22" or 24" Saiga S-12

[Boba Debt 350]

Since I plan to cut down the barrel on my S-12 is there anything to watch for when buying a 22" or 24" barrel on an S-12

 

There are a few on GB right now and one has this in the description

 

"GR100 WITH GERMAN IMPORTER ROSJAGD GMBH MARKINGS ON RECEIVER "

 

Is this an issue?

 

What should I watch out for?

[Lone Star Arms 2,047]

Is the gun gas piston operated or manually operated? I ask because you may or may not have to have a look at the gas system. If it has been disabled, there's no point.

 

WS

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

If you're planning to cut down the barrel, why not just buy a IZ-109, (and cut on that if you want), to start with?

[Bvamp 604]

actually, that 22" gun there was made for german consumers and something happened with the law or contract with germany, and Clyde wound up taking them. I think he said that all of those went to one distributor. I am not sure, but I want to say that 1200 of these came in? Not exactly a common model, but its not rare, like the 12C is....

 

I cannot comment on issues this gun may or may not have, as CGW has not procured one for inspection at this point, and I dont think any have come in for warranty work, yet.....

[BobAsh 582]

actually, that 22" gun there was made for german consumers and something happened with the law or contract with germany, and Clyde wound up taking them. I think he said that all of those went to one distributor. I am not sure, but I want to say that 1200 of these came in? Not exactly a common model, but its not rare, like the 12C is....

 

I cannot comment on issues this gun may or may not have, as CGW has not procured one for inspection at this point, and I dont think any have come in for warranty work, yet.....

 

Ben,

 

How can they sell them without a US import stamp?

[Bvamp 604]

I think they are marked. Like I said, i ahvent seen one, so I cant really say much about them other than what I was told by the importer

[Bvamp 604]

no, you are right bob, the one on GB im looking at, i dont see RAAC marked on it.

 

good question.

[Lone Star Arms 2,047]

I was a bit confused at first and thought the post may have been from England. Brain fart... I was wondering what brit in his right mind would cut down a barrel with Britain's draconian gun laws.

 

But that begs another question. Do the German models have a fully functional gas system? Some of the European models I have seen in You Tube videos require one to manually rack the bolt carrier back to eject and reload (completely retarded). I also remember a post from a Frenchman who had an S12 with no gas ports. He was very keen to learn how many ports to drill, how large and at what angle.

 

Anyway, before you do anything else, I would check to make sure the guns have a fully functional factory gas system.

 

My two cents.

 

WS

[bigsky59721 3]

+1 "If you're planning to cut down the barrel, why not just buy a IZ-109, (and cut on that if you want), to start with?

"

 

Check out the "barrel length vs velocity" thread

[Boba Debt 350]

I can get one for about $80 less then the 19" barreled version.

 

 

If you're planning to cut down the barrel, why not just buy a IZ-109, (and cut on that if you want), to start with?

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

I can get one for about $80 less then the 19" barreled version.

 

 

If you're planning to cut down the barrel, why not just buy a IZ-109, (and cut on that if you want), to start with?

 

So what length would you be cutting a 22" or 24" barrel down to?

[Boba Debt 350]

It will be 18.5" long including the permanently attached flash suppressor

 

 

I can get one for about $80 less then the 19" barreled version.

 

 

If you're planning to cut down the barrel, why not just buy a IZ-109, (and cut on that if you want), to start with?

 

So what length would you be cutting a 22" or 24" barrel down to?

[scoutjoe 276]

I can get one for about $80 less then the 19" barreled version.

 

 

If you're planning to cut down the barrel, why not just buy a IZ-109, (and cut on that if you want), to start with?

 

$80 saved? well ok but if you start with a 22" or 24" gun and cut it down to 18.5" you're going to have to ret-hread the barrel (that is assuming you want threads) so you're going to have to rent/buy a tap. Depending on the line for the tap rental it could be awhile. Plus taking off that much barrel you're probably going to have to do gas system work.

