Patriot12 11 Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Is it possible to make a hollow point slug into an armour piercing slug by screwing a small steel screw through the center of the slug? Or is this just urban legend? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kresk 10,063 Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Have heard of epoxying carbide steel to a hollow point but I haven't tried it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zakmatthews 14 Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Bad idea, I don't think it would work. More importantly, it is illegal: According to the ATF, it is: ok to OWN AP ammo ok to SELL AP ammo ok to BUY AP ammo ok to SHOOT AP ammo NOT ok to MAKE AP ammo (18 USC sec. 922(a)(7)) NOT ok to IMPORT AP ammo (18 USC sec. 922(a)(7)) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
brickfield mfg 86 Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 And unless you turned the slug on a lathe to bore a hole dead center for what ever you inserted in there, it would be off balance, and throw off accuracy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 I would just like to point out to our BATF&E visitors that these forums did NOT encourage them and in fact pointed out the illegality of it! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
satellitedr3ams 0 Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 ive got some "real" ap 2 3/4 slug i got a pic of it on photobucket, my user name is satelltiedr3ams. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evildog 20 Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 I would just like to point out to our BATF&E visitors that these forums did NOT encourage them and in fact pointed out the illegality of it! uh..........+1 on what Will said, no use in starting a ship storm besides a 12ga slug will punch some bullet proof glass clear through.......... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Twinsen 86 Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 It's super easy to make armor piercing slugs. I'll give you a recipe after I post a couple images. Recipe for armor piercing slugs: Step 1: Buy box of 3" Remington 1oz sluggers Step 2: Shoot them Step 3: Holes magically appear in stuff 'Bullet Proof' Glass Testing Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vbrtrmn 167 Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 (edited) Poor man's armor piercing slugs... if you are a poor man, you probably shouldn't me manufacturing AP slugs, since you probably won't be able to afford a lawyer. Edited March 6, 2009 by vbrtrmn Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Patriot12 11 Posted March 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 It's super easy to make armor piercing slugs. I'll give you a recipe after I post a couple images. Recipe for armor piercing slugs: Step 1: Buy box of 3" Remington 1oz sluggers Step 2: Shoot them Step 3: Holes magically appear in stuff 'Bullet Proof' Glass Testing How many shots did it take to make the first complete hole? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Patriot12 11 Posted March 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 It's super easy to make armor piercing slugs. I'll give you a recipe after I post a couple images. Recipe for armor piercing slugs: Step 1: Buy box of 3" Remington 1oz sluggers Step 2: Shoot them Step 3: Holes magically appear in stuff 'Bullet Proof' Glass Testing How many shots did it take to make the first complete hole? I had some of this answered when I clicked on the link. Was the glass compromised before the slug was used? I saw that you hit it with a 7.62mm NATO close to where the slug impacted. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hallboss 1 Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 I will attest to the hole in bullet proof glass. First round or last round, 12ga slug will go through. But why the necc. for AP, are you going on some type of ramage or something? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Patriot12 11 Posted March 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Bad idea, I don't think it would work. More importantly, it is illegal: According to the ATF, it is: ok to OWN AP ammo ok to SELL AP ammo ok to BUY AP ammo ok to SHOOT AP ammo NOT ok to MAKE AP ammo (18 USC sec. 922(a)(7)) NOT ok to IMPORT AP ammo (18 USC sec. 922(a)(7)) I have no real intention on making AP rounds, but 18 USC ces 922 reads as if they are refering to pistol ammo, see below. Is this addressed in a different spot including long gun ammo? (17)(A) The term "ammunition" means ammunition or cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or propellent powder designed for use in any firearm. ( The term "armor piercing ammunition" means - (i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or (ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile. © The term "armor piercing ammunition" does not include shotgun shot required by Federal or State environmental or game regulations for hunting purposes, a frangible projectile designed for target shooting, a projectile which the Attorney General finds is primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes, or any other projectile or projectile core which the Attorney General finds is intended to be used for industrial purposes, including a charge used in an oil and gas well perforating device. (18) The term "Attorney General" means the Attorney General of the United States (!1) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Patriot12 11 Posted March 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 I will attest to the hole in bullet proof glass. First round or last round, 12ga slug will go through. But why the necc. for AP, are you going on some type of ramage or something? Not at all. For one just wondering if it would work, but now that I see how powerful a slug is by its very nature there is definatly no need for AP slugs. Plus, getting the core to be in the exact center would be more trouble than its worth. Bringing up this topic did teach me that 3in slugs will go through bullet proof glass!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Patriot12 11 Posted March 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Poor man's armor piercing slugs... if you are a poor man, you probably shouldn't me manufacturing AP slugs, since you probably won't be able to afford a lawyer. I was making a loose referance to the book,"Poor Man's James Bond," by Kirk Saxton. This book had similiar projects like this, none of which have I tried. I don't believe he had this idea in his book however. