MikeD 541 Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 I didn't see anything posted on this but has anyone heard of imports being denied already? I have heard this from two different importer. One is very credible to me and I have no reason to not believe the other. Anybody heard any of this? Supposedly the only guns coming in are because the paperwork was approved before the study and that everyone that had submitted after the study has been denied on the 12. If this is true it appears we are already screwed... I have a couple emails out to see if others have had the same happen to them. The Russian's also started a bidding war from what I hear. That didn't sound good to me and was somewhat confirmed to me today when I was quoted a dealer price on some. I can't repeat the dealer price from the first time importer but it is VERY high. Has anybody been hearing any of this and if it's being discussed I couldn't find it. This is very unsettling. Eric Holder might be removed soon but I am not sure it will change anything. Not sure if I should buy a boat load at the new high ass dealer price or what. It would suck if they dried up and I didnt and it would suck if I stick myself with a few hundred guns that I'll lose well over a hundred on each. What really sucks the worst though is that we even have to worry about such thing here in America! What a crying ass shame! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yakdung 2,926 Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 Mike, I have not heard anything yet but I will keep my ear to the rail. Tony should know something right? Yakdung Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 Stick to what you do best and let the importers sort it out. Wish I could be more help, but that's all I have to offer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 Interesting. I will be preying to the Saiga God. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
beefcakeb99 572 Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 I have also heard rumor that the Form 6 has been denied or put on hold until after the study, which IMO is a de facto import ban. It is indeed a shame. If I had the kind of resources as you Mike D. I would buy at least a dozen at whatever price they did come in for the shitstorm no matter what. But that is just me and my paranoid nature Quote Link to post Share on other sites
physicsnerd 139 Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 If this is true does such a denial also affect certain Benellis, etc? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted April 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 I have also heard rumor that the Form 6 has been denied or put on hold until after the study, which IMO is a de facto import ban. It is indeed a shame. If I had the kind of resources as you Mike D. I would buy at least a dozen at whatever price they did come in for the shitstorm no matter what. But that is just me and my paranoid nature If they do stop them everything about it is dirty no matter what. I have some stashed back for our conversion line and just listed some for sale today to clear up some capital but am wondering if that was a mistake. I'm telling you, the dealer price I head today wasn't pretty at all. We should all write well constructed letter and send it to EVERY congressman there is. Maybe even try to get Fox to pick the story up as part of their inflated gunrunning investigation. To me it sound like part of the same damn story anyways. We should also comment on the ATF study and tell them not to let certain people pull their strings! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted April 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 If this is true does such a denial also affect certain Benellis, etc? The thing is the saiga meets the definition of sporting. It is no different than the rifles. Just as many aftermarket, surplus, and high cap mags are available for them as well. I fear if they stop the 12 because of availability that the rifle might not be far behind. A saiga rifle is about the only way to get a new quality barrel since the barrel ban a few years back. If we keep letting them pick away at us we will soon have nothing left. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
physicsnerd 139 Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 If this is true does such a denial also affect certain Benellis, etc? The thing is the saiga meets the definition of sporting. It is no different than the rifles. Just as many aftermarket, surplus, and high cap mags are available for them as well. I fear if they stop the 12 because of availability that the rifle might not be far behind. A saiga rifle is about the only way to get a new quality barrel since the barrel ban a few years back. If we keep letting them pick away at us we will soon have nothing left. Agree 1000%. In the long disappeared ATF thread in this subforum I said the same thing as any argument made against the S12 could be made against the rifles as well as the WASRs and Legion rifles brought in by Arsenal. I wrote a 2 page response a month or more ago and sent it to the ATF and contacted my congressman and senators. No response. This coupled with Gunrunner really paints the ATF if a negative (and well deserved) light. I remain hopeful that this overstep may finally be met with legal challenges. