saiga to much recoil?

[JOCELLO15 2]

hey guys new to the forum however i have had saiga,s for some time now.my question is i took my new saiga 12 to the range yesterday and it put a nice bruise on my shoulder immidiatly and i felt like the recoil was a bit to much for normal.my gas setting is on #1 so i know its not that any help would be much app.by the way no i am not a wimp i am a fairly large guy and have shot large cal weapons before it just feels like way to much recoil for a 12 gauge

[BobAsh 582]

Semi-autos in general have less recoil that pumps. I find the Saiga recoil to be pretty mild as 12-gauges go.

 

Since this is largely an issue of perception, I'm guessing you were running hotter/heavier ammo than you usually use, or the gun you're used to is heavier than the Saiga. Or both.

[JOCELLO15 2]

bob, thanks for the fast response i dont think i was shooting to high powered of a shell i was using 00 2 3/4 buck. i litarly had to take a break becuase it hurt so bad i was thinking mabye it was a gas problem but i am no expert

[hobbyshooter 59]

bob, thanks for the fast response i dont think i was shooting to high powered of a shell i was using 00 2 3/4 buck. i litarly had to take a break becuase it hurt so bad i was thinking mabye it was a gas problem but i am no expert

What gas setting was the gun on?

[GerryV 14]

Not sure what the deal is as I always hear about how little recoil there is, but mine would bruise me up pretty bad. I added an AK style recoil pad and that made all the difference and I can shoot all day now with no bruising or any discomfort.

Edited February 22, 2010 by GerryV

[JOCELLO15 2]

thanks gerry i have a tapco stock on the gun and it has a nice rubber buttpad that is comfy but the gun is kickin the crap out of me mabye they marked my gas settings wrong from the factory? i have it on 1 like everyone says but somthing feels wrong

[GerryV 14]

thanks gerry i have a tapco stock on the gun and it has a nice rubber buttpad that is comfy but the gun is kickin the crap out of me mabye they marked my gas settings wrong from the factory? i have it on 1 like everyone says but somthing feels wrong

 

 

Which Tapco stock? If it's that T-6 model with the AR style pad, that one would bruise the heck out of me also. Here's the one that I'm using now.

[Lone Star Arms 2,047]

Semi-autos in general have less recoil that pumps. I find the Saiga recoil to be pretty mild as 12-gauges go.

 

Since this is largely an issue of perception, I'm guessing you were running hotter/heavier ammo than you usually use, or the gun you're used to is heavier than the Saiga. Or both.

 

What Bob said

[misternt 3]

Semi-autos in general have less recoil that pumps. I find the Saiga recoil to be pretty mild as 12-gauges go.

 

Since this is largely an issue of perception, I'm guessing you were running hotter/heavier ammo than you usually use, or the gun you're used to is heavier than the Saiga. Or both.

 

What Bob said

 

Could also be the way you hold it against your shoulder. If you're not holding it tight you'll leave a gap. Then every time you fire it'll be kicking you in the shoulder. I have fired 3 inch slugs out of my saiga with no bruising.

[JOCELLO15 2]

thank u guys so much for all the replys mabye i am holding it wrong it is the t-6 my i just thought there was a problem because i have other 12 gauges that are pumps and they dont kick like this one does using the same ammo

[ThirtyAughtSix 101]

I have noticed that the T6 stock on unconverted Saiga's has a really weird angle to it, the sort of angle that gun people know will hurt more because its not concentric or whatever to the bore. That is probably what is going on, with the gas system, I can shoot the Saiga 308 all day without one little bit of recoil. I have also shot it with only one hand on the pistol grip and it not shoulder, didn't even phase me. If you can post a picture of your Saiga I'm sure we could get to the bottom of this.

[vinnivanhood 17]

Even with 3"Fed Premiums 000 or slugs I dont have near the kick of anyother shotgun Ive shot.

I'm curious if maybe its over-gassed, how far is it ejecting the shells?

