the board. I had not ramped the barrel as suggested, I think, by you and e-Tac, due to the fact that my gun had the barrel set back in the trunion and I was pondering my solution for this problem.

 

I do not think that this problem is particularly significant, this was a problem with one load on a new drum, ergo I had seen no reason to bitch about it. It may have gotten better in time as the gun broke in or with a different load. I was not very concerned at that point and expected to test further, that is until my S12 and drum was stolen.

 

I listed what I did in honesty, I think that you are building a good product and I admire your dedication to customer service. On the other hand, I did not think it was a helpful to simply pump sunshine up your butt.

 

Mike, Let me save you years of frustration and a life as a chronic alcoholic!

 

I seriously doubt that you will ever make all of your drums 100% reliable with all of the Saiga-12s out there and all of the 2 3/4" inch (ha-ha) loads in existence, past present and future. All you can hope for is a highly functional drum that works well with the majority of loads for the majority of people. If you do that you will have exceeded the performance of the majority of firearm drum magazines in existence, some of which were developed by various military. ($$$)

 

So, I have no bitches at this point, unless you have some kind of stolen drum insurance!

Thanks Azrial. I don't want anyone to blow smoke up my ass! That wouldn't help anyone. I'll add the unreliable abck as your vote. Can I ask what kind of faliure it was? I am betting an fte. If so I am also betting that dropping the spring by a full or half rev would have cleaned that up.

 

That really sucks about your gun and drum. Did they catch the theif? Did they steal anything else? I hope it was from a vehicle and not your home. Have you replaced your shotgun yet? I really wish that wouldn't have happened because I 99.9% sure a spring adjustment would have solved it. I would have rather proved that out of the same gun and drum you had the problems in.

 

I do agree completely that NOTHING in this world is perfect. I am already happy comparing my drum as is to many others. Hell, even some stick mags for that matter. Anyone ever get a 50rd 10/22 promag to work right? I know A LOT of drums have a bad reputation and feel my drum is better than some of the "good" ones already.

 

A lot of people thought it couldn't be done. Just like a double stack 12ga mag. Well, that is 100% doable as well I am am going to prove that also!!!! Sorry again about the loss.

[Azrial 1,091]

I was joking about the "stolen drum insurance!"

 

No, the thieves are still at large and I do not expect a resolution anytime soon. They could surprise me though! But as long as you keep your contact information current, firearms stay hot forever on NCIC! Of course, I intend to.

 

Thanks for your kind words!

[BuffetDestroyer 969]

I only ordered one due to lack of fundage! If available at less than $400+ (like those on Gun Broker), I would buy another when they become available!

 

Mike made an outstanding product and if you have one out of 15 types of ammo that doesn't work properly, use the other 14! If I use ancient paper shells from the 1800's (an exaggerated example), I am not blaming "reliability" issues on my drum!

 

I have three Saigas: 1 is a Tromix conversion and it feeds high and low brass in the MD20 without any problem; 2 is a former 24" that I converted myself and chopped to 18.5". I opened the gas ports, but it still is finicky on setting 1 with light loads with any mag. My solution: change the fucking gas setting! It works perfect with homogeneous loadouts on the appropriate setting. The last is NIB, so I am not messing with it.

 

Unfortunately we get Saigas that don't have gas ports (see the post in the S12 forum today), 1 gas port (instead of three or four - same post cited) and that can't be blamed on the drum.

 

I understand that some folks get all excited about a new product they ordered and then their "favorite load" doesn't cycle 100%, but Mike has been forthright on everything and it is likely something that you can fix by winding the drum spring, or adjusting your gas block/gas ports! If it is your Saiga that is not reliable, once again, that is out of Mike's control.

 

The same complaints happened with AGP mags. AGP pretty much stopped communicating with us because of the people that complained them out of our forum. Mike has been a trooper throughout this whole thing and has provided a product that is the best on the market. We should be thanking him rather than chastising him!

 

And if you still think the drum is a piece of crap, you can sell it for twice what you paid! What a shitty deal!

[Dirkenstien 2]

The drum works great in my gun and only took me about 15 minutes of filing following the instructions manual. It's also even more compact than I anticipated.

 

Awesome product.

[Surly 11]

I understand that some folks get all excited about a new product they ordered and then their "favorite load" doesn't cycle 100%, but Mike has been forthright on everything and it is likely something that you can fix by winding the drum spring, or adjusting your gas block/gas ports! If it is your Saiga that is not reliable, once again, that is out of Mike's control.

 

For those whiners, it's easier to blame Mike and say he makes an inferior product than it is to own up to it and say their pet load sucks or their shotgun needs attention. No firearm manufacturer will warrant a firearm that has had reloads put through it. I'm really suprised there haven't been any "My drum won't fit into my shotgun" threads by these meat-heads.

[Bayoupiper 738]

Mike, I was one of the three that said that I had some reliability issues with the drum, I also said that was very satisfied with its quality. But if you want elaboration, here it is.

 

I had put 60 rounds of Wali-World Federal #8 shot, 1 1/8 .oz, 3 dram loads through my S12. In the process of this I would experience one jam per drum. My gun is 100% with my AGPs. I have about 300 rounds through the gun in general. I had done everything to my gun in the reliability service thread suggested by you and Tony of Tromix, plus incorporated the suggestions of Simpson J Cat, most likely the originator of the bolt modifications with a far earlier thread here at the board. I had not ramped the barrel as suggested, I think, by you and e-Tac, due to the fact that my gun had the barrel set back in the trunion and I was pondering my solution for this problem.

