Lost business members

[westonsecurity 6]

We'll it seems that that their year subscription is over. KA was, is a great business to deal with , outstanding products. Diavalo arms on the other hand shouldn't be missed.

 

Maybe new business's should be vetted before being allowed to advertise, or a revised contract with a conduct code of what will get them dismissed from the forum.

[22_Shooter 1,560]

What happened to King Armory?

 

Glad to see Diavolo finally gone.

[Juggernaut 11,054]

We are not Socialist...... yet....

 

What keeps your lights on??? Same thing that keeps your Business section up.....

 

My guess is whatever agreement was between Bis Member and forum Owner..... fell through...

[Nailbomb 10,221]

yeap no one cares that diavolo is gone, in fact some with give a sigh of relief...

 

KA however was good to work with. I can't believe they left befor they started rolling out thier new saiga 12 ga barrels... I was really looking foward to that...

[TO THE FLOOR IN A 63 121]

yeap no one cares that diavolo is gone, in fact some with give a sigh of relief...

 

KA however was good to work with. I can't believe they left befor they started rolling out thier new saiga 12 ga barrels... I was really looking foward to that...

 

KA was good to work with??? Maybe that was your experience. Mine wasn't so delightful. I tried to call them several times and got nothing but their answering machine. Left messages and my calls were not returned. So all I can say is good riddance KA aka King Armory. FUCK OFF ASSHOLES

[Nailbomb 10,221]

yeap no one cares that diavolo is gone, in fact some with give a sigh of relief...

 

KA however was good to work with. I can't believe they left befor they started rolling out thier new saiga 12 ga barrels... I was really looking foward to that...

 

KA was good to work with??? Maybe that was your experience. Mine wasn't so delightful. I tried to call them several times and got nothing but their answering machine. Left messages and my calls were not returned. So all I can say is good riddance KA aka King Armory. FUCK OFF ASSHOLES

Longest wait i everhad in dealing with them was 4 days, but i wasn't calling them either... Yeah definitly a different expirience, I'm sorry to hear yours wasn't as good as mine.

[Havoc308 3]

I always got the idea that KA didn't have the business capacity to keep up with their manufacturing capacity. Good enough guys when you finally got ahold of them. From their website:

 

ATTENTION: WE ARE EXTREMELY BUSY RIGHT NOW AND ARE BEING PLAGUED WITH MANY IMPATIENT CUSTOMERS WHO ARE

WANTING DAILY UPDATES ON THEIR ORDER OR SHOP JOB AND ARE CALLING OR EMAILING REPEATEDLY. THIS ONLY MAKES US

EVEN MORE SHORTHANDED AS WE HAVE TO SPEND A LOT OF TIME ANSWERING NUMEROUS PHONE CALLS AND EMAILS. WE ARE

WORKING 14-16 HR DAYS TRYING TO GET THINGS DONE, CALLING/NAGGING/EMAILING ISN'T GOING TO EXPEDITE ANYTHING.

 

-WE ARE A BUSINESS, WE GENERATE PROFIT BY GETTING PRODUCT OUT THE DOOR. GENERATING REVENUE AND KEEPING THE DOORS OPEN IS PLENTY OF

MOTIVATION. YOUR INPUT OR BUSINESS THEORY IS PROBABLY NOT GOING TO HELP.

 

-IF YOU CALL AND SCREAM THAT YOU THINK YOUR BARREL/BOLT/WHATEVER SHOULD BE DONE ALREADY AND THAT WE MUST HAVE

STOLEN/SOLD/DESTROYED YOUR PART, YOU WILL SEE A $25 FEE ON YOUR INVOICE FOR 'IDIOT TAX' SINCE WE HAD TO HAVE PEOPLE TRACK DOWN

YOUR PART AND GET AN UNNECESSARY STATUS UPDATE.

 

-IF WE TELL YOU THAT A JOB WILL TAKE AT LEAST 2-3 WEEKS TO COMPLETE AND YOU START CALLING TWO DAYS AFTER YOU SEND THE BARREL IN TO

SEE IF ITS DONE YET, YOU WILL SEE A $50 FEE ON YOUR INVOICE FOR 'IDIOT TAX' SINCE YOUR INABILITY TO UNDERSTAND SIMPLE CONCEPTS REQUIRES

US TO GET UNNECESSARY STATUS UPDATES.