[JOCELLO15 2]

YEAH I THINK IT IS OVERGASSED TOO IT IS FLINGING SHELLS PRETTY FAR NO FTE OR FTF BUT MAN EVERY SHOT HURTS I HAVE A 12 ROUND MAG AND COULD ONLY SHOOT 2 MAGS AND I HAD TO STOP BUMS ME OUT CUS I LOVE THIS GUN

[JOCELLO15 2]

NOW I HAVE TO WAIT TO GO SHOOTIN AGAIN CUS EVERY BLOODVESSEL IN MY SHOULDER HAS BURST AND IS ALL BRUISED AND LIKE I SAID IM 6,2 205 SO FOR IT TO DO THAT TO ME I THINK SOMTHIN HAS TO BE UP ALSO I DONT WANT TO DAMAGE MY GUN BY IT SHOOTING SO VIOLENTLY

Edited February 22, 2010 by PUNISHER15

[HOWARD COSELL 155]

Maybe a different stock might help.

http://store.carolin...ry-Stock/Detail

The Limbsaver is definitely a Limb saver.

 

Welcome to the forum

[Paulyski 2,227]

Just take it out with a few friends that you don't want to look like a puss in front of & you'll find that you'll get used to it quick.

Pride has a way of making one grow a pair.

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

 

BTW, I run an AKM stock, the're among the most painful to shoot. And yes, the capillaries in my shoulder rupture leaving a mark of pride every time I take it out for a while.

As a consolation, if you ever need to use it for defense, the adrenaline will make the recoil hardly noticeable.

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FreLFK8WXBg

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQJSZs-euZU

Edited February 22, 2010 by Paulyski

[scarbrough68289 76]

Shoot my Marlin Guide Gun 45-70 (500gr. Buffalo Bore) for reference of recoil. Even after shooting Magnum slugs the Marlin makes me hate her ever time I shoot it. More of a Love/Hate. I still love her. Most shoot it and say "fuck that thing" and hand it back to me.

Edited February 22, 2010 by obake

[JOCELLO15 2]

thanx for all the replies guys guess i will have to test her out more and mabye get used to it alittle more she is a monster though all the cops at the range qualifying were givin me the stink eye lol!!!!

[patriot 7,197]

...Try an H&R single shot with a heavy slug load off a bench sometime...

 

It jars your entire skeleton, makes your head hurt inside and feels like someone took your bones out and slammed them into a stone wall.

 

F'n NASTY! NOT fun!

 

...of course it's fun to keep such a combination on hand for those "tough guys" who say they'll shoot anything and recoil doesn't bother them!

 

After that...nothing else seems to kick anymore!

[vinnivanhood 17]

YEAH I THINK IT IS OVERGASSED TOO IT IS FLINGING SHELLS PRETTY FAR NO FTE OR FTF BUT MAN EVERY SHOT HURTS I HAVE A 12 ROUND MAG AND COULD ONLY SHOOT 2 MAGS AND I HAD TO STOP BUMS ME OUT CUS I LOVE THIS GUN

maybe your gas adjuster isn't screwed in far enough and its leaving the ports open as if on setting #2 when on #1?

I just posted the other day about mine being screwed in too far having the opposite effect.

You definitely don't want to keep shooting if it is over-gassed or you'll really mess it up eventually!

[G O B 3,516]

Sounds like the stock does not fit you. Try a slip on pad, and be sure that after you put the stock into your shoulder, you roll your shoulder into the stock! If you are 'pushing ' the stock with your shoulder you will recoil WITH the gun. If not the gun will recoil into you, like getting hit with a hammer.

[Lone Star Arms 2,047]

hey guys new to the forum however i have had saiga,s for some time now.my question is i took my new saiga 12 to the range yesterday and it put a nice bruise on my shoulder immidiatly and i felt like the recoil was a bit to much for normal.my gas setting is on #1 so i know its not that any help would be much app.by the way no i am not a wimp i am a fairly large guy and have shot large cal weapons before it just feels like way to much recoil for a 12 gauge

 

Punisher. If your gun is beating the crap out of you, by all means go to a lighter load! A fast firing box fed semi auto shotgun will shoot stuff meant for single, and double barreled breech loaders, but bear in mind that stuff is meant to maximize impact with a gun that has extremely limited ammo capacity, and yours will put a hail of lead downrange in much larger quantities, much faster, on target, if you work within the intended capacities of ammo it was meant to shoot.

