7.62x39 or .223

[rnemhrd 165]

Wondering which to get. Looking for the best overall rifle. Read all I could on it. What do you have and why. Thanks!

[Dad2142Dad 6,559]

I have two 7.62x39, have yet to try the .223. Maybe now that prices are falling I might try one. Reasons for the 7.62x39 are heavier bullet and cheaper ammo.

[bohound 281]

I chose the .223, based on the understanding that I was going to eventually install an MSA magazine adapter. I figured the most commonly available NATO round couldn't hurt.

 

The recoil is lighter on the .223, follow ups are quicker.

 

I also got the added benefit of a little more accuracy over the x39, as well as the same barrel, just bored for a smaller chambering- poor man's HBAR?

 

Had it threaded 1/2 by 28tpi- AR specs, so accesories will easily fit the muzzle.

 

I only really lose the stopping power and penetration of the x39, so I mostly have xm855 or ss109 as my combat load... The x39 isn't a true battle rifle round anyway, more like towards the top of the intermediate round spectrum available for this platform... The benefits for the .223 over the x39 won the battle for me!

 

That said, my brother has a Saiga x39 that I helped convert I can shoot whenever, similarly equipped to mine.

 

Thinking seriously about an S-308 to round out the family now. (In other words: TREAD LIGHTLY!!!! When members that have been here a while tell you that this Saiga thing is an addiction we are not joking!!! )

Edited October 12, 2011 by bohound

[mgconnor13 206]

7.62x39 is a little cheaper to shoot and it's big enough to take medium game. 223 will cause plenty of damage but won't punch through barriers like 7.62x39 will. both are good rounds, you just have to decide what you will be using the rifle for. A lot of states have rules about what you can hunt with .22 caliber bullets so that something to think about.

 

I have rifles in both calibers and i don't feel underpowered with either one, just depends on what you want to do

[timy 1,185]

7.62x39 is a little cheaper to shoot and it's big enough to take medium game. 223 will cause plenty of damage but won't punch through barriers like 7.62x39 will. both are good rounds, you just have to decide what you will be using the rifle for. A lot of states have rules about what you can hunt with .22 caliber bullets so that something to think about.

 

I have rifles in both calibers and i don't feel underpowered with either one, just depends on what you want to do

 

What he said. I have the 223 and 308 so don't feel the need for a 7.62x39.

 

Not to complicate matters but there is also the 5.45x39 to consider.

[going12220 125]

As stated by others 7.62 would be a better deer round while the .223 might carry out flat further for a little longer shot. Kind of figure if you’re more into game or target shooting, on an AK platform I’d go with the 7.62x39 mostly because without one of the more tricked out .223 guns it’s lost any accuracy advantage it might have had.

Edited October 12, 2011 by going12220

[ben4345 123]

Why not consider the 5.45x39?

[YARP 300]

Have you shot both?

Which platform do you like better, AR or AK?

What are your goals with this weapon, hunting, home defense, SHTF rifle or all of the above?

What are you willing to spend?

Are you recoil sensitive?

Do you live in a rural or urban area?

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

 

Time for the weekly caliber "debate" again, eh?

 

I recommend 7.62x39 and 7.62x51 Saiga rifles. I'm a fan of .30 cal.

 

5.56x45 can be an effective round, but ideally it should be fired from a ~20" barrel with a 1:7 twist, (i.e. an A2 style AR).

 

ymmv.

Edited October 13, 2011 by post-apocalyptic

[BuffetDestroyer 969]

If you are using a weapon for self defense in a non-warzone, you won't be taking shots past 100 yards without facing serious legal consequences proving you were in immediate danger. Both are effective at this distance and within Point Blank Range from 0-100 for both cartridges.

 

There are advantages and negatives to both cartridges. The main are in recoil, penetration, cost, availability, effective lethal range and ballistic drop.

 

Prioritize which is most important to you and you will have an answer.

[Bean.223 365]

Another thing to consider, in a SHTF situation (yes I went there) .223/5.56 is gonna be alot easier to keep supplied on vs. the x39.

But it's a trade off, accuracy vs. heavy hitting. If your in a urban environment get the x39, if your like me and your nearest neighbor is one mile away go with .223.

[YARP 300]

Technology has brought the AK up to par on accuracy. Jim Fuller, Red Jacket, Tromix (the list goes on) builds will give the same accuracy as an AR. On the flip side new materials, small design changes and a hard focus on the AR platform has brought it up to awesome reliability. I look at it as more of a different manual of arms then which one is more accurate/durable.

[ben4345 123]

Another thing to consider, in a SHTF situation (yes I went there) .223/5.56 is gonna be alot easier to keep supplied on vs. the x39.

But it's a trade off, accuracy vs. heavy hitting. If your in a urban environment get the x39, if your like me and your nearest neighbor is one mile away go with .223.

 

 

I thought about this for SHTF, it's better NOT have a common caliber weapon. Imagine half the population of gun owners fighting over .223/5.56, .45, and 9mm. Load up on 5.45x39, no one wants your ammo they won't have anything to shoot it with, unless you're dead.

