Bullet Guide and J.B. Weld!!

[chevyman097 2,579]

Its still Ghetto no matter how many excuses you make.....it would actually be less work to just put the real bullet guide in.....

 

 

 

edited redneck for "ghetto" because I dont even think a redneck would do that.

Edited April 8, 2010 by Chevyman097

[Mossberg Man 1]

Its still Ghetto no matter how many excuses you make.....it would actually be less work to just put the real bullet guide in.....

 

 

 

edited redneck for "ghetto" because I dont even think a redneck would do that.

 

I think someone needs a hug.....

[KrisFox 69]

Ok, I've watched this thread progress since posting the first comment.

 

I'm going to do a test JB vs Screw vs Rivet.

 

But how should I beat on the bullet guide to provide realistic results for it's long term durability?

 

Bake the rifle to bring the the guide up to max temp it would see during bump fire?

 

Powder solvent, break cleaner, #9, WD-40 soak overnight?

 

Smack it with a punch in a way that simulates bullets feeding but 10-100 times more force?

 

 

 

That said, I think a Rivet is the best way to go, but I do like the idea of using JB as a filler to keep rust from forming between the guide and the trunnion.

[Mossberg Man 1]

Well I just got my E-mail today from Brian at Dinzag Arms and my guide is on the way, like I said I will post pics of the install and even put vids up of the range test, I am now hell bent on making this work!! So stay tuned and I will keep everyone posted as best I can.

[BobAsh 582]

Sure! And when you drive to the post office to pick it up, make sure you don't wear a seat belt.

 

 

 

 

(The above post is all in good fun. Although I think it's silly to use play-doh on a gun, I really don't care what you do.)

[Mossberg Man 1]

Sure! And when you drive to the post office to pick it up, make sure you don't wear a seat belt.

 

 

 

 

(The above post is all in good fun. Although I think it's silly to use play-doh on a gun, I really don't care what you do.)

 

Seatbelt? I ride a little pink tricycle with a pinwheel beanie, yelling "franks and beans"!!!....

[SaigaNoobie 66]

What does a screw do? Holds the Bullet guide down onto the receiver.

 

What does JB Weld do? Holds the Bullet guide down onto the receiver.

 

 

Sad thing is, I've had more screws back-out of holes than JB weld come off. . . . IN fact I've never had JB weld come off of ANYTHING on its own. There's a reason we loctite screws. IMO a screw is used so you can take something back off later. Otherwise super-glue/weld/jbweld it on.

 

Krisfox, I support your experiment!

[BobAsh 582]

What does a screw do? Holds the Bullet guide down onto the receiver.

 

What does JB Weld do? Holds the Bullet guide down onto the receiver.

 

Either this statement it intended to be ironic, or you don't really have a concept of the forces that are in play in this dynamic system.

[Schneiderman 2]

With so much doubt surrounding the capability of JB weld I am starting to want to see some evidence supporting the claims that JB weld is not up to the very, very simple task of holding one piece of metal to another piece of metal while a relatively small amount of force is going to be applied directly to that piece of metal. The same job that we are trusting a very small screw to do instead- a screw small enough that everyone would probably break it if it used a bolt head instead of an allen head.

Edited April 9, 2010 by Schneiderman

[SaigaNoobie 66]

BINGO Schneiderman.

 

in 1.6mm sheet metal too! That's what? 2 or 3 threads at the most? PSH.

[SaigaNoobie 66]

What does a screw do? Holds the Bullet guide down onto the receiver.

 

What does JB Weld do? Holds the Bullet guide down onto the receiver.

 

Either this statement it intended to be ironic, or you don't really have a concept of the forces that are in play in this dynamic system.

 

Enlighten me Bob

 

As far as I can tell all the forces on chambering are towards the barrel (Which the BG can't move in that direction because it's touching the barrel already) and all the forces on recoil are rearward, which, actually the BG would resist the recoil pulse, thus wanting to move forward again. IN fact, I'm thinking you don't need much to hold a BG in place. Maybe some double-sided tape?