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stansplace 414 Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 I for one am waiting to see what type of false flag event happens on April 19th so they can take 'em all. But I have been accused of being overly paranoid... from time to time.... Reference my sig. line........ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted April 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 If this is true does such a denial also affect certain Benellis, etc? The thing is the saiga meets the definition of sporting. It is no different than the rifles. Just as many aftermarket, surplus, and high cap mags are available for them as well. I fear if they stop the 12 because of availability that the rifle might not be far behind. A saiga rifle is about the only way to get a new quality barrel since the barrel ban a few years back. If we keep letting them pick away at us we will soon have nothing left. Agree 1000%. In the long disappeared ATF thread in this subforum I said the same thing as any argument made against the S12 could be made against the rifles as well as the WASRs and Legion rifles brought in by Arsenal. I wrote a 2 page response a month or more ago and sent it to the ATF and contacted my congressman and senators. No response. This coupled with Gunrunner really paints the ATF if a negative (and well deserved) light. I remain hopeful that this overstep may finally be met with legal challenges. Really I hate to put the blame on the ATF. It is their puppetmasters that do this. From what I've seen from speaking to many agents on a personal level is that most are progun, proAmerica and simply don't agree with a lot of the same things we don't agree with. The ATF as a whole takes the fall. Much in the same way Holder is about to take the fall for Obama. Only Holder is clearly on a whole right there with Obama. I feel blaming the ATF on a whole is blaming the wrong source. The ATFs thoughts on the saiga-12 was it was better to be coming here then sold out of country. But some new string pullers are having different ideas... We really shouldn't pull this thread in the political direction though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaPD 408 Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 (edited) Mike, The only denial that I have heard about to date is for the M1 Garands/M1 Carbines, but I would not be surprised if this went further and I have not tried to confirm it. When talking to some of our local ATF agents, whom are reliable sources for me anyways, they have only advised that the S12's will be worth a lot more in the future. They would not elaborate any further, so I don't know how to take it. Obviously not trying to stir the pot on this again, but I'm starting to experience a level of concern as well. Edited April 1, 2011 by GeorgiaPD Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KC913 324 Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 (edited) From what I was told, Izhmash raised the price $100.00 per unit on the Saiga 12 and the MSRP will be roughly $699.00 (if I remember correctly) when this new shipment makes it stateside in a couple of weeks. This new shipment is also supposed to contain all of the Saiga 12's that Izhmash had on hand at the time of the order, so it should be a hefty amount. At any rate, I'm glad I picked a couple of extras up (one was from Mike D) for ~$499.00 before the price went through the roof. We shall see what happens. And yes, I was also told that no further imports were being approved at the moment. Edited April 1, 2011 by KC913 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tim2shu 48 Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 What's next? You can shoot somebody with an american made reg. Stock gun just as easy as you can an import. If they get this shit passed next they will be knocking on your door! It should read, THE RIGHT TO KEEP AND BARE ARMS ONLY IF THE ATF APROVES IT! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulyski 2,227 Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 Wouldn't it be neat if Will could get the producers to put a plea to the public saying what's happening with the deterioration of our rights, primarily with the S-12 at the beginning of his show some time? I'd say the S-12 on an ATV with an MD-20 for hunting classifies it as sporting purposes... Ahh... in a perfect world.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted April 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 Mike, The only denial that I have heard about to date is for the M1 Garands/M1 Carbines, but I would not be surprised is this went further and I have not tried to confirm it. When talking to some of our local ATF agents, whom are reliable sources for me anyways, they have only advised that the S12's will be worth a lot more in the future. They would not elaborate any further, so I don't know how to take it. Obviously not trying to stir the pot on this again, but I'm starting to experience a level of concern as well. Can you being on a more personal level with ATF officials give your assessment of the general feels most are having on gun rights? On the concern yes... At first I wasn't too worried. Then I see the full page pic of our drum in the study and it brought a little more but still not overly. But I have been hearing more and more and it just isn't looking good at all. I think this issue needs brought to national attention and fast. The NRA need to stand up and speak louder as well. If we could get the media to look into the denied paperwork as an unofficial official ban that could be something. America as a whole doesn't like gun bans and if we let this possible go by quietly it might not even be known that it needs overturned! Who am I kidding, how can this not be political as bad as everyone is sick of hearing political stuff... We need to act. Write And send to everyone. Tell all the news anchors we want to see a story on this... Tell the NRA and newly elected official we can't hear them... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
