Hypothetical CCW situation

[David Mark 2,452]

You are in a convenience store or even a bank. Suddenly, an armed man comes in brandishing his weapon and demands money from the clerk or teller.

You are not directly threatened by said gunman but you are in a position to draw your weapon and send this asshole to hell.

 

Do you take action to stop the robbery or do you simply stay low and observe?

 

Do you hope the perpetrator simply takes the money and runs or do you intervene?

 

I have seen many surveillance videos of robberies with customers in the background and wonder what I would or should do confronted with this situation.

[chevyman097 2,579]

Well, IF, you are armed. Said thief has gun and possibly will use it to take life or lives...I would like to say Id act in the best interest of the people in harms way. But you never know till that day comes.

 

 

....send the dirt bag to hell

[308SAIGA 55]

Not in Florida and I believe that not in PA either...

 

Take him out, call the police, explain to dispatcher that you have a CCW and say "I WAS IN FEAR FOR MY LIFE AND FOR THE LIVES OF THE PEOPLE AROUND ME"..

 

If the perp is dead then holster your weapon (if not put another in his head) and when the police show up, say the exact same thing... I Feared for my life!!!!

[Juggernaut 11,054]

Smoke 'em if ya got 'em......

[BuffetDestroyer 969]

Since we have heard the trigger happy perspective, the other side is that you will have costly legal ramifications regardless of whether you were justified.

 

You will be handcuffed and taken in for questioning when the police arrive.

 

You are open to civil suits from the individual and his/her family.

 

 

I would likely not intervene until I heard shots fired or some other violence besides 'assault with a deadly weapon' had taken place - i.e. beating the clerk up, cutting them, bludgeoning them etc. If 7-11 or the bank gives the person a few hundred bucks and everyone survives, then I am fine with that outcome. Then I don't have to live with the potential scenario that I killed a guy with a spray painted squirt gun or airsoft gun who was desperate to feed his family or pay for his kid's medical bills.

 

If someone assaults me or my family with a weapon, then I am likely to fire and have no problems dealing with any of the above outcomes. If they just want my wallet, I would throw it away from me to see whether they go for the wallet or me. If it is me, I better be quick on the draw.

[Heath_h49008 442]

Kill him... double tap, and one to the head as fast as you can. Watch out for bystanders of course!

 

When the target is down, secure his weapon, as well as your own on the ground, unloaded. YOU need to dial 911 and give the corpse first aid.

 

Why? Because you feared for your life, you shot to "Stop". When the threat was removed, you offered aid as best you could.

 

Sound weird? Yep. Can it cover your ass? Yep.

[Juggernaut 11,054]

http://www.warriortalknews.com/2010/07/afteraction-discourse-what-to-say-to-the-cops.html

[308SAIGA 55]

Since we have heard the trigger happy perspective, the other side is that you will have costly legal ramifications regardless of whether you were justified.

 

You will be handcuffed and taken in for questioning when the police arrive.

 

You are open to civil suits from the individual and his/her family.

 

 

I would likely not intervene until I heard shots fired or some other violence besides 'assault with a deadly weapon' had taken place - i.e. beating the clerk up, cutting them, bludgeoning them etc. If 7-11 or the bank gives the person a few hundred bucks and everyone survives, then I am fine with that outcome. Then I don't have to live with the potential scenario that I killed a guy with a spray painted squirt gun or airsoft gun who was desperate to feed his family or pay for his kid's medical bills.

 

If someone assaults me or my family with a weapon, then I am likely to fire and have no problems dealing with any of the above outcomes. If they just want my wallet, I would throw it away from me to see whether they go for the wallet or me. If it is me, I better be quick on the draw.

 

 

I would agree with you "IF" Florida had not passed the "NO RETREAT LAW", before this if someone where to pull a knife or threaten you with bodily harm you had to run away....

 

http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2005/04/jeb_bush_signs.php

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

One thing to keep in mind is the trend of armed bank robberies are dropping dramatically. One thing I can tell you from working in the industry is very low numbers of people are walking into the bank guns drawn demanding hands on heads like in the movies. Most bank robberies only make the local news because they're usually very boring!

 

For example this year there's been 112 bank robberies in NYC, 102 of them had no weapon at all. There's no shortage of guns on the street in NYC, it's just that with far less charges to face when no weapon is involved, and most banks (and many chain stores too) have a zero resistance policy, all it takes to rob a bank is literally a post it note or telling the cashier to hand over X amount. A bank in my town was robbed last year and the teller next to the one that was robbed did not even know a robbery had occured until the guy was walking out the door and she hit the silent alarm. (as policy, large banks offer zero resistance, and allow the robber to exit the building before triggering alarms/calling police)

 

So while you're likely to find yourself in a bank and some dude comes in like he's John Dillinger, it's more probable that you won't even know the place was robbed that day, crazy as it sounds.

