Something I learned yesterday........

[22_Shooter 1,560]

Took my sister out shooting for her first time ever (she had WAY more fun than she thought she would and it "wasn't as scary" as she expected ).

 

 

 

Anyway, we stopped by a grocery store and picked up a bunch of apples, to act as "clays" (because the land we were shooting on has a lot of horses running around at times, and figured the apples would be less worry, as far as clean-up, compared to bits of clays everywhere).

 

Up until yesterday, I've only shot at static objects on the ground with my S12 (or any shotgun for that matter). So this was the first time ever attempting to shoot at something in motion with a shotgun. I was about to learn that my preconceived notion of shotgun spread was way off...........

 

 

I was with two ladies (my girl and my sister) and neither of them could throw the apples that far out. I had my girl to my right, chucking 1 apple at a time in front of me and up. The apples were about 30' out (maybe less. I'm estimating) when I would get a bead on them and pull the trigger. Out of a bag of about 20 apples..............I hit one apple, and even that one hit was not a direct hit. Seems more like it just caught a few stray pellets, because it didn't explode. I realize an apple doesn't have the same flight characteristics as a "clay" which would tend to "float" a little more. As opposed to the apple, which kind of just went up and came right back down pretty quick.

 

Not that I've ever fed into the whole "Just point and pull the trigger. You don't even really have to aim. It's a shotgun!" theory, regarding shotguns as HD weapons. But yesterday's learning experience really opened up my eyes as far as spread.

 

This was with #7 birdshot, BTW.

 

I'm sure there are some here who can do wonders in the situation I was in, and make me look like a fool. I remember seeing an exhibition shooter on TV, hold his pump sideways, rack it good, eject an empty straight in front of him, turn back, and blast the empty out of the air with what I'm assuming was birdshot.

 

 

 

 

That is all. I just wanted to share what I learned (and what most of you probably already knew) with you guys. BTW, something else I learned? Eye protection comes in handy, even when you're not the shooter. I was picking up 9mm casings as my sister was shooting (she wanted them as a "souvenir") and I turned to look up........BAM, steel 9mm case to the left eye. Luckily, I still had my shooting glasses on.

 

 

Do you shoot with both eyes open when shooting clays? I was using the factory irons on my S12 and was shooting with my left eye closed, as I do with any iron sights.

 

How far out are clays, on average, when you usually end up taking the shot?

[nalioth 405]

Were you leading your target?

 

The object of the game is to fire where the target will be, not where it's at when the trigger is pulled.

[hobbyshooter 59]

Sounds like you had fun.

 

Just for reference you shouldn't pick brass while someone near you is shooting. Especially a new shooter. You, as the experienced one need to stay behind her watching. I've seen new shootings turn and look when they catch something out of the corner of their eye, bringing the pistol muzzle with them sweeping people, or their own feet with their finger still in the trigger guard...

 

There's always time to pick brass after the dust settles.

[bigsky59721 3]

When I shoot clays I keep one eye almost all the way closed and depending on how clays are being thrown(hand tossed or by machine) they can be 25 yards + easily. Using a trap to thorw the clays they can go passed 50 yds. At those ranges you will need to lead the target but at 30ft not as much.

[read_the_wall 614]

Sound like a good trip, glad you had fun.....This is what came to my mind ......

[David Mark 2,452]

While I know there are guys who shoot clays with there S12 I didn't have much success with it either.

Maybe the 24" barrel version with a polychoke would be better.

But my 19 with the polychoke was not the right tool for the job for me. Let's face it. It is a combat shotgun.

 

Got a 28" O/U with a full set of chokes for a recent birthday and have had much better results on the clays.

 

It is truly surprising how far you need to lead the object you are shooting at. You are shooting more at a point in space the the clay itself.

Hoping that your shot cloud and the clay converge were you thought they would.

I had an old timer tell me there shouldn't even be a bead sight on a shotgun for clays.

 

It is still a humbling experience sometimes. My club sets up some very difficult courses.

[zenmetsu 17]

Eh? Saiga-12 is a clay murdering monster. You just need to aim better.

