S. <>. S. -> What the hell is this?

[Mint_2k 0]

Ok, I know I'm new at these shotguns, but I got back from the range today after running 125 rounds through my Saiga-12 to break it in, and I've run accross something strange while cleaning the gun.

 

1st of all, there's something in the barrel, hanging down below where it appears to be the gas inlet. I've never noticed it before, but I 1st noticed it after running a brand new bore snake through the bore and it snagged on this metal protrusion - damn near ripped the bore snake all up.

 

I'm attaching a pic of this metal part that is inside the barrel. Anyone know what it is, how it got there, or if this is normal? I checked the gas port #s and there are three (if that helps).

 

In the attached pic, the gun is grip-down, bolt open, and looking straigt down the barrel.

Edited April 26, 2009 by Mint_2k

[iSaiga 4]

You, my friend, appear to have won the "Vodka Special" prize.

[Patriot12 11]

Ok, I know I'm new at these shotguns, but I got back from the range today after running 125 rounds through my Saiga-12 to break it in, and I've run accross something strange while cleaning the gun.

 

1st of all, there's something in the barrel, hanging down below where it appears to be the gas inlet. I've never noticed it before, but I 1st noticed it after running a brand new bore snake thourhg the bore and it snagged on this metal protrusion - damn near ripped the bore snake all up.

 

I'm attaching a pic of this metal part that is inside the barrel. Anyone know what it is, how it got there, or if this is normal? I checked the gas port #s and there are three (if that helps).

 

In the attached pic, the gun is grip-down, bolt open, and looking straigt down the barrel.

It looks like some of the chrome is comming off. I would send this picture to both Bobash at Tromix as well as RAA and get their opinions. I have never seen this myself. I noticed some scratches in my chamber and sent some pictures in a private message to Bobash and got some good advice.

[Mint_2k 0]

You, my friend, appear to have won the "Vodka Special" prize.

 

 

Not sure I understand. Have you seen this before? Does it need to be routed out?

 

Whatever it is it's not "loose". It apprears to have a corresponding indention in thebarrel wall as well (thinking of Patriot12's post).

I guess at this point I need to know how to fix it (if need be), or if it's dangerous to just shoot it like it is.

Edited April 26, 2009 by Mint_2k

[nalioth 405]

Pick up the phone and call RAAC.

 

They'll take care of you.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Wow

[Patriot12 11]

You, my friend, appear to have won the "Vodka Special" prize.

 

 

Not sure I understand. Have you seen this before? Does it need to be routed out?

 

Whatever it is it's not "loose". It apprears to have a corresponding indention in thebarrel wall as well (thinking of Patriot12's post).

I guess at this point I need to know how to fix it (if need be), or if it's dangerous to just shot it like it is.

The only reason that I said chrome is because these barrels are chrome lined. The ouners manual also states that paint scratching and chrome chipping should not be seen as defects. This causes me to believe that might be part of the chrome lining, unless it is part of a shell that was fired. Is it possible to take out with a rod of snake? Once you take it out you can see what it is. If one side is chrome in color the answer will be obvious. I would not shoot it again until I get feedback from BobAsh and RAA. It is hard to tell about these things.

[Mint_2k 0]

You, my friend, appear to have won the "Vodka Special" prize.

 

 

Not sure I understand. Have you seen this before? Does it need to be routed out?

 

Whatever it is it's not "loose". It apprears to have a corresponding indention in thebarrel wall as well (thinking of Patriot12's post).

I guess at this point I need to know how to fix it (if need be), or if it's dangerous to just shot it like it is.

The only reason that I said chrome is because these barrels are chrome lined. The ouners manual also states that paint scratching and chrome chipping should not be seen as defects. This causes me to believe that might be part of the chrome lining, unless it is part of a shell that was fired. Is it possible to take out with a rod of snake? Once you take it out you can see what it is. If one side is chrome in color the answer will be obvious. I would not shoot it again until I get feedback from BobAsh and RAA. It is hard to tell about these things.

 

 

I snaked it 4 times, and it appears to bend, but not break loose. It's ripping the bore snake though.

I can't seem to get it to knock off with the brush or rod either.

 

I'm starting to wonder - even if I do get it out - weather or not it will be safe to shoot.

 

I sent a PM to BobAsh, and tried "RAA", but the name wasn't recognized. If anyone else has seen anything like this PLEASE chime in.

[Patriot12 11]

You, my friend, appear to have won the "Vodka Special" prize.

 

 

Not sure I understand. Have you seen this before? Does it need to be routed out?

