What will we have to do...

[Paulyski 2,227]

A great man once said, "If it puts a smile on my face for more than 15 seconds, chances are it's gonna be illegal."

 

So, what hoops will current S-12 owners have to jump through if the gubmint ever decides the S-12 is too much fun & classifies it as a DD, like the striker-12? (which is weak in comparison)

 

Do they grandfather current owners in?

[psl sniper 963]

ive often wondered the same thing. i hope that theyd be grandfathered in.

[Lone Star Arms 2,047]

I think it is hard to make a case for the S12 being a DD when Benelli, Remington, and Mossberg all have autoloaders approaching the same capacity (shot next to one with 10+1 capacity today), and which are very, very fast indeed.

 

I have a good friend who owns a grandfathered Stryker. All of the above mentioned shotguns will shoot circles around it. I just happen to prefer the S12;)

[Juggernaut 11,054]

[Chowderhead72 13]

 

I don't remember this topic coming up since I have been here. Maybe someone could update me with any factual links.

[Juggernaut 11,054]

2007-2008..... I'll dig some up here again over the weekend..

 

HUGE deal for a while after Mike D announced he was gonna build 'em

 

if you find 'em before I get around to it.. feel free to post links..

 

Not that I really wanna highlight the issue again...

[rjrivero 50]

I'll buy an X-Rail or two and toss them on my benellis and a big bucket of speed sticks.

Edited September 25, 2010 by rjrivero

[Paulyski 2,227]

2007-2008..... I'll dig some up here again over the weekend..

 

HUGE deal for a while after Mike D announced he was gonna build 'em

 

if you find 'em before I get around to it.. feel free to post links..

 

Not that I really wanna highlight the issue again...

Yeah, sorry bro...

A little before my time.

 

 

ETA;

 

Googled it!

 

I think this may be our most recent thread on the topic.

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=37667

 

Reason I asked, is what if someone had to hawk one for rent & the law changed, ect... ect...

Edited September 25, 2010 by Paulyski

[Juggernaut 11,054]

no worries, same patterns

[SaigaKen 338]

no worries, same patterns

 

 

If it were to become a DD.....what accessories should I purchase for my S12 before it happens?

[Chowderhead72 13]

Drums and mags and make sure it is 922r compliant. At this point it would be a waste to classify it due to the quantity in circulation. I don't know the numbers but I am positive there are exponentally more S12s out there than the spas12.

[Stansplace 414]

I don't believe this would happen, but I am interested on what the forum thinks. If it was discussed a couple of years ago, it was before a lot of members were here.

 

I'm thinking fresh blood, new ideas and thoughts here. Besides it is interesting to know what could possibly happen here. I didn't even know about the DD shotgun mentioned above before this thread.

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

Waffenschmeid and Juggernaut hit the nail on the head.

 

Some of these new shotguns are really fucking nice, too. Remington's versa Max is semi auto with teflon/nickel finish interior and exterior, with a self regulating and self cleaning gas system that takes anything from 2 3/4" to 3 1/2" all on the same setting. Also has really nice perks like a huge trigger guard for gloved shooting, etc. I'd think a weapon like that is far more effective of a shotgun than some clunky SPAS or Striker.

Edited September 25, 2010 by Classy Kalashnikov

[Paulyski 2,227]

I know I'm not alone when I say, every time I do a bunch of drum & mag dumps, I find myself thinking... "This is just too fucking cool... "They" are gonna outlaw it sooner or later"

 

I mean, when the guys with the FAs down the way are in awe at the power of the platform... Well, you know.

 

Someone with a bullet-proof vest could never even stand up to a drummed S-12...

I shred shit so much, I KNOW I'd hit any chink in the body armor if I so desired, & on target recovery is quicker than a pistol.

[G O B 3,516]

Be careful WHAT you ask for....(and just WHO may be lurking here).

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

Someone with a bullet-proof vest could never even stand up to a drummed S-12...

 

Sure they could. At 150 yards away, taking their sweet old time to line up a perfect shot at the S-12 guy with their rifle

 

Shotguns are potent weapons, especially for home/self defense and close range combat. But they have plenty of shortcomings. There's a reason no army in the world issues a shotgun as it's standard service arm.

Edited September 25, 2010 by Classy Kalashnikov

[Stansplace 414]

I know I'm not alone when I say, every time I do a bunch of drum & mag dumps, I find myself thinking... "This is just too fucking cool... "They" are gonna outlaw it sooner or later"

 

I mean, when the guys with the FAs down the way are in awe at the power of the platform... Well, you know.