 

I was using #7 1/2 shot and zeroed my red dot to the center of the pattern at 12yards. then i went to the clay launchers and was blowing up those things left and right at about 20-30 yards distance. I did not even need to lead them that much.

 

The stock iron sights SUCK though... there is not much of a radius and the target acquisition times are too long. Put a parallax free device on there and have some more fun.

[scoutjoe 276]

Eh? Saiga-12 is a clay murdering monster. You just need to aim better.

 

 

Its a shotgun, they all murder clays. That being said its a whole different way to aim instead of point. Indy did/does real well with his IIRC. I'm decent with mine once I settle down and don't try to empty 10 rounds into a clay

[zenmetsu 17]

Eh? Saiga-12 is a clay murdering monster. You just need to aim better.

 

 

Its a shotgun, they all murder clays. That being said its a whole different way to aim instead of point. Indy did/does real well with his IIRC. I'm decent with mine once I settle down and don't try to empty 10 rounds into a clay

 

The only time i take multiple shots at a clay is if it breaks leaving a big chunk... i'll tag the larger chunks on the way down.

 

I split a clay in half and proceeded to shoot each half, scoring three hits on one clay. I made a believer out of the guy next to me with his Remington 870.

 

But yeah... shotties are all going to work well. You may need a choke at longer ranges, but I was not using one.

[Bvamp 604]

if you have a safe place to do it, and use the proper precautions, I highly recommend running and having some stationary as well as moving targets to blast at. hitting a gallon jug filled with sand while swinging from 20 feet of rope when you are moving isnt as easy as one might think. try it running uphill....

 

another fun one is with light bird shot loads and full eye protection on, tossing an open 16 oz can or bottle filled with water almost straight up, running under it, and see how high up you can blast it

 

if you want something harder, have someone fire clays at a 90 degree angle to you, about 20 feet in front of you. oh, yeh, when you say pull, make sure your gun is pointed at the ground, and in your non-trigger hand. thats a tough shot, and you only have a second or two to make it, if you set it up right....

 

....ah...what one does in pursuit of tastey animals, and out of sheer boredom....

[David Mark 2,452]

Eh? Saiga-12 is a clay murdering monster. You just need to aim better.

 

Yeah, I saw that coming. I think it is great if the Saiga works for you in this role.

It just didn't for me and I don't really believe it was the intended use MK had in mind. If you get my drift.

[Toby Allen 0]

What I learned when I first took my 19" S12 to shoot clays is;

set the poly choke on full

don't use the sights, point and shoot

make sure to lead the target if it's moving

 

Once you practice these you will be hitting the clays enough to impress anyother shotgun shooter.

Edited September 6, 2009 by Bear8u

[zenmetsu 17]

I have seen people shoot clays without sighting down the barrel. It becomes an act of muscle memory eventually, almost as if the shotgun is an extension of your own arms. These people are crazy to watch.

 

And I disagree about the MK comment. Sure, he wanted a gun for the military, but that does not prevent it from having sporting use.

 

In close quarters, you point and shoot... it is almost all reflexive. You do not use the pathetic sights on the weapon and that is probably why the ones from the factory suck so bad.

 

Seriously though... put a dot on the thing and i guarantee that you will be in love with the thing from that point forwards. That or spend more time shooting as Bear8u said. You'll get the hang of it eventually!

 

Plus... did you inspect the apples? You probably tagged a few of them without them blowing up. It is going to take a LOT more than 3 or 4 pieces of shot to blow one apart.

[David Mark 2,452]

Maybe I should give the Saiga another chance.

 

But I still believe a tool designed to do a specific job is best used to do that job.

I just don't see my 19" Saiga twelve as an upland game bird gun.

 

However a good 28" O/U is designed for just that. Hell, the one I have a pheasants etched into the damn receiver.

 

All that being said, I am certain there are many here with far more experience than me and who are far better shots than me.

 

I can just image the looks on some of the other shooters faces if I stepped up to the line with the Black Bear with a ten round AGP sticking out of it.

[zenmetsu 17]

Maybe I should give the Saiga another chance.

 

But I still believe a tool designed to do a specific job is best used to do that job.

I just don't see my 19" Saiga twelve as an upland game bird gun.

