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MD20 Ammo Table Guide - PDF attached!


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#61 King of the Hill

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 07:44 PM

Fiocchi #4 Buck Shot - 27 pellets(nickel plated) - 2 3/4" - 1325 fps - Fits in the MD20

Does anyone know when the last time the PDF was updated?
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#62 King of the Hill

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 06:08 PM

Had to bump, because it is so hard to find. Does anyone know when the last time this has been updated? :smoke:
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#63 FL Thunder Stick

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 12:19 AM

I decided to put a list together of all the ammo that is the correct length/crimp needed for the MD20. Please Do Not rely on this table just yet until others can confirm what I've put together. Please also post any brands/rounds not listed and I'll update the table as we go. If such a list alredy exists then the mods can delete but please send me the link.

This table is specifically related to the length/crimp needed and NOT whether a rounds cycles in your S12. I'm going to assume the addition of the Gunfixr Plug will eliminate that. I had to attach this as a PDF file because I wasn't able to keep the columns/formatting the same when I tried to copy and paste it.

Let's all share and make this a good resource for us all!



This list is incomplete. There are so many brands/types/loads that are missing!

What about Nobel Sport 2.75" #4?




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#64 Big June

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 01:04 AM

OO Buckshot (Winchester) 2 3/4, think FPS is 1350 not sure

Edited by Big June, 29 May 2011 - 01:05 AM.


#65 V8rx7ShotgunGuy

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 03:01 AM

need to keep this going lol

how did these work out? http://www.sgammo.co...5-inch-1400-fps
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#66 King of the Hill

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 03:15 AM

need to keep this going lol

how did these work out? http://www.sgammo.co...5-inch-1400-fps

I agree, and yes they do.
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#67 Joe D K

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 03:13 AM

need to keep this going lol

how did these work out? http://www.sgammo.co...5-inch-1400-fps


They worked fine for me last weekend. Full drum no issues

#68 sufi pirate

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 04:06 PM

Didn't fire or load the drum but Winchester PDX12 looked tight when I tried to stuff one or two in an otherwise full drum so I stopped.
Compared to Winchester SuperX 1.25oz/4 sitting on a shelf by eye it appeared to be more than 1/16" taller maybe a little more.
Mustn't bust the drum! :dollar:
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#69 Fapp3R

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 06:34 PM

i cant read this, my adobe for some reason on this computer seems to not ever wanna work, no matter how many updates i do

#70 Vermiform

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 06:04 PM

Why won't the MODS sticky this?
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"She is a hot, sexy little Russian that someone dressed up like a librarian. Strip those clothes off of her and let her hair down. She deserves to be a saucey, hotblooded Russian AK. When you shoot her, don't baby her. You can be rough with her, she likes it!"

#71 ChileRelleno

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 07:51 PM

bump
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#72 King of the Hill

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 08:35 AM

BTT for the new guys.
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#73 GunFun

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 09:44 PM

Nobelsport single .650 roundball clear hull roll crimped 1400 FPS 2 3/4" fits.

B&P 1oz rifled slugs 1200 FPS 2 3/4" just fits. (good luck getting this sweet shooting slug to cycle though)

F127RSX Federal Power*Shok maximum rifled slug HP 1610 FPS 2 3/4" fits.

Sadly the following do not fit:

Dupleks Hexolit32 1/18 oz segmented steel/poly slug. (and coolest civilian legal 12 gauge ammo ever)

nor does
Dupleks Dupo28 segmented steel/poly slug. (same as above but tuned for less violent expansion in big game.)



Anyone want to use google docs to start a shared spreadsheet that we can all add too?

Edited by GunFun, 16 September 2012 - 09:57 PM.


#74 Spartacus

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 01:10 PM

>>Anyone want to use google docs to start a shared spreadsheet that we can all add too?

Great idea, except make sure you keep lots of backups (that you'll need to restore every day).
You'll have the Beavis & Butthead types who will destroy the file just because they think it's funny.

Does Google docs have a read only mode for sharing?

If so, set it to read only for shared mode and just have a small group of people who can change it and update it.

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#75 Vermiform

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 09:48 PM

Bump and finding a mod to annoy until this is a sticky.