 

Someone with a bullet-proof vest could never even stand up to a drummed S-12...

I shred shit so much, I KNOW I'd hit any chink in the body armor if I so desired, & on target recovery is quicker than a pistol.

 

 

Be careful WHAT you ask for....(and just WHO may be lurking here).

 

Changed my mind........

Edited September 30, 2010 by Stansplace

[Paulyski 2,227]

Someone with a bullet-proof vest could never even stand up to a drummed S-12...

 

Sure they could. At 150 yards away, taking their sweet old time to line up a perfect shot at the S-12 guy with their rifle

 

Shotguns are potent weapons, especially for home/self defense and close range combat. But they have plenty of shortcomings. There's a reason no army in the world issues a shotgun as it's standard service arm.

Yeah, but if it's not a time of war & you're shooting at someone 150 yards away, You have many more things to worry about.

Kinda hard to argue self defense at those ranges.

You'd need a REALLY good lawyer & dirt on the judge to beat that one as a civi.

 

Also, GOB, with more & more proliferation of body armor, for affordable prices, more home invaders are using it.

If the cops in Hollywood had drummed S-12s, the guys with the AKs woulda been toast really quick at the ranges they were shooting is what I was thinking about as I posted the above.

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

Someone with a bullet-proof vest could never even stand up to a drummed S-12...

 

Sure they could. At 150 yards away, taking their sweet old time to line up a perfect shot at the S-12 guy with their rifle

 

Shotguns are potent weapons, especially for home/self defense and close range combat. But they have plenty of shortcomings. There's a reason no army in the world issues a shotgun as it's standard service arm.

Yeah, but if it's not a time of war & you're shooting at someone 150 yards away, You have many more things to worry about.

Kinda hard to argue self defense at those ranges.

You'd need a REALLY good lawyer & dirt on the judge to beat that one as a civi.

 

 

Well, yeah, lol

[The_Caged_Bird 474]

Someone with a bullet-proof vest could never even stand up to a drummed S-12...

 

Sure they could. At 150 yards away, taking their sweet old time to line up a perfect shot at the S-12 guy with their rifle

 

Shotguns are potent weapons, especially for home/self defense and close range combat. But they have plenty of shortcomings. There's a reason no army in the world issues a shotgun as it's standard service arm.

Yeah, but if it's not a time of war & you're shooting at someone 150 yards away, You have many more things to worry about.

Kinda hard to argue self defense at those ranges.

You'd need a REALLY good lawyer & dirt on the judge to beat that one as a civi.

 

Also, GOB, with more & more proliferation of body armor, for affordable prices, more home invaders are using it.

If the cops in Hollywood had drummed S-12s, the guys with the AKs woulda been toast really quick at the ranges they were shooting is what I was thinking about as I posted the above.

 

Very true, as far as anything beyond 25 yards... well, that's what the AR is for...

 

[tonyhunt 15]

I know I'm not alone when I say, every time I do a bunch of drum & mag dumps, I find myself thinking... "This is just too fucking cool... "They" are gonna outlaw it sooner or later"

 

I mean, when the guys with the FAs down the way are in awe at the power of the platform... Well, you know.

 

Someone with a bullet-proof vest could never even stand up to a drummed S-12...

I shred shit so much, I KNOW I'd hit any chink in the body armor if I so desired, & on target recovery is quicker than a pistol.

 

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM223-5.html

 

Create your own "chinks" as you go!

[Frosty 9]

It will not happen.

 

As soon as the Alphabet Boys allowed importation of them that was it.

 

Anything back then that would have raised an eyebrow would have kept them from being allowed in. It is as simple as that.

 

 

Besides all that the Saiga shotguns in their "as shipped / as imported" configuration are harmless looking. Its when the NEW OWNER changes its physical looks that it begins to "just look evil".

 

Magazine capacity it just comes with a 5 round hunting magazine. Its also semi automatic. Adding something bigger is up to you.

 

Most of the DD shotguns in the registry where manufactured FROM THE START WITH high magazine capacity.

 

 

 

 

Frosty

[The_Caged_Bird 474]

Wouldn't you know it, knowing my luck, I'd probably lose mine in a tragic boating accident right before they were declared DD's...

[raymundo 4]

I hope that doesn't happen. I just sent mine off to Mike for some work and haven't got to enjoy it yet.