 

As for me? If I were CCWing, it'd be to protect myself/others and I'm not about to shoot some clown with a pen and post it note. Now, if he's waving a gun around at people, that's a different story. But otherwise, I have no desire to be a hero. Also, depending on your state you may not legally be able to do anything in the situation. And of course it's easy to beat chests on the internet, who knows how it goes down in real life

 

Besides, the Fed will just print more money anyway

Edited July 29, 2010 by Classy Kalashnikov

[6500rpm 670]

Be sure you can pull off the shot before you pull out your weapon. It's one thing to drop him with one shot, quite another if the bad guy is holding his gun on someone and you hit him some place where you have to wait for him to bleed out, or completely miss due to your body position or lack of control under duress. There's no room for self doubt.

[Paulyski 2,227]

You can carry in banks here too.

I can't think of a better place to carry.

 

 

Now Dave, if by "brandishing" you mean he's mexi-carying in his waist band & just flashes it to show he's serious, I wouldn't do shit.

Banks are trained to cooperate & maybe the guy really needs the money.

 

Now if he seems unstable & he's waving it around, screaming & threatening everyone....

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B1f6MHWzbE

[Heath_h49008 442]

Another question... if you do nothing, what happens?

 

If you want to play the wait and see game with an armed man already committing a crime, and hope he doesn't start eliminating witnesses or some other flake action once he has the money, be my guest. While the guy is busy with the clerk/teller I'll be drawing my weapon and planning my shot and my cover.

 

If you don't, and he turns to get your wallet as well, are you going to be able to draw and fire once he has his barrel on you? Will you give him your weapon as well as your wallet when he has you looking down his muzzle?

[DogMan 2,343]

I think that you have to remember that you can either make the situation a whole lot better or a whole lot worse as soon as you draw your weapon. To some people on the scene you may become just another man with a gun rather than a good samaritan. Leave the John Wayne stuff at home and think for a second before you jump in. If it's about money, he gets to take the money and leave as far as I'm concerned. If it's about lives then I jump in and smoke him at the first opportunity.

[Paulyski 2,227]

Another question... if you do nothing, what happens?

 

If you want to play the wait and see game with an armed man already committing a crime, and hope he doesn't start eliminating witnesses or some other flake action once he has the money, be my guest. While the guy is busy with the clerk/teller I'll be drawing my weapon and planning my shot and my cover.

 

If you don't, and he turns to get your wallet as well, are you going to be able to draw and fire once he has his barrel on you? Will you give him your weapon as well as your wallet when he has you looking down his muzzle?

Most people who commit robberies don't shoot much. They see a gun as a tool of crime & don't have them when not planing criminal activity.

 

I on the other hand am a quick draw & can make headshots from the length of one side to the other of any bank or convenience store I've seen.

 

If I'm ever staring down the barrel of a robber's gun, I'll play pussy, beg "please! Don't shoot! Don't shoot!" While tossing him my wallet. Then, while he's distracted, comes the left hand with the sweep, then you eliminate the threat.

But I'm not going to take a guys opportunity for salvation just because he's down on his luck & desperate.

Like I said, he flashes it... Cool. Take the banks cash & run.

But if he draws it & draws down...

Night-night, sleep tight.

[Juggernaut 11,054]

It has been said that in a crisis situation.. that you DO NOT rise to the occasion, but default to the level of your training....

 

I have a gas airsoft G19 that I practice with EVERY day.... (operates the same as the real life counterpart)..

 

I hope to never be in that situation.. but if I am.. I will be ready.....

 

The more you train, the less likelihood of not knowing what to do or fumbling in a crisis...

Edited July 29, 2010 by Juggernaut

[thehopping1 105]

I agree with most of what was said here. If you start shooting with out being able to prove you where feering for your life, than the bad guy's fammily will come after you and you might go to prison. If you miss and hit an inocent, you will go to prison. In some states if you have an opertunity to run away and choose to stay and shoot some one, you still might be charged. I have little training in high stress situations trying to shoot and it is a lot more dificult than I expected, and I wasn't faced with an armed gunman. Just stuff to think about before pretending your Dirty Hairy and go shooting up criminals.

[Paulyski 2,227]

It has been said that in a crisis situation.. that you DO NOT rise to the occasion, but default to the level of your training....