 

However a good 28" O/U is designed for just that. Hell, the one I have a pheasants etched into the damn receiver.

 

All that being said, I am certain there are many here with far more experience than me and who are far better shots than me.

 

I can just image the looks on some of the other shooters faces if I stepped up to the line with the Black Bear with a ten round AGP sticking out of it.

 

Yeah but it is fun!

 

Every time I do it, there is someone who goes "What the F*CK is THAT?!"

 

Better yet is watching the rangemaster freak out when you take to the skeet line... "Hey hey! You cannot use rifles for that!"

[David Mark 2,452]

Maybe I should give the Saiga another chance.

 

But I still believe a tool designed to do a specific job is best used to do that job.

I just don't see my 19" Saiga twelve as an upland game bird gun.

 

However a good 28" O/U is designed for just that. Hell, the one I have a pheasants etched into the damn receiver.

 

All that being said, I am certain there are many here with far more experience than me and who are far better shots than me.

 

I can just image the looks on some of the other shooters faces if I stepped up to the line with the Black Bear with a ten round AGP sticking out of it.

 

Yeah but it is fun!

 

Every time I do it, there is someone who goes "What the F*CK is THAT?!"

 

Better yet is watching the rangemaster freak out when you take to the skeet line... "Hey hey! You cannot use rifles for that!"

[22_Shooter 1,560]

Were you leading your target?

 

The object of the game is to fire where the target will be, not where it's at when the trigger is pulled.

 

My girl was right to my right, throwing out in front of me, and a little upwards. The apples weren't coming in from a side angle. So, really, there wasn't much of a need to lead the apples to much, given the angle they were being thrown. But I know what you mean, and will keep that in mind when I take a stab at it again.

 

Sounds like you had fun.

 

Just for reference you shouldn't pick brass while someone near you is shooting. Especially a new shooter. You, as the experienced one need to stay behind her watching. I've seen new shootings turn and look when they catch something out of the corner of their eye, bringing the pistol muzzle with them sweeping people, or their own feet with their finger still in the trigger guard...

 

There's always time to pick brass after the dust settles.

 

Very good point, and to be honest, not something that even crossed my mind at the time .

 

I did go over all safety precautions before handing my sis a gun.

 

Sound like a good trip, glad you had fun.....This is what came to my mind ......

 

 

Eh? Saiga-12 is a clay murdering monster. You just need to aim better.

 

I definitely do. Like I said, this was my first attempt. I gotta practice some more.

 

Just to make things clear.......in my OP, I'm not blaming my lack of apple-smashing on the gun itself or any factors other than myself. I was just pointing out that at the distance I was shooting at, I was really surprised how much the shot did not spread, as I had assumed it would. At that distance, aim was a lot more of a factor than I was thinking it was going to be. I mean, I already knew shot doesn't spread wide open immediately upon exiting the barrel (like they show in movies ), but I was thinking it would have spread enough at that distance to cover an apple with ease.

 

Ya learn something new everyday, and that was my lesson learned that day.

Edited September 6, 2009 by 22_Shooter

[tover26 18]

Hey Shooter, kind of doing the same thing in a few weeks with church. I suggested the apple toss as a better thing than littering the land with clay shards. It'll also give people something to do... apple chuckers and lead tossers. Like you, I would have guessed that bird shot would spread more (enough) to hit an apple... thanks for posting this.

Edited September 6, 2009 by EricinMaryland

[22_Shooter 1,560]

Hey Shooter, kind of doing the same thing in a few weeks with church. I suggested the apple toss as a better thing than littering the land with clay shards. It'll also give people something to do... apple chuckers and lead tossers. Like you, I would have guessed that bird shot would spread more (enough) to hit an apple... thanks for posting this.

 

No problem.

 

Yeah, the apples worked great, as far as clean up. None needed. I also ate an apple for first time in years .

 

My suggestion to you as far as the apples are concerned, make sure you get someone who has an arm to get those apples far enough out to where the shot spread will cover them with ease.

 

Let us know how it turns out.

[nalioth 405]

My suggestion to you as far as the apples are concerned, make sure you get someone who has an arm to get those apples far enough out to where the shot spread will cover them with ease.