About to make a big ammo order and it took me 10 minutes to find this damn thread tonight.
"She is a hot, sexy little Russian that someone dressed up like a librarian. Strip those clothes off of her and let her hair down. She deserves to be a saucey, hotblooded Russian AK. When you shoot her, don't baby her. You can be rough with her, she likes it!"

#76 GunFun

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 12:29 AM

>>Anyone want to use google docs to start a shared spreadsheet that we can all add too?

Great idea, except make sure you keep lots of backups (that you'll need to restore every day).
You'll have the Beavis & Butthead types who will destroy the file just because they think it's funny.

Does Google docs have a read only mode for sharing?

If so, set it to read only for shared mode and just have a small group of people who can change it and update it.


yep. it's called google drive now though. I was just looking into this a couple days ago for just this reason.

#77 Vermiform

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 12:34 AM


>>Anyone want to use google docs to start a shared spreadsheet that we can all add too?

Great idea, except make sure you keep lots of backups (that you'll need to restore every day).
You'll have the Beavis & Butthead types who will destroy the file just because they think it's funny.

Does Google docs have a read only mode for sharing?

If so, set it to read only for shared mode and just have a small group of people who can change it and update it.


yep. it's called google drive now though. I was just looking into this a couple days ago for just this reason.


Keep us updated. This thread just saved me again from a $150 mistake.
"She is a hot, sexy little Russian that someone dressed up like a librarian. Strip those clothes off of her and let her hair down. She deserves to be a saucey, hotblooded Russian AK. When you shoot her, don't baby her. You can be rough with her, she likes it!"

#78 DNR

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 04:54 PM

Humm Sellier Bellot 2 3/4 fits 5 rnd factory mag and Pro-Mag 20 rnd drum - and cycles fine.

I wanted to warn - DO NOT try Duplek Monolit slugs - the 2 3/4" shells are really 2 7/8"! - They will work in 5 rnd factory mag, but jam the Pro-mag 20 rnd drum. In the 5 rnd mag, it cycles fine, muzzle flash noted. (steel slugs suck compared to lead slugs anyways.)

I shoot Winchester 00 and slugs, Federals, some high power bird shot. Some low brass, low recoil bird shot will fail to cycle. Gas port checked and fine.

DNR

#79 Jelly

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 10:54 PM

The MD drums are awesome. I've got two of them. Thanks for the extra info!
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#80 GunFun

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 01:32 AM

Link:
New Shared Universal Drum Compatibility Spreadsheet



Here's the deal. I've made a shared spreadsheet out of the previous two .pdf documents. I haven't taken the time to incorporate all the data from the rest of the thread. Anyone can access and ediit this spreadsheet. I will make periodic backups. The spreadsheet is on honor system. If you use the spreadsheet, consider that a commitment to add to or correct data about at least one item you have tried.

I particularly want the item number filled in, so we can know which shell you are talking about.
Example of useless information: "S&B OO buck didn't work" Useful information would need Item # , pellet count, and overall length.
That is actually un-helpful, because S&B makes many different OOB loads. Some will fit and some won't. We are trying to work out which is which. The item number matters because if you are buying in bulk online, it would be nice to know that we are looking at the S&B 9 Pellet OOB that fits rather than the S&B 9 Pellet OOB that doesn't fit.

See Row 6 for what a good entry should look like.


Also, if you have any of the promag drums, please fill in the max overall length numbers for those.

Shell length is to be measured from the primer to the furthest forward part of the crimp.
This table is talking about what fits and feeds through the drum.

If you have any of the ammo in the table, please fill in the item numbers and overall length info.

If you have any extra information about a particular load, right click on the name of the load after you enter it, and put that info into a comment. Example: I have a note on a B&P rifled slug that they feed through MD20 fine, but will not cycle almost any Saiga 12 due to low pressure.

I would really like to see oddball and specialty ammo/ foreign fancy stuff get filled in.

Thanks guys- I hope this will become a really developed resource.

Edited by GunFun, 11 November 2012 - 05:00 AM.

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#81 GunFun

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 05:07 AM

p.s. PM me if you have any issues or questions about using this.