 

I have a gas airsoft G19 that I practice with EVERY day.... (operates the same as the real life counterpart)..

So what do you do?

 

Every time the wife & kids surprise you, flip around & plug'em with an airsoft?

[Juggernaut 11,054]

It has been said that in a crisis situation.. that you DO NOT rise to the occasion, but default to the level of your training....

 

I have a gas airsoft G19 that I practice with EVERY day.... (operates the same as the real life counterpart)..

So what do you do?

 

Every time the wife & kids surprise you, flip around & plug'em with an airsoft?

 

 

would you think we were crazy if I told you we even do scenario drills regularly???

 

It's like an old Peter Sellers movie around here.....(Edit: ain't bad for the love life, either....)

[Vultite 57]

 

Not in Florida and I believe that not in PA either...

 

Take him out, call the police, explain to dispatcher that you have a CCW and say "I WAS IN FEAR FOR MY LIFE AND FOR THE LIVES OF THE PEOPLE AROUND ME"..

 

If the perp is dead then holster your weapon (if not put another in his head) and when the police show up, say the exact same thing... I Feared for my life!!!!

I would blow this asshole away. My point of view, I'm now part of a dangerous situation requiring me to use deadly force because deadly force has been presented near yourself in an illegal fashion and you should be in fear of your life.

 

I stand corrected I guess,I couldn't find any actual wording on no concealed weapons in banks..weird, my CCW instructor said no banks, but w/e, i'm all about it now

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

I've spent more than a few $$$ on various in-depth Self Defense courses and retaining the counsel/services of my lawyer.

 

In the given scenario, it taking place here in Alabama, if I know I can engage the POS without endangering others, his being a threat is going to come to a abrupt ending.

[Bayoupiper 738]

The trouble with threads like this one is that IF this situation should occur, and one of our fellow forumites is the CCW and does take action, this thread would be brought up in court.

[Lone Star Arms 2,047]

The trouble with threads like this one is that IF this situation should occur, and one of our fellow forumites is the CCW and does take action, this thread would be brought up in court.

 

What thread?!

[308SAIGA 55]

Straight from the horses mouth: Like I said it is NOT illegal to carry in a bank in the State of Florida.....

 

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/self_defense.html

 

Q. When can I use my handgun to protect myself?

 

A. Florida law justifies use of deadly force when you are:

 

* Trying to protect yourself or another person from death or serious bodily harm;

* Trying to prevent a forcible felony, such as rape, robbery, burglary or kidnapping.

 

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/possession.html

 

Possession Restrictions

 

The following is a list of places where you are restricted from carrying a weapon or firearm even if you have a license. Please note that this is a simplified list. The places marked by an asterisk (*) may have exceptions or additional restrictions. See Section 790.06 (12), Florida Statutes for a complete listing.

 

o any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05

o any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station

o any detention facility, prison, or jail; any courthouse

o any courtroom*

o any polling place

o any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district

o any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof

o any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms

o any school administration building

o any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption*

o any elementary or secondary school facility

o any area technical center

o any college or university facility*

o inside the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport*

o any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law

 

 

Shoot him/her dead.....

[DogMan 2,343]

Straight from the horses mouth: Like I said it is NOT illegal to carry in a bank in the State of Florida.....

 

http://licgweb.doacs...lf_defense.html

 

Q. When can I use my handgun to protect myself?

 

A. Florida law justifies use of deadly force when you are:

 

* Trying to protect yourself or another person from death or serious bodily harm;

* Trying to prevent a forcible felony, such as rape, robbery, burglary or kidnapping.

 

http://licgweb.doacs...possession.html

 

Possession Restrictions

 

The following is a list of places where you are restricted from carrying a weapon or firearm even if you have a license. Please note that this is a simplified list. The places marked by an asterisk (*) may have exceptions or additional restrictions. See Section 790.06 (12), Florida Statutes for a complete listing.

 

o any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05

o any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station

o any detention facility, prison, or jail; any courthouse

o any courtroom*

o any polling place

o any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district

o any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof

o any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms

o any school administration building

o any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption*

o any elementary or secondary school facility

o any area technical center

o any college or university facility*

o inside the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport*

o any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law

 

 

Shoot him/her dead.....

 

Part of the confusion about banks is that some LEOs believe it is illegal in states where it is legal. Either that or they are just telling people what they think they will believe. The time before last when I renewed my permit the last thing the uniformed sherrif's office employee said was..."Just don't carry it in a school or a bank". I said, "but its not illegal to carry it in a bank". There was a moment of silence and then she told me she didn't think it was a good idea anyway. I wonder how many people she told that to who now think it is illegal to carry in a bank in Washington state. Probably quite a few.