 

Nothing wants the BG to move backwards. All the forces are down and forward and it can't move in that direction at all.

 

I don't see the issue.

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

If we're talking Saiga 7.62x39 rifle receivers, they're 1mm thick, not 1.6mm, SaigaNoobie.

 

My bullet guide is rivetted in.

[SaigaNoobie 66]

LOL my bad. 1mm thick :-P

[FluffRat 1]

If you drilled all the way through the bottom of the receiver you went too far, SaigaNoobie.

 

I dunno, I think if I were going to use epoxy I'd probably drill the trunnion anyway just to give it something to hold onto if the bond ever did crack loose.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

BINGO Schneiderman.

 

in 1.6mm sheet metal too! That's what? 2 or 3 threads at the most? PSH.

 

Exactly why I use the JB, its better than a screw since the adhesion is distributed across a much larger surface. This thing comes up about every few months and always goes exactly like this one. Rivet is better than a screw also. The only thing with substances like JB is that you just cant be sloppy because they call it weld for a good reason.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

Ok, I've watched this thread progress since posting the first comment.

 

I'm going to do a test JB vs Screw vs Rivet.

 

But how should I beat on the bullet guide to provide realistic results for it's long term durability?

 

Bake the rifle to bring the the guide up to max temp it would see during bump fire?

 

Powder solvent, break cleaner, #9, WD-40 soak overnight?

 

Smack it with a punch in a way that simulates bullets feeding but 10-100 times more force?

 

 

 

That said, I think a Rivet is the best way to go, but I do like the idea of using JB as a filler to keep rust from forming between the guide and the trunnion.

 

That works too like I said. If JB was play-doh it wouldn't be in so many tool boxes. You want to test it I believe we came up with less than 250 degF for temp at the bg . The specs for JB are on their web site and its spec is roughly 500 degF iirc which is why it works on engine blocks and radiators so well. There is even a marine version that works really well on hulls and such.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

With so much doubt surrounding the capability of JB weld I am starting to want to see some evidence supporting the claims that JB weld is not up to the very, very simple task of holding one piece of metal to another piece of metal while a relatively small amount of force is going to be applied directly to that piece of metal. The same job that we are trusting a very small screw to do instead- a screw small enough that everyone would probably break it if it used a bolt head instead of an allen head.

 

It was more a matter of heat than force last time and JB far exceeds any temp found outside the chamber on the high end or extreme cold on the other. Some were doubtful over the constant temp changes but again since JBs characteristics are so close to metal any problem with it would be there for screws and rivets.

 

Now weather is really really nice today and Im going to the range all I can before it gets hot down here.

[555JM 10]

I can see where this is going Moss-Man. You'll JB Weld the thing in. It'll be good and stay that way for years. Then, one day you'll get to thinking, you've been lucky so far and really should do it right....so you'll drill and tap the hole and use the screw.

 

Then, one day when you least expect/want it, the gun will stop because the screw backed out. Oops! Forgot the Loctite.

Bob

[KrisFox 69]

I can see where this is going Moss-Man. You'll JB Weld the thing in. It'll be good and stay that way for years. Then, one day you'll get to thinking, you've been lucky so far and really should do it right....so you'll drill and tap the hole and use the screw.

 

Then, one day when you least expect/want it, the gun will stop because the screw backed out. Oops! Forgot the Loctite.

Bob

 

[chevyman097 2,579]

Never had a problem with mine, and I didnt forget the loctite. No screws backing out for me.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

I can see where this is going Moss-Man. You'll JB Weld the thing in. It'll be good and stay that way for years. Then, one day you'll get to thinking, you've been lucky so far and really should do it right....so you'll drill and tap the hole and use the screw.

 

Then, one day when you least expect/want it, the gun will stop because the screw backed out. Oops! Forgot the Loctite.

Bob

That sounds like my luck to use locktite and still have it back out because I used the once that melts at operating temp and the screw gets pushed into the chamber into the bore and boom no barrel. Seriously that is why I wont go near a casino.

[storm1 2]

JB Weld the BG in place, use it for a drill guide, drill & tap the trunnion, and then use the screw too. Belt and suspenders. Why bother using a nut for a drill guide if the BG can serve the same purpose?