 

Whatever it is it's not "loose". It apprears to have a corresponding indention in thebarrel wall as well (thinking of Patriot12's post).

I guess at this point I need to know how to fix it (if need be), or if it's dangerous to just shot it like it is.

The only reason that I said chrome is because these barrels are chrome lined. The ouners manual also states that paint scratching and chrome chipping should not be seen as defects. This causes me to believe that might be part of the chrome lining, unless it is part of a shell that was fired. Is it possible to take out with a rod of snake? Once you take it out you can see what it is. If one side is chrome in color the answer will be obvious. I would not shoot it again until I get feedback from BobAsh and RAA. It is hard to tell about these things.

 

 

I snaked it 4 times, and it appears to bend, but not break loose. It's ripping the bore snake though.

I can't seem to get it to knock off with the brush or rod either.

 

I'm starting to wonder - even if I do get it out - weather or not it will be safe to shoot.

 

I sent a PM to BobAsh, and tried "RAA", but the name wasn't recognized. If anyone else has seen anything like this PLEASE chime in.

When I say RAA I mean Russian American Arms. Try http://www.raacfirearms.com/contact.htm

[pedal2alloy 206]

It looks like it is at the location of the gas holes, so it's possible that they were drilled with a dull bit which started a chip of the barrel lining, which was then peeled further by firing. Warranty service would be in order, but I would still bust it out of there to see what it is.

[Mint_2k 0]

It looks like it is at the location of the gas holes, so it's possible that they were drilled with a dull bit which started a chip of the barrel lining, which was then peeled further by firing. Warranty service would be in order, but I would still bust it out of there to see what it is.

 

That would make sence, but if it's just the lining it should not be a big deal, right? I'd sure hate to ship it off and be without it for a while. I wasn't even aware that there was a warranty.

[Nailbomb 10,221]

You'll never know what it is till you get it out..

 

in the meantime... WTF!?! i've never seen or heard of some shit like that. thats NOT normal.

[Mint_2k 0]

You'll never know what it is till you get it out..

 

in the meantime... WTF!?! i've never seen or heard of some shit like that. thats NOT normal.

 

 

Yeah, I know.

 

I don't think they make needle nose pliars THAT long. I've been sitting here now, for over 3 hours, trying to get the darn thing to come out.

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

Shit. I shipped my S-12 off to CGW for far less than that.

 

But yeah.. that looks like chrome lining peeling off.. at any rate, get that gun to a gunsmith.

[Mint_2k 0]

Shit. I shipped my S-12 off to CGW for far less than that.

 

But yeah.. that looks like chrome lining peeling off.. at any rate, get that gun to a gunsmith.

 

How exactly would a gunsmith fix it - can a gunsmith reline a barrel? If someone were to do that, it would have to be re-ported for the gas holes.

 

Man - this is not cool. This shotgun is turning out to be a short lived enjoyment

luck of the draw I guess.

[Jpanzer 1,265]

Send it to CGW for the warranty on repair. Problem solved...

[Nailbomb 10,221]

Send it to CGW for the warranty on repair. Problem solved...

+1 exacly

 

sometimes you have to let those who do what they do do it. CGW probably has access to spare barrels.

[corbin 621]

I remember a forum member talking about something similar some time ago, but nothing as severe as this. I can't imagine it being anything but the chrome lining coming off where the gas ports were drilled. That should be a warranty job, no doubt. Talk to Cadiz Gun Works or RAA.

 

Corbin

[cscharlie 107]

Looks like it may need some warranty work.

Edited April 26, 2009 by cscharlie

[BobAsh 582]

It looks like it could be something caught in the gas port area, maybe a piece of wad. I would try knocking it out with a dowel or something else that won't scratch your barrel. At least then you'll know what it is.

[hobbyshooter 59]

It looks like it could be something caught in the gas port area, maybe a piece of wad. I would try knocking it out with a dowel or something else that won't scratch your barrel. At least then you'll know what it is.

That's what I was going to say. Keep bending it back & forth until it breaks free. Then inspect the part.

 

Once cleaned up I'm sure it will be plenty safe to shoot.

[mscottrogers 56]

either take out your piston and probe the holes to see if its a piece of plastic that is stuck there, happened to me. Or get a wood dowel that will slide into the barrel snugly and tap out the material from one side then the other. Find out what it is before you panic.