 

-IF YOUR SHOP JOB IS TAKING 1-2 WEEKS LONGER THAN ORIGINALLY EXPECTED AND WE RECEIVE A LETTER FROM YOUR LAWYER OR THE BETTER

BUSINESS BUREAU, YOU WILL SEE A $75 FEE ON YOUR INVOICE FOR 'IDIOT TAX' SINCE YOUR IMPATIENCE IS MAKING A SITUATION UNNECESSARILY

MORE DIFFICULT AND EATING UP EVEN MORE OF OUR TIME AND MONEY.

 

-IF YOU ARE WAITING FOR A REFUND/EXCHANGE/CREDIT OR PAPERWORK, WE PROCESS PAPERWORK AS FAST AS WE CAN. UNFORTUNATELY IT IS

OFTEN THE LOWEST PRIORITY RIGHT NOW WITH THE VOLUME OF SHOP JOBS RIGHT NOW. WE APOLOGIZE FOR THE DELAY, WE ARE WORKING AS FAST AS

WE CAN.

Edited September 17, 2009 by Havoc308

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

I always got the idea that KA didn't have the business capacity to keep up with their manufacturing capacity. Good enough guys when you finally got ahold of them. From their website:

 

ATTENTION: WE ARE EXTREMELY BUSY RIGHT NOW AND ARE BEING PLAGUED WITH MANY IMPATIENT CUSTOMERS WHO ARE

WANTING DAILY UPDATES ON THEIR ORDER OR SHOP JOB AND ARE CALLING OR EMAILING REPEATEDLY. THIS ONLY MAKES US

EVEN MORE SHORTHANDED AS WE HAVE TO SPEND A LOT OF TIME ANSWERING NUMEROUS PHONE CALLS AND EMAILS. WE ARE

WORKING 14-16 HR DAYS TRYING TO GET THINGS DONE, CALLING/NAGGING/EMAILING ISN'T GOING TO EXPEDITE ANYTHING.

 

-WE ARE A BUSINESS, WE GENERATE PROFIT BY GETTING PRODUCT OUT THE DOOR. GENERATING REVENUE AND KEEPING THE DOORS OPEN IS PLENTY OF

MOTIVATION. YOUR INPUT OR BUSINESS THEORY IS PROBABLY NOT GOING TO HELP.

 

-IF YOU CALL AND SCREAM THAT YOU THINK YOUR BARREL/BOLT/WHATEVER SHOULD BE DONE ALREADY AND THAT WE MUST HAVE

STOLEN/SOLD/DESTROYED YOUR PART, YOU WILL SEE A $25 FEE ON YOUR INVOICE FOR 'IDIOT TAX' SINCE WE HAD TO HAVE PEOPLE TRACK DOWN

YOUR PART AND GET AN UNNECESSARY STATUS UPDATE.

 

-IF WE TELL YOU THAT A JOB WILL TAKE AT LEAST 2-3 WEEKS TO COMPLETE AND YOU START CALLING TWO DAYS AFTER YOU SEND THE BARREL IN TO

SEE IF ITS DONE YET, YOU WILL SEE A $50 FEE ON YOUR INVOICE FOR 'IDIOT TAX' SINCE YOUR INABILITY TO UNDERSTAND SIMPLE CONCEPTS REQUIRES

US TO GET UNNECESSARY STATUS UPDATES.

 

-IF YOUR SHOP JOB IS TAKING 1-2 WEEKS LONGER THAN ORIGINALLY EXPECTED AND WE RECEIVE A LETTER FROM YOUR LAWYER OR THE BETTER

BUSINESS BUREAU, YOU WILL SEE A $75 FEE ON YOUR INVOICE FOR 'IDIOT TAX' SINCE YOUR IMPATIENCE IS MAKING A SITUATION UNNECESSARILY

MORE DIFFICULT AND EATING UP EVEN MORE OF OUR TIME AND MONEY.

 

-IF YOU ARE WAITING FOR A REFUND/EXCHANGE/CREDIT OR PAPERWORK, WE PROCESS PAPERWORK AS FAST AS WE CAN. UNFORTUNATELY IT IS

OFTEN THE LOWEST PRIORITY RIGHT NOW WITH THE VOLUME OF SHOP JOBS RIGHT NOW. WE APOLOGIZE FOR THE DELAY, WE ARE WORKING AS FAST AS

WE CAN.