 

All of the vids I have seen from Izhmash use higher brass ammo, but nowhere near the kind of fire power you are putting in that beast of yours! I can remember when I first started shooting S12's, I swaggered in to the gun store and bought the most powerful turkey loads I could find (3" magnum). Well, I want to tell you... I did you one better buddy. I didn't have the gun planted properly against my shoulder, and the gun came back and hit me in the bridge of the nose with the folding stock hinge.

 

You should have seen the look on my friends face when the blood came gushing out! I still laugh my ass off every time I think about it! Anyway, I just stuck a whole paper towel on there, and continued to empty the mag.... When I was finished I could tell my friend thought I was REALLY crazy.

 

I offered to let him shoot a mag of the stuff, and he just shook his head. That day, he was a hell of a lot smarter than I was....

 

When I got home my wife asked me what had happened to my nose, and I said "nothing". She didn't buy it.

 

LMAO!!! at myself. Hang in there buddy, and welcome to the forum!

 

Mike

[Razorback 72]

My 1st experience with a 12 gauge was equally punishing. I was 7 and held the gun about an inch or two off my shoulder and I had a very clear buttstock shaped bruise for show and tell on Monday morning at school. I then went for the Springfield single shot 45-70 next time out. Steel butt plate and 21 inch barrel, after starting out with lots of recoil, now I just cringe a little when I drop the hammer on my 300 weatherby with 180 grain bullets, it out kicks anything I have ever shot.

 

The S-12 I have is pretty light on the recoil side, the T-6 interfuse stock, buttpad, and Tromix Shark muzzlebreak help tame the recoil pretty effectively. I would recommend a muzzle break, it seems like it is supposed to cut the recoil about 40% (?), and I know I can tell a big difference with it on there. Starting with lower powered loads and working up to the high brass over time might also help you to get used to how the gun kicks. But don't let it scare you off, it's a great platform and really a whole lot of fun to shoot once you find the loads that you and your gun like.

[JOCELLO15 2]

GUYS THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL UR HELP I FEEL MUCH BETTER NOW THAT I HAVE HEARD SOMTHINGS THAT I CAN TRY.I CHECKED THE GUN LAST NIGHT TOOK OUT GAS PLUG AND SCREWED IT IN ALL THE WAY THE FIRST STOP AFTER THAT IS TWO SO I TURNED IT A HALF TURN OUT TO ONE SO THAT SHOULD BE OK I WAS USING WINCHESTER MILITARY LOADS 2 3/4 00 BUCK MABYE THAT SHELL IS JUST NOT THE SAIGAS CUP OF TEA SO IM GONNA TRY SOME S&B NEXT TIME.DONT WORRY GUYS I WONT BE BACKING DOWN I LOVE THIS BEAST WAY TO MUCH.IF THERE IS ANYBODY IN THE NEW JERSEY OCEAN COUNTY AREA I WOULD LIKE SOME EXPERIANCED INSTRUCTION I HAVE A MEMBERSHIP TO A INDOOR RANGE NEAR ME AND CAN GET IN A FRIEND FOR FREE PLEASE LET ME KNOW IT WOULD BE MUCH APPRICIATED

[saiga wannabe1 0]

thanks gerry i have a tapco stock on the gun and it has a nice rubber buttpad that is comfy but the gun is kickin the crap out of me mabye they marked my gas settings wrong from the factory? i have it on 1 like everyone says but somthing feels wrong

 

 

Which Tapco stock? If it's that T-6 model with the AR style pad, that one would bruise the heck out of me also. Here's the one that I'm using now.