[Gunfixr 76]

Yep, you won a "vodka special". I've seen that before, but not that bad. It's burrs in the bore from drilling the gas port holes. They are drilled after the barrel is made, which means after the bore is chromed. The chrome is hard, much harder than the steel, and resists drilling. It dulls the bits fast. Combine that with entering the bore at an angle, which isn't a clean break, and you're dulling the bits even more quickly, even breaking them. Even with a new, sharp drill bit, there will be a small burr left where the hole comes through, so small as to be largely unnoticeable. As the bit gets more and more dull, the burr will get progressively larger. You get an operator at the plant who's not paying attention, you see these kinds of things.

 

Basically, it's a small strip of metal hanging into the bore. It's razor sharp. It will bend back and forth until it breaks off.

 

Personally, if it were mine, I wouldn't bother sending it back, but that's your choice. I would just remove it. Take a rod, either a fatter shotgun cleaning rod, or a dowel or something, and wrap it with some emery cloth, something at least 240 grit, but probably not more than 320 or 400 grit. Cloth will be more preferable than paper here. Tape it on so it won't move. Make note of the depth required to get the cloth where the gas block is, insert the rod into the bore, and with pressure against the side of the bore towards the top of the gas block, scub back and forth just a little. Only an inch or two of travel is required, you're sanding the burr off. You'll feel the drag on the cloth, and when the burr is gone, you'll feel it smoothly sliding along the bore. Stop and have a look. You should be GTG, if not do a little more. You will scratch the chrome a little, but that won't hurt anything. You sit there and do this for an hour or two, you'll break through the chrome to the steel, but a few minutes won't hurt a thing. You don't want the dowel or rod too tight, so you can make most of the pressure towards the top.

 

For those who find lots of plastic wadding in your gas block when you clean, this will help with that, too, as small burrs are scraping off plastic as the wad goes by, and it's getting blown up into the gas block.

 

I have a rod dedicated for just this job in the shop, as it has now become a part of the work I do while doing a conversion.

 

Sad.

[TonyRumore 1,332]

I would knock the cross pin out of the gas block first, and make sure you're not looking at the pin hanging down inside the barrel. It may have been drilled too low and actually cut a tough right through the top of the barrel. Then when they drove the pin through, it went down into the bore.

 

I have seen it before, 3 times.

 

Tony

[Mint_2k 0]

Well,

 

I can spend more time on it, trying to break it free. It is metal -no doubt about that. I just want to make sure that if this burr breaks off, that it's still safe to shoot. Isn't there a difference in the consistance of the metals from the barrel to the chrome? Essentially if I break it loose, we're talking about a large gaping "pit", running 1/4 around the inner wall, in the barrel. Do you guys really think it's safe to shoot this way?

 

 

That and I want to the gun to retain its value. I wouldn't want anyone else to have a problem if I were ever to sell it.

It soulds like the best thing is to contact Cadiz.

 

Tony,

 

I would knock the cross pin out of the gas block first, and make sure you're not looking at the pin hanging down inside the barrel. It may have been drilled too low and actually cut a tough right through the top of the barrel. Then when they drove the pin through, it went down into the bore.

 

I have seen it before, 3 times.

 

Tony

 

Is the gas block a b!tch to get off? I've never tried that before.

Edited April 26, 2009 by Mint_2k

[waltham_41 52]

Tony didnt say to take the gas block off, but simply to knock the pins out and see if that is the problem. If you look in the pin holes and can see inside the barrel you have a problem that needs to be solved.

 

As far as the metal, a slug would probably take the metal out with it, but I would want it to send back with the shotty if I were going to send it in for warranty work. I would not shoot a slug until I checked what Tony said to check though.

[G O B 3,516]

I would send it back NOW. Don't fuck with it, unless you are sure it is only chrome flaking. Even then I would send it back. If this is a badly drilled pin or a defect in the metal of the barrel that pushed into the bore when the gas ports were drilled, shooting it WILL KB!

[TonyRumore 1,332]

If it was chrome flaking, it would have come off and been blown out with one shot. That's the gas block cross pin hanging down in the barrel. I would not shoot it like that with any type of load. Just knock it out from left to right and it will drop down in the barrel and fall out.

 

The fix is to cut the barrel off behind the pin and make it into an 8" shorty.

 

Tony

[saigafan12345 21]

send it back to RAA, don't mess with it. if you half-ass a fix and then decide to try and send it in, they'll probably tell you the warranty is void. just send it in man.

[Wolverine 10,360]

I would send it back NOW. Don't fuck with it, unless you are sure it is only chrome flaking. Even then I would send it back. If this is a badly drilled pin or a defect in the metal of the barrel that pushed into the bore when the gas ports were drilled, shooting it WILL KB!

 

+1. Send it in for repair or replacement.