an704 0 Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 Im wondering if i buy one of these guns now and i convert it over if there is a "BAN" will my gun be classified as a destructive device? you know the whole pistol grip , 20 round drums, hard to justify for hunting.... would this be a sound financial investment? like should i buy 10 because they might triple in value over the next 10 years.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
okie shooter 0 Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 Thats why I got my self one. On that thought. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1mile50 102 Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 Im wondering if i buy one of these guns now and i convert it over if there is a "BAN" will my gun be classified as a destructive device? you know the whole pistol grip , 20 round drums, hard to justify for hunting.... would this be a sound financial investment? like should i buy 10 because they might triple in value over the next 10 years.. I doubt it, the converted S-12 would be classified as an AW. The drum however, is a different story. Originally, Finewswine had wanted to serialize all hi-cap mags and have them registered as DDs. That was in the initial draft of the '94 ban, but the language to modify the '68 GCA in order to do so was struck out of the bill, mostly by the efforts of the NRA. Fineswine and Co. have not forgotten, nor mellowed in their fanatical pursuit of destroying our rights. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Raoul_Duke 113 Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 . . . And out come the Wolves . . . Just get one because you want one. If you're looking for fiscal/financial investments, I believe there are better out there. Fun investments at this cost, well . . . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
an704 0 Posted March 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 (edited) i just don't wanna be the guy who has the opportunity to buy 5 guns that might be banned from importation, and dosen't do it. imagine if i would of bought a few underfolding norinco ak's back before they were banned from import... think about that price turn around when i would go to sell it? Edited March 23, 2009 by an704 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
reaganv@gmail.com 0 Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 My time machine is broke. Ask Dr. Who. (Buy 1 because you want one, and not to turn a profit) Sounds like a typical gun show "entrepreneur") Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Raoul_Duke 113 Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 i just don't wanna be the guy who has the opportunity to buy 5 guns that might be banned from importation, and dosen't do it. imagine if i would of bought a few underfolding norinco ak's back before they were banned from import... think about that price turn around when i would go to sell it? I know what you're saying, your talking to an "investor", as I COULD buy ALL that I come across, if I felt the need. I could've personally kept Tony busy for at least a year, but, I got them for fun. To each his own I guess . . . Just leave some for the rest of us, please . . . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SOPMOD 254 Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 Your window of opportunity closed when CDNN ran out of S12s for $289ea.If you had bought them then you would have just about doubled your money by now which would be a 25% yield per year but these things will top out at $1200,the drums however might become an astounding investment. I personally won't buy a drum unless I can pick it up cash in a FTF transaction because I think the whole package will eventually be a DD and ask anyone who owned a USAS12 if that was a good investment once they registered it,because it wasn't.I have seen them sell for $1600-$2400 and they were $1200 before becoming a DD and that sucks canal water. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gibbles 23 Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 I know of a few USAS-12's around town, all under 2k. I saw a striker-12 (street sweeper) for sale local for $1100... I thought it was kinda funny about the striker, 11round rotary drum... USAS is cool but it's big and heavy, I would rather have the saiga. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
clifton 354 Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 Buy one ,, for fun... if you wanna make money on guns ... get an FFL and gun shop... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 Im wondering if i buy one of these guns now and i convert it over if there is a "BAN" will my gun be classified as a destructive device? you know the whole pistol grip , 20 round drums, hard to justify for hunting.... I own guns, yet I've never hunted a day in my life (no, nothing against it, just not "my thing"). Why would anyone have to justify any gun, with the fact that it's used for hunting? Not to jump on a new guy, but that shit sounds exactly like the anti's reasoning for gun ownership. FYI, the 2nd Amendment has not a damn thing to do with hunting. Welcome to the forum! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
clifton 354 Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 America will slowley be taught it is dirty to own anything more than a single shot .177 ... and will have to make excuses why they want to own it... many American have allready left the 2nd as a memory of once ago.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 America will slowley be taught it is dirty to own anything more than a single shot .177 ... and will have to make excuses why they want to own it Not me. I'll never have to make an excuse of why I own anything I own, gun-related or not. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evildog 20 Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 If you want an investment, then buy up drums and mags to sell if the ban would go through again, But if your wanting to buy a saiga to simply drive up the price later leave it on the table for the rest of us to buy because they are kickass. As shooter 22 said why do any gun owners need to justify any gun they own? It's our 2nd amendment right and even if you don't every go hunting why can't you simply own a gun to shoot for fun and to relax with friends for an afternoon? Sorry don't mean to beat up on the new guy but i think you've listened to to many news reporters or liberals on why do you need that big bad nasty looking gun?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