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Twinsen 86 Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 (edited) FYI that is not my website. A slug is just a LOT of energy all hitting one spot. Stuff can't handle it. Unarmored vehicles don't even stand up to 9mm, slugs are going to kill anyone in a truck or whatever. And this shows that humvee glass won't either. Also, slugs aren't shaped like you think they are. They're hollow. There isn't a lot of purchase there for a rod, like any pistol or rifle ammo has. ETA PIC Edited March 6, 2009 by Twinsen Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lipadj46 2 Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 I would also add that a shotgun slug is not really a "penetrating" round. Its a knockdown round that is slow but large in mass with a big diameter and good expansion. You use a shotgun for knockdown and stopping power. Will it go through armored stuff? Yes to a point but if you want true AP ability like actually shooting through steel armor get a rifle with a proper tungsten penetrator round, the higher velocity the better. Yes there are sabot shotgun rounds that would be more suited to AP but then you need to go to a rifled barrel and the velocities still are not near that of a rifle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ronswin 26 Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Is it possible to make a hollow point slug into an armour piercing slug by screwing a small steel screw through the center of the slug? Or is this just urban legend? A version of this is already out in the market: 12 Gauge Armor Piercing Ammo It's effectiveness is probably questionable though. Europeans had a solid bronze sabot-type slug years ago that had no problem going through small compact cars. The Russians had experimented with a solid steel rod-type slug for limited armor-piercing and defeating door locks. These sabot and solid metal slugs can only be used in a cylinder bore barrel. Sabot slugs work the best in rifled barrels. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Patriot12 11 Posted March 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Is it possible to make a hollow point slug into an armour piercing slug by screwing a small steel screw through the center of the slug? Or is this just urban legend? A version of this is already out in the market: 12 Gauge Armor Piercing Ammo It's effectiveness is probably questionable though. Europeans had a solid bronze sabot-type slug years ago that had no problem going through small compact cars. The Russians had experimented with a solid steel rod-type slug for limited armor-piercing and defeating door locks. These sabot and solid metal slugs can only be used in a cylinder bore barrel. Sabot slugs work the best in rifled barrels. I question the quality of these rounds. I am beginning to think that slugs are fine left alone. If a slug is not going to do the job, then you are in real trouble!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THE_HUNTER 2 Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 (edited) Old school BRI Sabot Slugs are very penetrative. Stay away from the old school BRI slugs in 3" mag, they are too long and will not fit or function well in 3"mag guns. I was stuck once with a bunch I bought before. Remember the movie "Alien Nation"? They starred in there! Edited March 6, 2009 by THE_HUNTER Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Dont forget folks, that the "bulletproof glass" shown in the pictures above is not "TRUE" Bulletproof glass. It is a Lexan plastic polymer that is bullet resistant... OBVIOUSLY it is NOT bulletproof. Real bulletproof glass is made of layers of glass and polymer that are heated and laminated together. It is a MUCH different thing than the stuff they showed pictures of here and shot at. I still want to see the official testing of the standard ball or AP .50 BMG round against TRUE Bulletproof glass!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 last year at the florida shoot, we did some penetration tests on a material that I will not mention, nor mention its use. The 12 gauge slugs I shot it with went through it like it wasnt there. We all had a talk about a few issues, and I think what was come up with was a viable solution to the problem. as for something a little more effective than a deer slug, well, Dixie slugs of course, but I dont think you want to fire them down your saiga. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavidQ 170 Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Has anyone ever seen this ammo before? http://www.deltaforce.com/catalog/12gaugeammo.html. Might open your possibilities for home defense. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mitch'SS 2 Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM005-1.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Patriot12 11 Posted March 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Has anyone ever seen this ammo before? http://www.deltaforce.com/catalog/12gaugeammo.html. Might open your possibilities for home defense. I am suspicious of gimick ammo. Quality, safety, and true effectiveness come into question. Has anyone tried any of these rounds and can testify that they work as advertiesed? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vbrtrmn 167 Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 I was making a loose referance to the book,"Poor Man's James Bond," by Kirk Saxton. This book had similiar projects like this, none of which have I tried. I don't believe he had this idea in his book however. I've heard of it, I was just f*ing with you Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eric Pate 478 Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Don't forget about the Sauvestre. http://www.sauvestre.com/index_us.htm Be sure to click on the "stopping power" link on the left to check out the size of that wound cavity! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vbrtrmn 167 Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 (edited) I've got another question... What are you shooting at which is wearing armor? And a comment... If you are shooting at a lightly armored human target with a slug, you're likely to do some serious shock damage to his organs, even if the slug doesn't penetrate the armor. Edited March 6, 2009 by vbrtrmn Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Patriot12 11 Posted March 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 I've got another question... What are you shooting at which is wearing armor? And a comment... If you are shooting at a lightly armored human target with a slug, you're likely to do some serious shock damage to his organs, even if the slug doesn't penetrate the armor. This thread has definatly generated interesting discussions. I have no intention on making, buy, or firing armour piercing slugs of any kind. I was just woundering how easily one could be made. I have defininatly learned alot from this thread and have learned new respect for 12ga slugs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BuffetDestroyer 969 Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 (edited) Box O Truth is a great source of info on stuff like this. If you see what kind of a crater it leaves through Class IIIa armor , you will see that it is still effective. From what I have read, even though a slug doesn't penetrate, it usually has enough force to cause a fatal cardiac arrhythmia by knocking off the central nervous system with the impact. At that point penetration isn't what you need. Edited March 6, 2009 by BuffetDestroyer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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