[308SAIGA 55]

 

Part of the confusion about banks is that some LEOs believe it is illegal in states where it is legal. Either that or they are just telling people what they think they will believe. The time before last when I renewed my permit the last thing the uniformed sherrif's office employee said was..."Just don't carry it in a school or a bank". I said, "but its not illegal to carry it in a bank". There was a moment of silence and then she told me she didn't think it was a good idea anyway. I wonder how many people she told that to who now think it is illegal to carry in a bank in Washington state. Probably quite a few.

 

You would have to check out the website of the entity that issued the license, our entity here in Florida, for some reason, is the department of agriculture and that is where I got this info....

 

Police officers do not know the law, if they did we would not need attorneys & judges, never ever take a police officers word at anything about the law..... A small tip, if anyone gets in trouble and you have to have a trial ask for a non-jury trial, with our luck we would get a bunch of old people that do not understand that they have to make a ruling based on the evidence.... Old people have a tendency to believe a police officer....

 

Judges, on the other hand, rule based on the evidence and law..... Just my 2 cents.....

[Paulyski 2,227]

This tangent is not directed toward anyone in perticular, just those who choose take ownership of it.

 

Listen guys...

 

Step out of the internet fantasy world & quit obsessing on rescue fantasies.

 

If the dude just flashes the gun as a threat, he's likely dong it simply to reach an objective. He doesn't want a murder rap on him. Armed robbery is investigated with a much lower priority than first degree murder & the latter's prison sentence will be considerably longer, & possibly end in his death.

 

If he's going all psycho take care of the situation, but ditch your hollywood delusions.

 

If you shoot the guy directly through the heart, the perfect kill shot... He has 8 seconds beofre his body cannot act any longer.

How long does it take you to unload a large capacity mag? I can unload my G-17 much quicker than that.

 

So do you really want to take a situation where some desperate dude is taking drastic measures to keep his life afloat & escalate it into him going all Mr. Blonde on everyone & killing a bunch of people when otherwise he would have been on his way & the cops could actually do what they're paid for rather than hunting & ticketing you for minor traffic violations & seeing what else they can find?

 

What if, after reading this thread, you're all amped up with your rescue fantasies & you go to the bank when I'm having a bad day & I look pissed. I go to cash a check & for some reason my shirt hangs up on my gun?

You are all pumped, wanting to be some fucking hero & from a distance, see a sinister looking guy with a gun hand a teller a note.

You gonna start a shootout with me? Good fucking luck & bring a lunch!

 

Unfortunately, & I speak from experience... During stand offs, the two participants usually only see one & other. In an intense situation, in your heightened state of emotion & your survival instincts kicking in, you focus on the threat & you DO NOT see the potential casualties in the background.

 

Don't be a fucking Rambo & get people hurt.

If the situation escalates to the point where the guy is obviously about to become an active shooter, intervene. But damn it, don't cause unneeded suffering simply to fulfill you narcassistic needs to feel like a hero.

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

I'd stand back and let the guy collect the cash... then follow him outside and mug him.

[Paulyski 2,227]

I'd stand back and let the guy collect the cash... then follow him outside and mug him.

+100...

 

Now that's what I'm talking about!

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

Don't be a fucking Rambo & get people hurt.

If the situation escalates to the point where the guy is obviously about to become an active shooter, intervene. But damn it, don't cause unneeded suffering simply to fulfill you narcassistic needs to feel like a hero.

 

I am always in condition red everywhere I go because I am a tactical sheepdog who is prepared for a WROL situation. POU.

[Juggernaut 11,054]

I fuigure I have the right to carry a weapon, that SHOULD include the RESPONSIBILITY and ABILITY to USE it for what it is MEANT for....

I do not ware my G19 because it looks "snappy" with my trousers.... if you CCW I don't think you do either....

but is any person FUCKTARDED enough to think that equates to DESIRING violence???

I hope and pray every day that I will never have to use violence against anyone...

Do I think I'm a high speed badass?? no.. Hell, I print shirts for a living... (Well, I guess I'm an Operator after all...a PRESS operator.)

 

BUT, if I ever AM confronted with "CRAZY" I hope I have trained enough to be "steady" and not take YOU out with the trash..... ~Nuff said

 

Seems to be an attitude that if you train and take responsibility, responsibly... that you are some kinda nut job "lookin' for it".... nothing could be further from the truth...

 

IMO, you carry it, you better fucking know how to use it.... under stress even.....

 

You can be mad all you want!