criminalpoet 0 Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 So I took my new Saiga 12 out today and tried various types of ammo and I prefer using 3" magnum over all... But, with the 3" magnum the recoil is brutal lol!!!! So my question is, which muzzle brake actually works and is actually worth spending the money on? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
criminalpoet 0 Posted March 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Their all that bad? Anybody? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
raidersfan_5544 57 Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 wish I could help but I haven't got my saiga finished yet Quote Link to post Share on other sites
volfandan 1 Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 I'm not an expert on balistic dynamics and recoil physics, but from all that I've heard from my smith and other RKI's.....you're wasting $$ if you want a muzzle device to reduce recoil on a shotgun. They look neat, and can reduce flash signature. Mossy 835's were ported 3/4's of the way down the barrel instead of the end of the barrel for a reason. There is a guy who has posted a pic on here of his Saiga, and he has a tanker style viper-head looking brake in the mid section of his barrel. This is about the only way to really reduce recoil by porting or adding on a barrel device on a shotgun. The gas escape is vastly different with shot and a bullet, so the traditional brakes really have no real effect on a shotgun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kingjoey 5 Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Muzzlebrakes aren't as effective on a shotgun as they are on a rifle due to the comparative difference between the mass of the projectile and the propellant, but we still get appreciable results with our KA-1212 series. There are some additional factors that make a muzzlebrake effective on a shotgun and they will vary in effectiveness depending on their design. Its always fun to have people tell us that a muzzlebrake doesn't work on a shotgun then let them shoot one of our demo guns. It really frustrates the piss out them when they sit there and try to figure out why it worked 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
criminalpoet 0 Posted March 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Thank you guys, thats what I was looking for!!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VanKiller 322 Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 I've always had the best results with the original. The Cutts Comp built by Lyman for 30 years or so.......(shameless plug) Check out pics in my section under the Nailgun thread......... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ronswin 26 Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Muzzlebrakes do indeed work on shotguns and the effectiveness of how well is based on several factors. What type of brake (or how is it designed), barrel length, shot weight and velocity. If you use light birdshot loads such as #7 or #8 a comp will have little effect compared to using heavy buckshot or slugs. I've used the PolyChoke with integral comp, the original Russian Cutts-compensator clone and the Royal Arms recoil reducer and I prefer the Royal Arms compensator. Keep in mind that any of these devices are designed to work on felt or perceived recoil only and will enable faster rapid firing by allowing quicker next-target sight alignment. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 I've been wondering if a brake similar to the one on the AMD-65 would be effective in exponentially increasing the noise level of my Saiga-12 while providing a modicum of recoil reduction. Scaled up of course. I know that brake makes my AMD-65 my second loudest rifle, next to my 50BMG. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 We've had good feedback as to the effectiveness of the Shark Brake as well as the Comp Brake. Like KingArmory said, they don't work as well as rifle brakes but they do work. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cvhanh20 1,052 Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Anyone out shot their Warthog yet?? If so do tell. During test firing, 2 3/4 felt no muzzle lift, none, 3" mags just a little, but could easily say on target. Can't wait to start getting feed back. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VanKiller 322 Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Oh no................hanging my head........I'll get on that Cameron.........at least I can get some pic of Ben shootin 3 inch buckshot with the Warthog and with a factory standard gun.............any excuse to beat him with a gun is always a good one.................... Anyone out shot their Warthog yet?? If so do tell. During test firing, 2 3/4 felt no muzzle lift, none, 3" mags just a little, but could easily say on target. Can't wait to start getting feed back. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Etek 32 Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 I've been wondering if a brake similar to the one on the AMD-65 would be effective in exponentially increasing the noise level of my Saiga-12 while providing a modicum of recoil reduction. Scaled up of course. I know that brake makes my AMD-65 my second loudest rifle, next to my 50BMG. An AMD-65 device would work better if the vents are angled more rearward. As it is the AMD device is more of a 'Blast Dispersion' device rather than a Brake or flash hider. On all REAL brakes the holes are angled rearward. Not to say that those 'Brakes' that aren't don't work at all, just that they would work better if designed differently. The problem is that when the holes ARE angled rearward the blast toward the rear can be horrific! Our shop refurbishes Bushmaster 25mm Chain Guns and the Mk75 76mm automatic cannon. The Bushie uses a brake with 16 vents angled sharply rearward (8 on a side) and is quite effective. The Mk75 uses an adjustable brake with 128 of the 150? sharply angled holes exposed and it too is quite effective as a brake and a blast dispersion device. Without the device the anti-skid coating on the deck is literally BLASTED off! As another member noted, a shotgun is quite different than a rifle (Or cannon!) but the physics are similar and their design brake may well work fine especially with slugs. Since they are the experts and have tested their products I'd go with what they say works best. Could their designs be improved 50%-100% ? Of course. But the rearward blast would have you shaking your head (If still attached) and saying "The felt recoil was less...I think... but the blast knocked off my glasses and hearing protection, my head hurts and....anybody see my Toupe'?" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kingjoey 5 Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Angling the ports on a shotgun brake only provides slightly more recoil reduction, but it greatly increases the noise level at the operator's position. Angle porting is generally used on rifles where maximum recoil reduction is needed. Redirecting the propellant in a direction opposite to the direction of bullet travel creates a counter-recoil force which counters some of the recoil created by accelerating the projectile. We have a small tutorial on this on our website, explains the basic physics behind muzzlebrakes and recoil. Muzzlebrake/Recoil tutorial link 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wakal 10 Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 (edited) Some folks talk, others do the research, scratch-build prototypes, then make guns with brakes that work I have since removed the rubber pad from the stock...it isn't necessary. Alex Edited March 18, 2009 by Wakal 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ronswin 26 Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 Alex, Damn nice!! Does the mid-barrel tank brake have any effect on the shot pattern or wad columns? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wakal 10 Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 No, it does not. The gas ports that make that multi-chamber monstrosity work are too small to have an effect. We patterned guns before and after porting the crap out of 'em, and they worked the same. Robert at R&R Racing set up his personal gun with two comps, mounted flush. He says it works great; I haven't built one with two yet, though Alex Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Biff Stroganoff 1 Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 Does it have to be that long to work? I'd probably be interested, except I don't want a long gun banging around on the walls in my dark house. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dannyfantasy2000 68 Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 Alex- Is there a noticeable loss of muzzle velocity with your setup? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
criminalpoet 0 Posted March 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 Some folks talk, others do the research, scratch-build prototypes, then make guns with brakes that work I have since removed the rubber pad from the stock...it isn't necessary. Alex How much to have this done to my Saiga and whats the down time? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wakal 10 Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 I don't have a short gas gun set up without a ported barrel to chrono for a baseline. The regular gas guns I've built needed to have their gas ports opened up; the barrel porting that close to the gas ports changes the pressure on the gas system. Short gas system guns run out of the box, so to speak. Long? Fred's gun is 18.1 to the end of the adjustment threads on that funky old comp/adjustable choke of his, and my gun has a 18.1 barrel (internal chokes). The gas system on both of those guns is cut back, which is why they look funny. Fred still uses the factory handguard; it just doesn't surround anything past his gas block Robert over at R&R is selling the Dreadnaught Industries FH comp; I think he is charging $175. Usually installation is another hundred, if memory serves. The usual pattern is fifteen 1/8" holes at .250 centers in three rows, centered at 3 and 9 o'clock, and barrel porting is also available (if there is enough barrel; long gas guns run out of barrel, as the first ports are at 4" forward of the gas ports). Alex Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skiboatsp 111 Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 (edited) Just toying around Edited March 19, 2009 by skiboatsp Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Just toying around Wow, that is nice! I would love to see it run! I have been considering a mid mounted tank-style brake! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kingjoey 5 Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Just toying around Wow, that is nice! I would love to see it run! I have been considering a mid mounted tank-style brake! I think the handguards might get in the way Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Just toying around Wow, that is nice! I would love to see it run! I have been considering a mid mounted tank-style brake! I think the handguards might get in the way And you doubt that my hand, complete with Kung-Fu grip, will make an effective impingement surface for the Mid-brake? Actually, for it to be "Mid" mounted implies that my barrel is longer then the Saiga pictured, which it is ... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MRboost 0 Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Hey Cameron, I have the Warthog but no S12 yet. The day I get my hands on it I'm testing it out at the local range. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fortyacres 0 Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Cameron, what has been the feedback on your wave brake? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chris03xx 0 Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 I have the chaos warthog brake on my s12 right now. However I'm having gas issues at the moment. The brake looks clean and deff sticks into doors, trees, or anything else I've decided to blow apart with some breaching rounds I picked up. When I'm done drilling out my ports and putting it back together I'll post some picks. Other than that what use I've gotten out of the warthog it has performed great. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 I think a choke is a much more practical and beneficial addition to a Saiga 12, although they do nothing for recoil reduction. I have noticed that most brakes are large and look very heavy, and I am beginning to wonder of most of their benefit isn't due to the added weight to the muzzle. I would like to do a test with a muzzle brake and an extension of the same length and weight, just to see. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BOB A. BOOEY 45 Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 Ya know its funny Ive never seen so many contradictory comments in my life. One guy says they work, another says they dont. The people selling them of course say they work. Does anyone really know? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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