glennhmd 23 Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 when there's smoke... there's fire. its not hard to believe S12 prices are going to go up there (US). as it is, they cost wayyyy too much here already (about $1,600 for stock S12 including license fees). consider you guys lucky. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted April 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 Wouldn't it be neat if Will could get the producers to put a plea to the public saying what's happening with the deterioration of our rights, primarily with the S-12 at the beginning of his show some time? I'd say the S-12 on an ATV with an MD-20 for hunting classifies it as sporting purposes... Ahh... in a perfect world.... Yes, I was thinking something similar. I was thinking more along the lines of season 2. The show is a hit and people are wanting to see Will now and not the new Discovery Channel show... He will have much more pull in making the show his own I thought. But right now would be great... Holding a Saiga-12 saying this is about to be banned... Don't you want to be able to buy one??? Discover might not want the approach though. They should though. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheDriver 23 Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 Wouldn't it be neat if Will could get the producers to put a plea to the public saying what's happening with the deterioration of our rights, primarily with the S-12 at the beginning of his show some time? I'd say the S-12 on an ATV with an MD-20 for hunting classifies it as sporting purposes... Ahh... in a perfect world.... Yeah, Will's show is probably the most exposure the S12 platform has seen in the US. I have to say these developments are not promising. I was going to sell an extra NIB S12 soon; might be better to hold onto it for a while..... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulyski 2,227 Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 Wouldn't it be neat if Will could get the producers to put a plea to the public saying what's happening with the deterioration of our rights, primarily with the S-12 at the beginning of his show some time? I'd say the S-12 on an ATV with an MD-20 for hunting classifies it as sporting purposes... Ahh... in a perfect world.... Yes, I was thinking something similar. I was thinking more along the lines of season 2. The show is a hit and people are wanting to see Will now and not the new Discovery Channel show... He will have much more pull in making the show his own I thought. But right now would be great... Holding a Saiga-12 saying this is about to be banned... Don't you want to be able to buy one??? Discover might not want the approach though. They should though. They lose the heart of their current biggest male targeted show if they don't. Seriously, the coolest builds center around the S-12. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaPD 408 Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 (edited) Can you being on a more personal level with ATF officials give your assessment of the general feels most are having on gun rights? Mike, In general, most of the agents that I deal with feel the same as any of us and wish that the current laws would be enforced instead of trying to make new ones every year. But, just like any other job, they sometimes have to do things whether they agree with them or not. They have families to feed too and the ones that I have contact with are genuinely good people. I just have to remind myself from time to time that they are not the string pullers, just the pawns. Ultimately, they are at the whim of the elected officials in DC. Edited April 1, 2011 by GeorgiaPD 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stansplace 414 Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 Can you being on a more personal level with ATF officials give your assessment of the general feels most are having on gun rights? Mike, In general, most of the agents that I deal with feel the same as any of us and wish that the current laws would be enforced instead of trying to make new ones every year. But, just like any other job, they sometimes have to do things whether they agree with them or not. They have families to feed too and the ones that I have contact with are genuinely good people. I just have to remind myself from time to time that they are not the string pullers, just the pawns. Ultimately, they are at the whim of the elected officials in DC. Unfortunately the officials are appointed rather than elected in too many situations like this. This seems to be happening more and more with the elected officials having plausible deniability. That IMHO is the crux of the problem with the ATF. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 There is a story on the study in this months NRA magazine "American Rifleman". Nothing new but it is on their radar. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AK_Fanatic_N_AZ 6 Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 Atlantic Firearms posted the following in another thread in this forum on March 20th... "...the whole Saiga 12 deal stinks but there are a few things at work here , the market was slow on the S12 for the last 8 months so the importer was not bringing many of them in and wholesalers were not sitting on huge inventory levels. Within 3 days of the ATF talking about the possible ban most of the US inventory at the wholesalers was gobbled up or had jumped $100 bucks per gun .The importer only got a few more into the country on a already pre approved Import Form 6 but with the demand most firms only got a handful .Since then the ATF has not approved more Form 6 imports until they complete their STUDY so their is no official ban in place but yet no other shipments are coming into the US. Their may still be 1 pre approved shipment that could possibly arrive but nobody knows for sure the Russians are aware of the demand and trying to raise prices on the incoming shipment . They just tried to jump the price on the Vepr rifles by $70 per unit & claimed it was because of the increased cost of fuel." 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Saiga_rom 91 Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 this is all incredibly alarming, but really, the ultimate fate lies in the result of the ATF study. is there any information about the direction that is going? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheDriver 23 Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 this is all incredibly alarming, but really, the ultimate fate lies in the result of the ATF study. is there any information about the direction that is going? Obama -> Holder -> Traver(?) Who knows, but I don't have a great feeling about it.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Saiga_rom 91 Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 this is ridiculous man, they better not ban military surplus Ak's too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bagelthief 1 Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 (edited) No offense...But where the hell have you guys been?!?! Iv been hearing about all imports being denied for at least a month. It was all over Calguns AND here that no more were being let in...There was just a thread like two weeks ago, with practically ALL the same information. Yet the majority of people all said we who thought a ban was going into effect were "chicken littles," that "this will all blow over after May 1st" and "after this panic buying is done, prices will go back down to 400 bucks a gun again!" blah blah blah... Whats changed fellas? Now who's the chicken little??? Edited April 1, 2011 by Bagelthief 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sickness 89 Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 (edited) this is all incredibly alarming, but really, the ultimate fate lies in the result of the ATF study. is there any information about the direction that is going? Bleh. It was incredibly alarming a few months ago when the study first came out. The whole "keep calm" and "don't pay inflated prices for S12's" thing got everyone to stick their head in the sand, is all. So now, here we are.. months later, and instead of having gotten the forum all worked up and spread the word and maybe got an organized petition or letter writing campaign going.. we are back at square one. Just with a thicker plot now, because even MD is considering paying those inflated prices. Funny how that sort of thing works out. Edit: Just remembered the date. Be pretty cool if this was an April Fools joke. Harsh, but funny. Harshest I ever pulled was swapping salt and sugar when I was a kid. It was priceless to see the look on my old man's face when he took a sip of coffee+salt. I thought I'd get an ass whoopin' but he took it in stride Edited April 1, 2011 by sickness 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Saiga_rom 91 Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 this is all incredibly alarming, but really, the ultimate fate lies in the result of the ATF study. is there any information about the direction that is going? Bleh. It was incredibly alarming a few months ago when the study first came out. The whole "keep calm" and "don't pay inflated prices for S12's" thing got everyone to stick their head in the sand, is all. So now, here we are.. months later, and instead of having gotten the forum all worked up and spread the word and maybe got an organized petition or letter writing campaign going.. we are back at square one. Just with a thicker plot now, because even MD is considering paying those inflated prices. Funny how that sort of thing works out. Edit: Just remembered the date. Be pretty cool if this was an April Fools joke. Harsh, but funny. Harshest I ever pulled was swapping salt and sugar when I was a kid. It was priceless to see the look on my old man's face when he took a sip of coffee+salt. I thought I'd get an ass whoopin' but he took it in stride yea, its interesting to say the least. i still cant believe the timing, cause i had no clue this ATF study was coming until a few days after my DROS background check had started for my saiga 12. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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