Wow! God Bless King Armory!!! That is friggin excellent!

 

Why people can't figure this shit out for themselves and leave the damn vendors alone to do their work, is totally beyond me! Everyone...no...scratch that...NOT everyone, needs their little hand held while they are waiting on things they custom ordered. It's so ridiculous, like a bunch of whiney little babies who need special attention paid to them. It's all about them, and their little order. They don't realize how much it would slow down the machine if a company actually took the time to answer every ridiculous call and email, all the friggin time! Nothing would EVER get done.

 

Well I guess now I know why they aren't with us any more. NICE JOB GUYS!!!

 

 

[Paladin 37]

I don't understand why people who order custom parts or custom work seem to think it's like going to the drive-thru or walking in to a supermarket. If you want something NOW, then call ahead and see if it's in stock. If it's not or it's custom made, then be prepared to wait or don't buy it.

[Bean.223 365]

Agreed, and I dont think a non returned call = a F$$$ You.....

[Nailbomb 10,221]

Wow! God Bless King Armory!!! That is friggin excellent!

 

Why people can't figure this shit out for themselves and leave the damn vendors alone to do their work, is totally beyond me! Everyone...no...scratch that...NOT everyone, needs their little hand held while they are waiting on things they custom ordered. It's so ridiculous, like a bunch of whiney little babies who need special attention paid to them. It's all about them, and their little order. They don't realize how much it would slow down the machine if a company actually took the time to answer every ridiculous call and email, all the friggin time! Nothing would EVER get done.

 

Well I guess now I know why they aren't with us any more. NICE JOB GUYS!!!

 

 

That is the nature of buisness, not the nature of this forum. If they continue selling parts they will still be dealing with that same problem regardless of the nitche they choose to fill. Leaving this forum as a sponsor only decreases thier exposure to thier market.

 

The problem is people, not this forum. This forum only reflects what the population has in store.

Edited September 18, 2009 by Nailbomb

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Hey whoa.....back that train up. I'm not saying the forum is a problem. The forum is nothing but a plus to any business who advertises here. What I'm saying is there are a few people here who are a problem because it is in their nature to whine and be impatient. I've had people order a part from me and then want a status report the next day. That shit is ridiculous.

[Nailbomb 10,221]

Hey whoa.....back that train up. I'm not saying the forum is a problem. The forum is nothing but a plus to any business who advertises here. What I'm saying is there are a few people here who are a problem because it is in their nature to whine and be impatient. I've had people order a part from me and then want a status report the next day. That shit is ridiculous.

I can agree that it is impatient , and idiotic to treat a buisness that way, but if i am understanding you wrong why would you look to this forum and say "Well I guess now I know why they aren't with us any more. NICE JOB GUYS!!!" ?

 

am i just being a little oversensitive and drawing conclusions where there are none?

[lakedweller 10]

You are in business to sell your wares and the customer should be kept aware of the progress of their order.

 

Don't have the product or can not produce it in a reasonable time "Do not accept the money" until you can.

 

Customers have every right to inquire about the progress of their order.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

And businesses have every right to ignore them if they are too busy to hold their hands. Until you have been on this side of it, and have dealt with some of these people, I wouldn't expect you to have a clue.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Hey whoa.....back that train up. I'm not saying the forum is a problem. The forum is nothing but a plus to any business who advertises here. What I'm saying is there are a few people here who are a problem because it is in their nature to whine and be impatient. I've had people order a part from me and then want a status report the next day. That shit is ridiculous.

I can agree that it is impatient , and idiotic to treat a buisness that way, but if i am understanding you wrong why would you look to this forum and say "Well I guess now I know why they aren't with us any more. NICE JOB GUYS!!!" ?

 

am i just being a little oversensitive and drawing conclusions where there are none?

 

Yes sir I believe you are.

 

Please do not put words in my mouth. I wasn't talking to everyone here and I repeat, the forum itself is not the problem. The problem is a few people here who ruin everything for the rest of us. I was saying that to any of those who might be reading this. They know who they are...

 

You haven't been here long enough to remember the way Kevin at AGP got sick of the crying from a few dolts and decided he didn't want to come around here any more.