 

. . . or just learn to shoot

 

These guys can hit an apple (or dimes, or sugar cubes, or . . )

[BpS12 512]

"Anyway, we stopped by a grocery store and picked up a bunch of apples, to act as "clays" (because the land we were shooting on has a lot of horses running around at times, and figured the apples would be less worry, as far as clean-up, compared to bits of clays everywhere)."

 

If I may make a suggestion, you might want to use steel shot if you are expecting horses to clean up your mess. Horses are VERY delicate animals compared to cattle and pigs. I doubt lead poisoning someones horses would be high on your to do list, lol. And it may not take that much. The steel shot would likely have less of an effect on them chemically and most likely just pass through if it is ingested.

 

Otherwise, it sounds like a great idea and I'm glad everyone had fun.

 

LRoDV,

Mikel

[PRISONSHANK 70]

sounds like you just needed a choke an i'm guessing you woulda shattered those apples.

i just went blastin clay for labor day an had a chance to try out a fresh factory half choke an the difference it made was massive.

instead of having to lay waste to em as fast as i could, i could let em fly out a ways an give em a sporting chance lmao

[ten 1]

with the s12 you have to align the sights quick while simultaneously noticing the target moving just before the targets path, then fire as it crosses

its a lot for your mind at first to swing and shoot moving targets accurately, but certainly possible though practice

for those just a few feet in front of you apples you have to focus hard and really just tunnel vision on them

of course that close your factory sights our going to be way high so point with the barrel

[Azrial 1,091]

Sorry, but I kind of feel for the horses that will be feeding on apples loaded with birdshot...

[22_Shooter 1,560]

with the s12 you have to align the sights quick while simultaneously noticing the target moving just before the targets path, then fire as it crosses

its a lot for your mind at first to swing and shoot moving targets accurately, but certainly possible though practice

for those just a few feet in front of you apples you have to focus hard and really just tunnel vision on them

of course that close your factory sights our going to be way high so point with the barrel

 

Yeah, I think it basically comes down to "practice, practice, and then practice some more". I'll have to take another stab at it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for those concerned about the horses..........like I said, I only actually hit one apple. The rest of my shots cleared them completely.

 

Besides that, what are the odds of any pellets that hit the apple, staying in the apple, to be consumed by whatever decides to munch on said apple? <--Serious question, no sarcasm.

 

If there's a good chance pellets that actually hit an apple, would become lodged in it, then there is an easy fix:

 

I could just have the thrower throw the apples over/past the fence, where none of the owned animals can get too (but it's still the owner's property). All of the apples would be outside of the fence once they hit the ground.

 

But honestly, I can't imagine that an apple could contain shot without it exiting. Maybe I'm making an incorrect assumption, though.

Edited September 8, 2009 by 22_Shooter

[nalioth 405]

Besides that, what are the odds of any pellets that hit the apple, staying in the apple, to be consumed by whatever decides to munch on said apple? <--Serious question, no sarcasm.

 

<snip>

 

But honestly, I can't imagine that an apple could contain shot without it exiting. Maybe I'm making an incorrect assumption, though.

You'd be surprised.

 

A lot depends on the shot size and load weight, shell size, speed of the apple, and probably some other variables I'm not listing. Under certain circumstances, it is quite possible for shot to stay in an apple in this situation.

[Lone Star Arms 2,047]

Real clays are usually no problem for me and my shooting buddies. I just line the clay up in the front sights or set the clay just on top of the sights (you will have to experiment with your own gun/sighting). We all shoot Saigas and hit a lot more than we miss.

 

Just for fun, we sometimes set up back up shooters. We line up two or three guys. First, second, and (sometimes) third gun. If the first misses, the second immediately fires at the clay. If the second misses #3 gets a shot. Everyone has a good time, and the clays rarely hit the ground intact.

 

Once the clays get far enough out, bird shot might not break them up - even if you get a direct hit - so try to nail them as soon as you have them in your sights.

 

Apples are pretty tough and I'm not sure bird shot would take them apart. My concern would be that the horses on the property would eat the lead laden apples, and may get lead poisoning. Eggs could be fun;)

 

WS