 

When I cut down my 22" gun I went to 19"ish. I had to remove the full choke that was in there, then re-thread. The gun ran fine for about 200-300 rounds in a range session without cleaning. Over that amount I started to get stoppages. So enlarged the holes about 5 thousandths and drilled a small third one. Gun runs fine now.

 

I guess I'm just trying to say make sure its worth your $80 in time,tools and cursing at the gas block.

[Boba Debt 350]

I would cut a 19" barrel down to the total length of 18.5" (including the flash hider) so the money spent on that process will be spent no matter what size barrel I get.

 

 

 

$80 saved? well ok but if you start with a 22" or 24" gun and cut it down to 18.5" you're going to have to ret-hread the barrel (that is assuming you want threads) so you're going to have to rent/buy a tap. Depending on the line for the tap rental it could be awhile. Plus taking off that much barrel you're probably going to have to do gas system work.

 

When I cut down my 22" gun I went to 19"ish. I had to remove the full choke that was in there, then re-thread. The gun ran fine for about 200-300 rounds in a range session without cleaning. Over that amount I started to get stoppages. So enlarged the holes about 5 thousandths and drilled a small third one. Gun runs fine now.

 

I guess I'm just trying to say make sure its worth your $80 in time,tools and cursing at the gas block.

Edited October 4, 2009 by Boba Debt

[bc5000 26]

I've also been looking at these on Gunbroker. They are about the cheapest I've found so far. Would just like to know if there are any issues before I buy one.

[saigafreake 27]

so are you cutting the barrel under 18 inches yourself because i havent seen any saiga12 flash hiders under a couple inches.

[Nailbomb 10,221]

so are you cutting the barrel under 18 inches yourself because i havent seen any saiga12 flash hiders under a couple inches.

this is exacly the kind of question you shouldn't ask.

[GuyFoX 24]

What would be the point of all that work for 0.5"?(I guess a little more if that's including the flash hider) Can an inch or two really make a noticeable difference?

 

I would cut a 19" barrel down to the total length of 18.5" (including the flash hider) so the money spent on that posses will be spent no matter what size barrel I get.

Edited October 4, 2009 by GuyFoX

[Boba Debt 350]

Why is this a bad question.

 

I have seen several threads stating it is ok to cut a barrel down to 18" including the permanently attached muzzle device.

 

If I buy a 22 or 24" gun, I want to cut it down to 18.5 and then if I decide to go with a mid barrel compensator i was going to send it to Alex for that work and the flash hider work.

 

If there is something illegal about this let me know.

 

 

 

 

so are you cutting the barrel under 18 inches yourself because i havent seen any saiga12 flash hiders under a couple inches.

this is exacly the kind of question you shouldn't ask.

[Nailbomb 10,221]

Why is this a bad question.

 

I have seen several threads stating it is ok to cut a barrel down to 18" including the permanently attached muzzle device.

 

If I buy a 22 or 24" gun, I want to cut it down to 18.5 and then if I decide to go with a mid barrel compensator i was going to send it to Alex for that work and the flash hider work.

 

If there is something illegal about this let me know.

 

 

 

 

so are you cutting the barrel under 18 inches yourself because i havent seen any saiga12 flash hiders under a couple inches.

this is exacly the kind of question you shouldn't ask.

Well so long as your removing the barrel from the reciever while you do the work I don't believe there is a issue.

[r40734 19]

First, as stated above, ensure that it has a working gas system. The last thing you want is a single shot Saiga 12.

 

Second, if you plan on cutting the barrel anyway, then I would do as you plan and buy the cheapest model I could find. If it happens to be a 24" barrel, then you just get that much bigger of a souvenir when you're done. If you don't want the left over piece, I'll gladly take it off your hands

 

Third, you've clearly stated that you plan on permanently attaching a muzzle device; you don't need threads to do that. It costs you nothing to cut a barrel shorter if you don't plan on rethreading it. Personally, if it was going to be permanent, then I would just machine the muzzle device and barrel to a press fit tolerance and weld them in place. That process alone would be cheaper than rethreading the barrel.

 

In short, go for it. Post pictures when you're done.

[Boba Debt 350]

Thanks for the tip on the muzzle device.