[elvis christ 451]

It's not like this forum is the only place these guys get their business from, so y'all shouldn't act like the people on this forum are the only ones calling them and bugging them. I'm sure there are a lot of people who have never heard of saiga-12.com that are just as impatient as a lot of assholes on here.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

I didn't say that either. Sure there are obviously a lot of other places they get their business from, but the whole point of paying to advertise here is to draw more business to your own site or place of business. I do know for a fact that KA didn't even offer anything for Saigas until after I invited them to join us here. After that, they started coming out with some really cool stuff for us all. They were even gracious enough to offer free rental of barrel threading tools to forum members. If I want to assume that a large portion of the new business they were getting (with their new Saiga parts) was coming from here, I can do that. I think it's only logical. I also know for a fact, just how some of these people can be around here, and it doesn't take too much of that kind of thing from a few individuals, to really piss someone off. Some of the things that are mentioned in that post from their website....such as people accusing them of stealing their stuff? Please......

 

I'm sure they have their own reasons why they are not here now...and who knows they aren't just taking a break and will be back as soon as they catch up? It's not something we need to be debating about. It's none of our business.

[mcpny 3]

I hope they come back.. I was gonna buy a handful of their new barrels for the s12 but i only like buying from and using the services of buiz members... i guess we'll see

[thehopping1 105]

 

I'm sure they have their own reasons why they are not here now...and who knows they aren't just taking a break and will be back as soon as they catch up? It's not something we need to be debating about. It's none of our business.

 

+1 Joe is a good guy. I know they have made some great products and extensively tested them to perfection. I plan on buying some Mosin stuff from him asap. As well as a tappet and hopefully a barrel. I wish KA the best and hope to see them on here again soon.

[Nailbomb 10,221]

Yes sir I believe you are.

okay I can accept that.

[tover26 18]

Simple truth... you spend your time and advertising $s where you're going to generate the most business. For gunsmiths and companies, that's not a single buyer interested in a custom product. It's to LE, military, and retail shops. A big order takes about the same level of effort to service as any single individual's order. Any expectation that I might have, is the same expectation a gun shop ordering 100 saigas and accessories at once... except that they are bigger dicks about it and insist on priority.

 

The market for 1 KA tappets is 1 saiga gun. If KA were able to go and get RAAC to include a KA tappet in every saiga they bring into the USA... I had no experience with Diavolo. I've had good and bad experiences with different vendors here. I'm sorry to see any of them go from the purely selfish reason that they represent a level of expertise that is now gone and if they all left, we wouldn't have an infrastrcture to even have this forum or this really cool machine gun emoticon....

Edited September 18, 2009 by EricinMaryland

[clifton 354]

Joe at KA is good people, and I continue to carry his products and in a way I guess he is not gone per say...

[bernerz 11]

My hat is off to anyone who is creative and industrious enough to try and produce something for the weapon that this forum is dedicated to.

[lakedweller 10]

And businesses have every right to ignore them if they are too busy to hold their hands. Until you have been on this side of it, and have dealt with some of these people, I wouldn't expect you to have a clue.

 

And we have every right to take our business elsewhere.

I have been on the other side and answered all questions and busted my ass to provide the service they deserved....

Edited September 19, 2009 by Lakedweller

[aresv 49]

I don't understand why people who order custom parts or custom work seem to think it's like going to the drive-thru or walking in to a supermarket. If you want something NOW, then call ahead and see if it's in stock. If it's not or it's custom made, then be prepared to wait or don't buy it.

 

 

What part of CUSTOM didn't King Armory understand? If you offer specialized modifications and custom work, expect customers to want to communicate with you. If you're too busy to get off your high horse and deal with customers, you don't deserve to HAVE customers.

 

On the other hand, if people were nagging just to get an ETA on an off the shelf part, KA has my sympathies.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

I don't understand why people who order custom parts or custom work seem to think it's like going to the drive-thru or walking in to a supermarket. If you want something NOW, then call ahead and see if it's in stock. If it's not or it's custom made, then be prepared to wait or don't buy it.

 

 

What part of CUSTOM didn't King Armory understand? If you offer specialized modifications and custom work, expect customers to want to communicate with you. If you're too busy to get off your high horse and deal with customers, you don't deserve to HAVE customers.