 

I do not think that this problem is particularly significant, this was a problem with one load on a new drum, ergo I had seen no reason to bitch about it. It may have gotten better in time as the gun broke in or with a different load. I was not very concerned at that point and expected to test further, that is until my S12 and drum was stolen.

 

 

So, we are safe in saying that since that last 60 rounds, you have had NO ftfs???

 

 

 

 

(Sorry don't mean to kick ya when yer down. I just couldn't pass it up!)

[headshot 52]

Fuck, I think my only complaint is that I don't make enough to feed my S-17, and yes Mike and Tony are GRRRRREAT. No I have no affiliation with either but was smart enough to do my homework and order from the best. Thanks Mike for the wonderful drum and will be waiting patiently for my second (dumbass me forgot to order more than one first go around).

 

My drum didn't cycle federal value pack stuff reliably.

 

Everything else worked fine. I don't normally buy the federal stuff, so I just didn't buy anymore. Problem solved.

 

ETA: It was only a box of it. I have a RAA that has the welded-on 0,0 choke. It originally only had 3 ports, so I I drilled a fourth port in it. It always works well, and I only shot that one box of federal.

Edited January 15, 2009 by headshot

[WHITE 3 GOLF 2]

Fuck, I think my only complaint is that I don't make enough to feed my S-17, and yes Mike and Tony are GRRRRREAT. No I have no affiliation with either but was smart enough to do my homework and order from the best. Thanks Mike for the wonderful drum and will be waiting patiently for my second (dumbass me forgot to order more than one first go around).

 

My drum didn't cycle federal value pack stuff reliably.

 

Everything else worked fine. I don't normally buy the federal stuff, so I just didn't buy anymore. Problem solved.

 

ETA: It was only a box of it. I have a RAA that has the welded-on 0,0 choke. It originally only had 3 ports, so I I drilled a fourth port in it. It always works well, and I only shot that one box of federal.

 

When you shot the federal did you have your gas setting on#2? Well really doesn't matter you fixed the problem already. Don't buy that ammo anymore, just stick with what works. PEOPLE READ THAT LAST SENTENCE IT MIGHT CLEAR UP ANY PROBLEMS YOUR HAVING.

[stiletto raggio 20]

The only thing that disappointed me was that almost all of the slugs and buckshot rounds I own won't fit. The longer, roll-crimped "2-3/4 inch" rounds that I have are over the 2.4" max length for the drum. It has worked reliably and as advertised with all compliant ammo.

[headshot 52]

Anyone tried the Hornady SST slugs in theirs yet?

[hatedrug 0]

Winchester AA super handicap #7 works flawless but Remington Express 9 pellet OO fires the first round and the bolt recoils back but scraps from the high brass down the plastic hull. I have it on the correct gas setting. I guessing it's the spring. I'll wait for the second generation spring to arrive. When is it's ETA for the new spring for the first run of drums? Thanks

[elvis christ 451]

I was out shooting my s12 with the drum yesterday. I was shooting the cheap ass winchester universal wally world bulk pack. Did not have one issue related to the drum. I had a couple of FTE's, but that's because I need to clean the gas ports, I believe.

 

The drum does exactly what it's supposed to do, I couldn't be happier.

[waltham_41 52]

The ONLY thing that bothers me, and this is something that Mike has no control over, is that it is a tad bit awkward holding the shotty with the drum in and Tapco Galil forward HG... I need to get a vertical grip of some sort. Other than that, am 100% + happy with the drum.

[Surly 11]

The ONLY thing that bothers me, and this is something that Mike has no control over, is that it is a tad bit awkward holding the shotty with the drum in and Tapco Galil forward HG... I need to get a vertical grip of some sort. Other than that, am 100% + happy with the drum.

 

I felt that way right before I emptied out one of my drums for the first time. Sometime during the course of firing, I forgot all about it.

[mike12345 18]

I have a few problems with the MD20 drum.

 

I got a MD20 and had to modify the rear tab to make it lock in. It only works in the one saiga. I would have to buy seperate drums for each of my saigas.

 

The drum fails to feed. I believe the guide rod springs aren't strong enough to strip a round from the drum and fully close the bolt. The bolt stops at least once in 20rds, aprox. 1/4in open with just the brass end of the shotshell sticking out of the chamber.

 

The drum is in the way of my arm and awkward to use.

 

These are the same problems I had with with the Wraithmaker drum and the reason I sold it.

 

The drum is less than 100% reliable so it's collecting dust.

Edited February 3, 2009 by mike123456

[patriot 7,197]

I have a few problems with the MD20 drum.

 

I got a MD20 and had to modify the rear tab to make it lock in. It only works in the one saiga. I would have to buy seperate drums for each of my saigas.

 

The drum fails to feed. I believe the guide rod springs aren't strong enough to strip a round from the drum and fully close the bolt. The bolt stops at least once in 20rds, aprox. 1/4in open with just the brass end of the shotshell sticking out of the chamber.

 

The drum is in the way of my arm and awkward to use.

 

These are the same problems I had with with the Wraithmaker drum and the reason I sold it.

 

The drum is less than 100% reliable so it's collecting dust.

 

Sounds like you need to read tha manual.