 

It would be cheaper to remove the thread from a flash hider and press it in place then it would be to thread the barrel.

 

Tis also eliminates and barrel diameter issues, I was concerned that a 24" barrel would be larger in diameter then a 19" barrel at the point in which I wanted to install the flash hider

 

I'll be more that glad to send you the end of the barrel when I do my conversion

 

 

First, as stated above, ensure that it has a working gas system. The last thing you want is a single shot Saiga 12.

 

Second, if you plan on cutting the barrel anyway, then I would do as you plan and buy the cheapest model I could find. If it happens to be a 24" barrel, then you just get that much bigger of a souvenir when you're done. If you don't want the left over piece, I'll gladly take it off your hands

 

Third, you've clearly stated that you plan on permanently attaching a muzzle device; you don't need threads to do that. It costs you nothing to cut a barrel shorter if you don't plan on rethreading it. Personally, if it was going to be permanent, then I would just machine the muzzle device and barrel to a press fit tolerance and weld them in place. That process alone would be cheaper than rethreading the barrel.

 

In short, go for it. Post pictures when you're done.

[bc5000 26]

I'm still debating on whether to buy a 22" on Gunbroker. He charges a credit card fee and his website says all sales final.

I may spend another $50 for a factory fresh one from a company like Gilberts Guns or Miss. Auto Arms. That way I don't have to give my CC info to some stranger over the phone. I've heard that Gilberts ships promptly.

 

ETA: Just realized Miss. Auto Arms don't accept CC's for firearms.

Edited October 4, 2009 by bc5000

[Lone Star Arms 2,047]

Fifty bucks seems like a small premium to pay for peace of mind, a warranty, and customer service.

 

JMHO

 

WS

[Boba Debt 350]

I Just got a 22" Saiga 12 for $449.99 shipped and the seller included two 12 round Surefire mags for $40 each

 

I called him up and ask him about some of the concerns that were posted.

 

Here is what I was told:

 

They do have the RAA stamp

 

They do accept Sure Fire Mags

 

They cycle just like the 19" model

 

He said he has sold a lot of these and had no complaints so I'm pretty happy my decision to go with the 22" barrel.

 

And although saving $150 may not be be a big deal to some people it meant a lot to me.

[gtnichols 51]

You may need to push off the gas block and ream the ports or add another to get the low brass to cycle if the barrel is shortened.

[r40734 19]

I Just got a 22" Saiga 12 for $449.99 shipped and the seller included two 12 round Surefire mags for $40 each

 

I called him up and ask him about some of the concerns that were posted.

 

Here is what I was told:

 

They do have the RAA stamp

 

They do accept Sure Fire Mags

 

They cycle just like the 19" model

 

He said he has sold a lot of these and had no complaints so I'm pretty happy my decision to go with the 22" barrel.

 

And although saving $150 may not be be a big deal to some people it meant a lot to me.

Right on!

 

The gas block is easy to pull. The barrel itself is a little harder, if you go that route. Probe around in there and figure out how many ports it has; you might not have to do anything with the gas system if it already has a decent setup. Depending on what flash suppressor you plan on using I figure you'll be cutting off somewhere between 5 or 6 inches to bring it down to 18.25" total. If the gas system is at least 3 ports then you shouldn't really have any problems getting it to cycle properly.

 

Have fun!

 

P.S. $150 will buy a lot of ammo. I'm all for saving a buck where I can.

Edited October 7, 2009 by r40734

[stiletto raggio 20]

If this guy has plenty, I may just buy another on the cheap. But with the sales of new, professionally converted Saigas going for just over what I would pay for a Saiga and conversion parts (and often with a professional refinishing, whch I cannot do) I think my money is just as well spent elsewhere.

[Boba Debt 350]

I called him today to add 2 more mads to my order but I couldn't because he already shipped it and it should be at my FFL by tomorrow

 

I'm pretty happy about that.

 

I'm going to take it to the range and verify that it shoots like a standard 19" Saiga and I will post when I get back.

[vbrtrmn 167]

Don't forget to re-crown the barrel after you cut it.