eudyta63 0 Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 I would not buy for an investment for a future ban that may or may not come.If another ban does come most likely they will make it where you could have what you got but you could not legally sell it to anyone.This would hurt your "investment".Buy one because "you" want one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moe Zambeak 53 Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 Let me guess, you are going around town buying all the ammo you can find as an "investment" too. I think your judgment demonstrated on your first post on this board shows that it is a poor idea for you to purchase any firearm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 Like everyone else, I can't predict the future. When it comes to investing, take the advise of experienced antique dealers; "buy what you like". I will say this: if you want a Saiga-12 (or any other non-sporting weapon) you shouldn't wait too long to get one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bounce12 407 Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 you know the whole pistol grip , 20 round drums, hard to justify for hunting.... ShiiiiiiiiT!!! The only reason I bought the 20-round drum that holds 2.75" shells is because they don't offer a 50-rounder that takes 3" magnums. You can't have too much firepower when you go hunting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
an704 0 Posted March 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 i think some people have the wrong impression here. . . . to clarify Moe Zambeak... i just got out of the Marines in January, 6 years of my life i served my country, and im 23. I joined the Marines because because i wanted to fight for my country, AND i 've loved guns since i was old enough to shoot a bb gun, but few places in American society that you can get paid to "play with guns" uncle sam sent me to 2/2 after SOI and off i went... but in my time in the service i realized i knew more about my m-16 than the armorers that maintain them, i knew more because just like some men are obsessed with football since they were 11, i've been obsessed, studying and learning about gun's, foreign and domestic, the gun markets, the prices, the laws... being AWARE of the things around me. as far as me buying ammo all over.. nope, sorry friend. i had that base covered 3 years ago... and buying firearms, too late for that, got PLENTY of them too i have all the guns and ammunition that i need for my personal well being and protection. im looking to do something as hobby now, something for fun... NOT to rip people off down the road, actually quite the opposite. don't assume that just because i ask an off the wall question i don't know what im talking about, im looking for others input, gathering ideas/ opinon just a heads up about shotguns... mabe we could take a look at a part of The Gun Control Act of 1968, any type of weapon (other than a shotgun or a shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes) by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, and which has any barrel with a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter; and dont you think Hillary would shit if she saw a 20 round 12 guage drum stuck in the bottom of a side folding ak shotgun? i think there is a very real chance that these particular weapons till be targeted as something other than a shotgun. i hope it DOES NOT happen, BUT there is a very good chance we'll another more specific assualt weapons ban and if we do that whole pre / post ban thing will ensue. prices will distort because of supply and demand. once thing are gone they are gone. im saying Theoretically, if i bought a few now, changed the furniture, sights, convert over to a pistol grip, and then sat them in a safe for 5 or ten years... would it benifit me one day down the road Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MotorCity 0 Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 I bought mine because its a fun and kick ass shotgun. The closest you can get to is the M4. Yet that still has it limitations to capacity. Where as with the Saiga if some ingenious individual came up with a 100 rd drum (that worked) we could use it. I think the sentiment sounds the same across the board. Buy the Saiga because you want it. Worse case you should be able to get what you paid. Good Luck and Happy Purchasing.. Also thanks for serving our country. Jeremy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jswledhed 57 Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 (edited) This sounds quite a bit like Harley Davidsons in the mid-90's. People were buying new ones as quick as possible to flip them for a profit by selling them privately. They could do that because they were behind in production and there was a waiting list at the dealerships. I have to wonder how much of a production shortage there really would have been if so called "investors" hadn't been buying them left and right then filling waiting lists trying to turn a profit for themselves. Also sounds like the housing market two years ago. People were buying multiple homes figuring they could hang on to them for six months or a year, then sell them for a profit. That didn't work out so well becuase it turns out people aren't interested in paying $250k for a house in the ghetto. I can't stand either group. Demand from "investors" drives the price up; it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. In the end, buy the Saiga because its more fun than a barrel of feces flinging monkeys. Buy gold, diamonds or stock ( ) for investments. Edited March 23, 2009 by jswledhed Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Raoul_Duke 113 Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 (edited) Sorry if I personally offended you an704. But the way you stated you initial post, "sound financial investment", it makes it sound like your just in it for the money . . . But on the other hand, having said you're not doing it to rip people off, hell yeah it will benefit you one day down the road. I don't think they'll ever go down in value. But I do think there are better investments for monetary purposes. Better investments for fun purposes, well, that's highly debatable . . . Edited March 23, 2009 by Raoul_Duke Quote Link to post Share on other sites