 

On the other hand, if people were nagging just to get an ETA on an off the shelf part, KA has my sympathies.

 

And that is EXACTLY where the problem lies! People get their CUSTOM orders in at the same time payment begins. If after that time they want to change their minds about what they ordered...and start NAGGING the business at hand, then that business has every right to shift their order to the back.

 

What part of CUSTOM don't you understand?

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

And businesses have every right to ignore them if they are too busy to hold their hands. Until you have been on this side of it, and have dealt with some of these people, I wouldn't expect you to have a clue.

 

And we have every right to take our business elsewhere.

I have been on the other side and answered all questions and busted my ass to provide the service they deserved....

 

Please do. You have no idea....

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

Cobra, I gotta say, your posts in this thread are no great enticement to order anything from you.. rather the opposite.

 

Now, I know that some customers are royal pains in the ass no matter how communicative and helpful you try to be.. they seem to expect what they ordered to be delivered the day before they ordered it. However, your example: "...I've had people order a part from me and then want a status report the next day. That shit is ridiculous", doesn't seem to be a very valid example of an unreasonable customer.

 

Nearly every single online business I've ever ordered from provided me some form of "status report" in the form of an email within several hours, (usually immediately afterward), of placing the order. This is usually an initial order confirmation, followed by a shipping notification as soon as the item/s ship. I don't know how you're defining "status report", but some communication from a vendor within a business day of placing an order with them is not too much to ask imo.

 

If I'm reading your example erroneously and you're talking about some customer burning up your phone line after you've just received the order and already confirmed to them that you've got it and are working on it, (with a realistic estimate given), then I apologize. But if you're bitching about a customer simply expecting some communication from you within 1 business day of submitting an order to you, (I don't expect instant reaction on weekends, except from Greg at CSS, he's in a class by himself), I have to disagree and say that I have the same reasonable expectation.

Edited September 21, 2009 by post-apocalyptic

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

People who have actually done business with me know how dedicated I am to providing valid information in a timely manner. Impatient people who order a custom made part, then want to hound you while you are working on it, or before you have even had a chance to start working on it, and think if they keep pushing your buttons it will actually expedite completion of said part, are living in a dream world and have no idea what it's like trying to actually get anything done if you have several (or many) people doing this at the same time. When you are a one man show like me, or even a small business like KA or others on this forum, there is not enough time in a day to get the work done AND constantly give people "updates" on your progress. I am not a large company with a huge inventory of items on a shelf. Don't even compare me to people like Greg at CSS. I am every bit as helpful and good at communication (and shipping if it's a part that is already in stock) as he is, but we are completely different types of vendors. Greg does not "make" the parts he sells. When you order a custom made part, or an entire custom built gun like some vendors here offer, you need to understand that once you have made up your mind what you want, and you pay for it, then it's time to sit on your hands and let the builder do his work. Pestering the crap out of them til they are so tired of hearing from you that they post something on their website like Joe did at KA, is NOT acceptable under any circumstances. THAT is my point. Don't make me sit here and defend my business against people like you saying you don't have warm fuzzies about ordering from me...not unless you fully understand just what it is I do and exactly what I'm saying. There are definitely a few people on this forum who because of their daily habits of smarting off to me about things, I would not even want to fill their orders. A company has every right to refuse service to individuals they deem as hard to deal with. If you take a few minutes and actually read all the great feedback I have received on this forum from very satisfied customers, you will get some idea of what it's like to do business with Cobra's Customs. As far as order confirmations go, I do my best to let every customer know that I have received their part to work on, or that I do or don't have their part in stock, started on, or almost finished. PM box is overflowing with such conversations, including many many back and forth emails from individual customers, and many long distance phone calls on beautiful Saturday afternoons, discussing in great detail what needs to be done. Please do not imply that I am not a good business, and don't talk smack about my friends in business (like KA and others here) unless you know what you are talking about. Racegal has also done an enormous amount of work with me in an attempt to keep all records straight and communicate with customers about their orders.

 

This whole thread is F'd up. Another reputable company was run off from here (quite obviously to me) by impatient people who pestered the crap out of them when they should have just been patient and waited. That pissed me off and I said something. There's no need for a Spanish Inquisition.