#82 evlblkwpnz

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 09:37 PM

It has been a long time since I shot the original PDX ammo, but I could have sworn I was shooting it from one of my MD-20s. Maybe I can take Dick Hammett (retired president of Winchester) shooting again soon and talk him into bringing an assortment of Winchester ammo. I am about to finish his pool soon.
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#83 DNR

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:42 AM

spread sheet worked for me -
FIXED

I input :

MD20 accepts 2.25" shells, This is the length of a US made 12 gauge shell (Winchester, Remington) UNFIRED.
Duplek 28 marked 2 3/4" is already 2 1/2ths of a inch UNFIRED. Treat like a 3" shell.



I input:

duplex 32 as I measured 2 7/8" on 4 boxes. This was UNFIRED LENGTH - should be 2.25th of a inch UNFIRED to work in MD20/ProMag 20.

It is b.s. to claim that 2 7/8" is a european measure for 2 3/4" - they print on the box 2 3/4". That is sloppy tolerances.

to note the UNFIRED 2 1/2" shells will feed via factory 5 rnd mag, and cycle ok.

Edited by DNR, 13 November 2012 - 09:57 AM.


#84 Nephilim7

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 06:37 PM

Are the duplex roll crimped? It is my understanding that is usually the issue with being long on 2 3/4" shells. The roll crimp makes more length compared to a star crimp. The 2 3/4" designation is of a fired hull overall length. The loaded shell should not be 2 3/4" long... Thanks for adding your info! Thanks especially to the OP and to GunFun for taking this to the next level!

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#85 GunFun

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 12:00 AM

I'm glad people are interested. It would be nice if a Moderator would maybe put a link in the top post. I've got some misgivings about having the link separated from the instructions though. A few careless people with good intentions could ruin the list my mixing in untrustworthy information. If that happens, I'll have to revert to a saved copy. I'll look into whether google has the equivalent of "change tracking." (which lets you see who changed what, and accept or reverse changes by user.)

DNR--

You need to understand that putting 2 3/4" on the package is not saying that the shell as loaded measures 2.75". What that is saying is that the maximum shell length after firing and unfolding (or unrolling) the crimp is 2 3/4" or less, and the pressures conform to SAAMI max limits.

Every brand varies greatly, and all 2 3/4" ammo when it is crimped is going to measure less than 2.75" Ditto for 3" ammo.

That planned variation is the whole reason this table exists.

Forgive me if this sounds insulting, but did you actually measure the 2 7/8" shell or just observe that it looked about an eighth longer than another 2 3/4" shell that fit in the drum?

Nephilim -- DDupleks ammo is roll crimped onto the large Meplat of the steel slug with out a spacer or lid. The measurements I put in there were done with a digital caliper.


The golden rule for this is
accurate information or none at all.

When we put overall length into this table, let's be precise, not rounding to gross numbers. I'd prefer to stick to metric just for simplicity. That way, someone can filter the list to show all shells above or below the length that will fit in their magazine. (I figure this might also help Adkal guys know what will work with their 2 3/4" mags) Measure the shell using calipers, or by standing it on a flat surface and sliding a square down until it rests. That will give us good numbers.

The two most useful things in the whole chart are the item # and the overall length. If you have those things, you can look up all the other info and know whether what you are buying will work or not.


There is still one huge gap in the information here that is immensely practical-- I am sure all of us have had a situation where we needed to use 30-40 door breacher shells in one breif event, but we just weren't sure which ones to buy. I know that happens to me about once a week, It's about time this forum came through with some information that everyone can use.
Come on folks, let's figure out which breacher rounds are MD freindly.

Oh, and more info on a few of the cheap game loads that people blow on the range could be helpful too. I guess.

Companies like RIO and centurian offer lots of fairly similar loads with similar descriptions and slightly different components that are cheap to blast at the range. There is surprisingly little about them in here. I don't see blowing through 20 Rem Sluggers in one go at the range, but I've got some nobelsport roundball that cost about the same as bulk pack. That I don't mind putting into a drum and seeing how quickly I can shatter 20 clays on a hillside with.

Edited by GunFun, 13 November 2012 - 12:19 AM.


#86 Vermiform

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 12:39 AM

I'm glad people are interested. It would be nice if a Moderator would maybe put a link in the top post. I've got some misgivings about having the link separated from the instructions though.