geneseo1911 2 Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 The AG (the most anti-gun AG in history) could classify the S-12 as a DD at his whim. The GCA '68 quoted above gives him the power to reclassify any shotgun he thinks is "unsporting" with a bore over .50 with the stroke of a pen. I bought my S-12 because I wanted one badly and honestly believe this will happen as soon as he can get away with it. I think we've only made it this long because the S-12 cult is still under the radar enough to not get noticed. I've never met anyone personally who wasn't a dealer and HAD heard of them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
clifton 354 Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 you know the whole pistol grip , 20 round drums, hard to justify for hunting.... ShiiiiiiiiT!!! The only reason I bought the 20-round drum that holds 2.75" shells is because they don't offer a 50-rounder that takes 3" magnums. You can't have too much firepower when you go hunting. Im mean who knows what you will run into in the forest hunting... could be liberals... and if there's a bunch of them... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moe Zambeak 53 Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 Reading your initial post you leave the first impression that you were just out to make a quick buck by buying 10 Saiga 12's. I don't think that I was off base for saying what I did. I haven't been a member here long, but it didn't take more than a few minutes of lurking through the forums to see that everyone on here invests time and effort in each one of their shotguns. It takes even less time to see that the reward people on this board are looking for is the pride in their work. Some members do make a living off working on these guns, but I have not seen the first hint of ANYONE on this board trying to make a quick buck or rip someone off. On the contrary, most people here do what they do because they love it, and they want to help others. I may have come off like an asshole in my earlier post. For that I apologize. If you are coming here for help and knowledge this is THE place. You will be welcomed with open arms. You won't find a better group of guys then you will find here. After I got out of the Army, I never thought I would have the same joy as squeezing off a belt on the MK19 grenade launcher. It only took one shot on my Saiga to change my mind. :killer: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sudaevpps43 31 Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 Im wondering if i buy one of these guns now and i convert it over if there is a "BAN" will my gun be classified as a destructive device? I believe the Obama administration will try to go after the Saiga 12, but not by ordering the ATF to reclassify it as a DD, instead Obama will just order the ATF to 'find' that the Saiga 12 is a non-sporting firearm, which is easier for the ATF to implement than a DD reclassification. The only reason the Clinton administration went after the USAS 12 and Street Sweeper by ordering the ATF to reclassify them as DDs, was because they hadn't realized yet that they could instead have just ordered the ATF to find that they were 'non-sporting', which would have also ended their importation, but without the all the paperwork and effort that goes into a DD reclassification. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 Thats complicated because it is a sporting gun.. Just about every feature on it is included in one or more popular hunting shotguns. If they go after magazine fed shotguns that includes a number of shotguns made strictly for hunting, or if they go for semis with magazines over 5 they also get a lot of hunting guns.. So other then a ban by name which they probably won't do they will piss off the fudds. I love my S-12 for hunting small game, I don't own the large magazines because I don't see the point in them. I have 4 5 round magazines that I use. The thing is that Saiga-12s are not that huge a deal. The USAS-12 was just plain and simple not sporting at all, the streetsweeper could be fired without the barrel thus making it a SBS. Most of the saiga 12s that I see are either completely unconverted and with only a 5 round magazine, or just a basic conversion still with a 5 round magazine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
an704 0 Posted March 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 thanks for all the info soo far.. .. i'll be more clear next time about what i post, but every intention i have is VERY pro gun. im here to get better, smarter, and i hope everyone else is here for the same Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gothchick 0 Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 (edited) you know the whole pistol grip , 20 round drums, hard to justify for hunting.... ShiiiiiiiiT!!! The only reason I bought the 20-round drum that holds 2.75" shells is because they don't offer a 50-rounder that takes 3" magnums. You can't have too much firepower when you go hunting. Yeah, those pesky little wabbits can come at ya from behind any tree, anytime. Lol. I own firearms because it's my 2nd amendment right. I will never give up my firearms, nor will I ever justify why I own what I own. Even if that right is slowly chipped away, I will stand firm as a patriot. Edited March 24, 2009 by gothchick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigjimcalhoun 0 Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 This sounds quite a bit like Harley Davidsons in the mid-90's. People were buying new ones as quick as possible to flip them for a profit by selling them privately. Remember when the Harley V-Rod came out? It was 17k and people were spending 24k. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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