 

If it ever starts to loosen, just tighten the screw.

 

i was reading this, im about to do the bullet guide on my saiga, and i was thinking the same thing...

[BobAsh 582]

I don't see the issue.

 

Here's the thing; I have a degree in mechanical engineering so maybe it's more obvious to me than it is to you. I'd say the biggest hurdles in this design are the thermal issues (not it's heat resistance as previously mentioned...expansion coefficient problems are hard on bond joints) and the high number of cycles.

 

You're contemplating building something cheaper and weaker than the way it's normally done. There's no need to justify it to me or anyone else. If that's the way you build your shit, go for it, but if you're going to use glue at least use something better suited to the job. I would suggest an acrylic.

[my762buzz 141]

The last time I wanted to remove JB weld that was stuck on something I heated the part to 300 F and it was soft enough to come apart.

I'm not sure how hot the trunnion will get in normal firing. The inside of a car down in the south in the summer can easily exceed 200 F.

Why take a chance?

[Lone Star Arms 2,047]

OK. Can't stand it anymore. It isn't necessarily heat which overcomes the elasticity of epoxy resin compounds like "JB Weld", it is the rapid expansion and contraction characteristics of the surrounding materials being very different from the composite material "JB Weld" which stresses, and ultimately defeats the molecular bond or "weld". It does not expand - contract - move at a similar rate and the stress causes failure (see "Haiti" - "Concrete" - "Earthquake" - Wikipedia).

 

As long as the surrounding materials are relatively stable - no problem. BUT, when metals are expanding and contracting rapidly and the "weld" is not able to keep up - you got problems.

 

I agree with Bob 100% on this one. If one chooses to experiment with the characteristics/qualities of JB weld, it should probably not involve the action of a firearm.

 

If it does, you just might be a "redneck"....lol! Or, a candidate for the Darwin awards. Seriously....

[joelrod47 373]

Hey,..........that's not "redneck"..........

That's just half-assed, straight out plain and simple............

[Mossberg Man 1]

O.K. let's put the JB Weld to rest for now I have a bigger issue on hand and I figured this would be the place to get an answer seeings how my post has drawn so much attention. I have found a friend that has a full set of tats and dies and all the stuff for threading. I am wondering if there is a particular size or something that would be used to thread my barrel? Or I guess how to know if the set he has will contain the right one? I know that I want left handed threads that are 14x1 but how does that relate to which die I need to use? Or if there is a special die and tat that are used just for barrels? This is something I am taking very seriously so please help, and just so everyone knows I have the whole bullet guide kit on order I originally posted this thread to see if anyone has had any success with this option so who knows what I will do as far as the bullet guide goes, the immediate issue now is trying to determine if my friend has the right gear to thread my barrel, please help this is one I know I am not willing to shortcut at all!!

[my762buzz 141]

O.K. let's put the JB Weld to rest for now I have a bigger issue on hand and I figured this would be the place to get an answer seeings how my post has drawn so much attention. I have found a friend that has a full set of tats and dies and all the stuff for threading. I am wondering if there is a particular size or something that would be used to thread my barrel? Or I guess how to know if the set he has will contain the right one? I know that I want left handed threads that are 14x1 but how does that relate to which die I need to use? Or if there is a special die and tat that are used just for barrels? This is something I am taking very seriously so please help, and just so everyone knows I have the whole bullet guide kit on order I originally posted this thread to see if anyone has had any success with this option so who knows what I will do as far as the bullet guide goes, the immediate issue now is trying to determine if my friend has the right gear to thread my barrel, please help this is one I know I am not willing to shortcut at all!!

 

 

 

But why thread the muzzle when you can JB weld a brake on?

[Stansplace 414]

The die you need is a M14X1.0mm LH

[Mullet Man 2,114]

TaP

 

Taps are for internal threads, dies are for external threads.

 

I think you also need a bore alignment tool to cut threads onto the muzzle as well as a crowning tool to reshape the muzzle tip/bore end.