PM Indie, he is the one that pinned this topic for us. Or since you have all the info compiled, we could get him to unpin this one and you could start a new thread. The mods here have much to keep up with and probably won't see the added posts here. Make sure you are religious about backing that thing up periodically too. Oh, there is one more thing that needs to be said. Thank you for taking the time to do this.

This 00 buck from Estate runs smooth and I trust it for my main drum load out:
http://www.cabelas.c...80;cat104567580

EDITED TO ADD THAT IT RUNS SMOOTH IN MY 3 PROMAG 12 ROUNDS DRUMS.

Edited by Vermiform, 13 November 2012 - 12:41 AM.

"She is a hot, sexy little Russian that someone dressed up like a librarian. Strip those clothes off of her and let her hair down. She deserves to be a saucey, hotblooded Russian AK. When you shoot her, don't baby her. You can be rough with her, she likes it!"

#87 GunFun

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 12:51 AM

That's a thought. I could write up the instructions better, with a couple of pics of information on the box lid, how to measure, etc. Get everything needed put into one post.

Then we could just lock it down with only the one useful post and all the updates in the table.

There are about 3 pages of data in this thread that need to be input into the table.

FYI guys, to add a row, click the marker on the left edge of that row, right click, then select [insert column].
You can copy a whole row by highlighting the column underneath and hitting [ctrl +d]
Make sure you only do this on blank rows.
If you make a mistake, do not save. Just Stop what you are doing and PM me with what happened and I will try to fix it.

#88 GunFun

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 12:58 AM

Does anyone have dimensions for max shell length on the Maxrounds or AA drums? I forgot about those. Not looking to drag up a discussion of the flaws in those here, I just want to clean up the header to show max length for each of the drums to help the most people.

I'd even be OK with putting a comment on the daewoo AR shotty drum's capacity and the AA12, etc. There will be room for Cameron's silly drum if he ever gets it out of CAD into existence. There would be room for his snail drum in my closet if he made it.

#89 GunFun

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 01:08 AM

Google lets me open it up to everyone, or have change tracking. not both. I'll try to back up from time to time, but I expect to forget. By all means download the chart so that you back up a current version on you hard drive before you do a bunch of changes. Also PM me if you put in a bunch of data and I will download the document so that I have a backup with your work.

I will trust people not to make too much of a mess. Alternately, I can set it to locked down but add editors one at a time. I'll do that if we have a problem, but that is a last resort. Probably that will only be needed in the case of vandals.

If in doubt, leave it out.

#90 DNR

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 09:37 AM

I measured - want a photo of it?
Posted Image


Here is the Duplek unfired measuring 2 1/2th..When I held a Dupleks up to a US made round , it was actually a quarter inch difference - very noticeable - so I measured with a ruler.

Really unfired 12 gauge shells are about 2 and quarter inches, when fired, the crimp rolls out to make 2 3/4ths total length of the shell.Winchester slugs measured 2 and quarter inches before firing, same as Remington shell - 2 and quarter inches with little variations - 1/32, 1/16th.

The Dupleks Monolit 28 UNFIRED is already 2 1/2ths long - WITH those quality control issues of being 1/8th or 1/16th longer than 2 1/2" .The duplek shell marked "2 3/4" is not 2 and quarter inches UNFIRED like Winchester and Remington.

The Pro-Mag expected that you will be putting UNFIRED shells into your drum rated '2 3/4th inch shells' - that were supposed to at unfired length of about 2 and quarter inches - NOT fired shells that measure 2 1/2ths with the crimp rolled out (more or less)
I also measured the ProMag Drum - the black round follower was taken out and measured - it was about 2 and a quarter inches - about the same size as a US made 12 gauge shell. The follower has about .5th of an inch of play. The actual opening inside the drum is almost 2 and 3/4ths of an inch. I did not use a micrometer or lab grade ruler - so give or take 1/32 of an inch. The Drum allows for out of spec ammunition - as long as it is between 2 and quarter inches and 2 1/2ths of an inch.So ProMag drums for 2 3/4 were meant to feed unfired shells that measure about 2 and a quarter.
If you want to use Dupleks 28 "2 3/4" - treat it like a 3" round - don't feed it in mags that say "2 3/4" shells.

I try to explain my POV, but it will always be subjective - "oh but it worked for me!"

Edited by DNR, 13 November 2012 - 09:58 AM.





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