[caal 9]

wow that x-rail is wild .Some versions hold 26 rounds pretty neat . But seems to be forward heavy and slow to reload .

[Eric Pate 478]

Believe it or not, at one point many on this forum strongly discouraged even discussing the possibility of a Saiga 12 drum out of fear of them becoming DD'd. Mike D did indeed put up with alot of crap when he first announced his intentions.

[nalioth 405]

Drums and mags and make sure it is 922r compliant. At this point it would be a waste to classify it due to the quantity in circulation. I don't know the numbers but I am positive there are exponentally more S12s out there than the spas12.

Destructive Devices are not subject to 922r.

[Lone Star Arms 2,047]

I hope that doesn't happen. I just sent mine off to Mike for some work and haven't got to enjoy it yet.

 

Runs like a scalded ape too! Test fired it mirror polished and bone dry. Cycles like a dream

[Paulyski 2,227]

2007-2008..... I'll dig some up here again over the weekend..

 

HUGE deal for a while after Mike D announced he was gonna build 'em

 

if you find 'em before I get around to it.. feel free to post links..

 

Not that I really wanna highlight the issue again...

I now understand where this sentiment came from...

 

 

 

But, since, the original question is yet to be answered by all the knowledgeable members, I'm reading through a bunch of really old threads, trying to find reference to previous percedures, & maybe even some statutes to research... & well, holy shit!

 

Juggs mentioned that Mike got a lot of shit at first....

He actually was BANNED from this forum for making the drum...

A little history for us newer members;

 

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241279

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=15409&hl=

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=15430&hl=

 

Strange how some members wish for some mythical "good-ol-days" when there wasn't conflict on the forum.

I applaud Mike for "sticking to his guns". It proves that having a set of balls pays off BIG sometimes.

 

We live free & prosper in this country because of our understanding of the laws of the land, & the loopholes there in. When one doesn't have the fortitude to disregard laws that don't exist, they're a slave to an imaginary master.

If we take our rights, we keep our rights & make our rights... However if we cower, hoping to blend into the woodwork, we will still be noticed & they'll strip us of our rights as we cower in silence.

 

Still reading to see if we would have to jump through all the hoops, or whether we'd be grandfathered though. Seems like another state-by-state thing ultimately So, it's about time to vote, know where the candidates stand & vote accordingly.

 

Looks like the word "drum" has been a fighting word here from its first utterance.

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=2289&view=findpost&p=18481

I started at this post because this member's words are very inspiring.

Edited September 26, 2010 by Paulyski

[BrutalGardener 205]

2007-2008..... I'll dig some up here again over the weekend..

 

HUGE deal for a while after Mike D announced he was gonna build 'em

 

if you find 'em before I get around to it.. feel free to post links..

 

Not that I really wanna highlight the issue again...

I now understand where this sentiment came from...

 

 

 

But, since, the original question is yet to be answered by all the knowledgeable members, I'm reading through a bunch of really old threads, trying to find reference to previous percedures, & maybe even some statutes to research... & well, holy shit!

 

Juggs mentioned that Mike got a lot of shit at first....

He actually was BANNED from this forum for making the drum...

A little history for us newer members;

 

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241279

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=15409&hl=

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=15430&hl=

 

Strange how some members wish for some mythical "good-ol-days" when there wasn't conflict on the forum.

I applaud Mike for "sticking to his guns". It proves that having a set of balls pays off BIG sometimes.

 

We live free & prosper in this country because of our understanding of the laws of the land, & the loopholes there in. When one doesn't have the fortitude to disregard laws that don't exist, they're a slave to an imaginary master.

If we take our rights, we keep our rights & make our rights... However if we cower, hoping to blend into the woodwork, we will still be noticed & they'll strip us of our rights as we cower in silence.

 

Still reading to see if we would have to jump through all the hoops, or whether we'd be grandfathered though. Seems like another state-by-state thing ultimately So, it's about time to vote, know where the candidates stand & vote accordingly.

 

Looks like the word "drum" has been a fighting word here from its first utterance.

 

Wow! Those threads sure got intense! Some of the comments towards Mike were downright threatening. It's pretty amazing to think that now, everyone here owns at least one of his drums and friggin' Promag mass-produces copies. I wonder what caused the forum establishment to change their minds on the drums and unban Mike? Did the BATF rule or speak out on this matter and make it OK? When did Alliance Armament come out with their drums? For some reason, I always thought that they were the first with this.