 

 

what kind of pad is that????

[Bvamp 604]

I was out with a member here just the other day, fixing their shotgun for them. I asked him if he ever even tried 3" loads....well you know I just HAD to let him try some 3" 15 pellet buckshot when he said that he had not. The first shot, he caught himself in the lip with either his optic or the rear of the dustcover....it gave him a good knock the first shot.

 

Also, he was having some cycling issues with light loads once the gun was put to warranty spec, and ran just fine for me. So I look a look at his grip on the gun, and such, and he was holding it firmly, but not quite so good into his shoulder. I had him adjust how he was shooting slightly, getting his gun more into his shoulder, and turning his trigger hand's elbow tword the ground more, for a more positive stance and weld on the gun to his shoulder and presto! problem solved.

 

This same thing will also help you absorb the heavier loads a little better.

 

if you put your fingers over your muscle on your shoulder where you mount the gun, and move your elbow up and down with your hand positioned as if you had the trigger in your hand, you will feel the difference in how much of your shoulder is in contact with the buttstock on any long arm, as well as the exact spot that you should have the stock.

 

It sure sounds to me like your elbow is more horizontal than vertical, and the butt is slightly off center of where it should be in your shoulder.

 

Turning your shoulder slightly into the gun (if you are not firing in a reverse fashion, such as a righty with a left dominant eye) will also offer more surface area on your shoulder to mount to, and will also get it off your face a bit, as well as give your body a little more room to act as a shock absorber.

 

Im attaching a picture of me in "mid-swing" with a FA 12 (manufactured by Mr Tom Cole of Cadiz Gun Works) running 3" buckshot with an AMD65 folding stock. If you dont mount the gun this way, and hang onto it, it will kick the crap out of you, no matter what way you have your saiga12 set up.

 

have someone either photograph you right as you pull the trigger, or take a short video clip of you, and see if your posture is off before looking at the gun itself. if you only mount the stock on edge into part of your shoulder, its going to hurt like hell....you can see the difference in the effect of recoil on people in the second video paulinski posted, with the only guys holding that gun properly being the only ones that dont go on their asses.

 

you probably arent experiencing this with your traditionally shaped stocked guns because it FEELS like you are mounting it the same with the military type stock, but arent.

[JOCELLO15 2]

thanx bvamp i will give that a def try next time im out good technique is the key with anything!!!

[GerryV 14]

what kind of pad is that????

 

 

AK recoil pad from Carolinas Shooters Supply

 

http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-363/AK47-Saiga-Orignal-Recoil/Detail

Edited February 23, 2010 by GerryV

[Loveless 7]

I took mine out the first time and it kicked surprisingly hard on Estate Target loads while the factory stock was on it.

 

A week later I put a "Draganuv style" Thumbhole stock on it (looks nothing like the original Dragunuv rifle stock actually) and took it into the woods with a bunch of friends using the same Estate ammo and it was completely different. Way lighter kick.

 

I had my friend's cheap pump that happened to have a similar stock to the factory Saiga stock, standard shotgun stock. Everyone was putting his down after a couple shots cause it hurt their shoulder and waiting in line to fire mine again. Unloading clips and laughing, enjoying themselves with the fast rate of fire. Especially the girls we were with wanted to keep shooting the Saiga! We went through a case of shells.

 

I think the grips, thumbhole or pistol grip like AKs had on them in the first place, GREATLY reduce the perceived recoil because your hand and arm are buffering the kick instead of the full force slamming into your shoulder! It's also easier to hold against your shoulder so there isn't any gap to slam into that can more than bruise your shoulder. I've had friends (correction, acquaintances) dislocate a shoulder or break their arm from holding a shotgun wrong.

 

Just my experience and thoughts. Have fun and try different things until you find what you like. With Religion, Guns, Cars, or Women... Always keep an open mind, because I think you should enjoy what YOU like when you like it and your tastes may change over time. Set it up how you like it now and if you feel like changing something later, change it.

 

-Loveless