Edited October 12, 2011 by ben4345

[nlacy 692]

I have a lot of ARs so I got the .223 and a MSA mag adapter. Couldn't be happier.

[vulcan16 971]

I have two 223's, one Saiga 7.62, two other 7.62's, and a couple of 5.45's.

If you want to give the AR guys hell,or you already have a 223, go with a 20 inch 223.

The 7.62 is sweet, but I prefer the 5.45 over all of them.

Lower recoil, cheap ammo, and very accurate.

[rnemhrd 165]

Have you shot both?

Which platform do you like better, AR or AK?

What are your goals with this weapon, hunting, home defense, SHTF rifle or all of the above?

What are you willing to spend?

Are you recoil sensitive?

Do you live in a rural or urban area?

I know what I want it for. That whas the reason for the what do you have and why part.Sorry If this is a beat out topic. Just wanted to know what you have and why you picked it.

Edited October 13, 2011 by rnemhrd

[Bean.223 365]

Another thing to consider, in a SHTF situation (yes I went there) .223/5.56 is gonna be alot easier to keep supplied on vs. the x39.

But it's a trade off, accuracy vs. heavy hitting. If your in a urban environment get the x39, if your like me and your nearest neighbor is one mile away go with .223.

 

 

I thought about this for SHTF, it's better NOT have a common caliber weapon. Imagine half the population of gun owners fighting over .223/5.56, .45, and 9mm. Load up on 5.45x39, no one wants your ammo they won't have anything to shoot it with, unless you're dead.

 

Thats one way of thinking about it, but in the long run(years) the x39 and 5x45 is going to be very hard to get from mutha russia, and there are going to be alot less people equipped to reload these same rounds.

[BuffetDestroyer 969]

Have you shot both?

Which platform do you like better, AR or AK?

What are your goals with this weapon, hunting, home defense, SHTF rifle or all of the above?

What are you willing to spend?

Are you recoil sensitive?

Do you live in a rural or urban area?

I know what I want it for. That whas the reason for the what do you have and why part.

 

Rather than being cryptic, vague and restarting a topic that has been beat to death on this forum , share what you are going to use it for and you will get responses based on your needs and wants.

 

We are happy to help those who help themselves... others will be directed to the search function to see the last 17 times this topic has been posted.

[RobRez 1,895]

I enjoy the 7.62x39 round.I think it is a nice sized bullet that packs a good punch. Bulk surplus ammo of any caliber is less accurate than good hunting ammo, and you can get good or bad ammo for both calibers. I pretty much just let my girlie shoot the .223, as she likes the "no recoil" factor. I have never felt the recoil of the x39 was even worth considering. I am used to hunting calibers that actually Have recoil!

I can get plenty of ammo for it cheaply, and most anywhere. I think that by the time you can no longer find this round, the .223 will also have been phased out of military use. By then, a guy could afford to have a stockpile of Tens of thousands of rounds!

So, I like a solid round that will punch through most anything I want, shoots as accurate as I can shoot it with my iron sights, and is super cheap. For anything distant I use my S-308, or my bolt gun.

[Salmonking 149]

Another thing to consider, in a SHTF situation (yes I went there) .223/5.56 is gonna be alot easier to keep supplied on vs. the x39.

But it's a trade off, accuracy vs. heavy hitting. If your in a urban environment get the x39, if your like me and your nearest neighbor is one mile away go with .223.

 

 

I thought about this for SHTF, it's better NOT have a common caliber weapon. Imagine half the population of gun owners fighting over .223/5.56, .45, and 9mm. Load up on 5.45x39, no one wants your ammo they won't have anything to shoot it with, unless you're dead.

 

Thats one way of thinking about it, but in the long run(years) the x39 and 5x45 is going to be very hard to get from mutha russia, and there are going to be alot less people equipped to reload these same rounds.

 

Remember how difficult it was for find 9mm at walmart after the 2008 election? Hell, it didn't get better down in Florida until mid-late 2010. Common calibers were wiped clean from the shelves due to the panic buying. That's what happens with common calibers. You won't be supplying off military and police like in the movies; they'd probably be supplying off of you. Your best ammo supply will be your own which is why I believe that a 22 LR is essential in any SHTF scenario.

 

7.62x39 offers cheap, quality, defensive ammo. Go for Brown/Silver Bear soft point for hunting. Wolf MC Hollow point for self defense and hunting in a pinch. You can buy cheap, quality military surplus mags if you can't afford the latest poly wonders being produced. Cheap effective optics are available later down the road via POSP. As long as there's a market willing to buy ammunition, there will be vendors.

 

223. has less durable, more expensive magazines, more expensive ammunition, less recoil, and any improved accuracy is mainly due to more accurate ammunition. Really, the only reason to go .223 is if you own an AR, want an AK, but don't want to store a new type of ammunition, or buy new magazines. YMMV.

 

Edit: oh, and .223 may be better if you are already reloading for it.

Edited October 13, 2011 by Salmonking

[rnemhrd 165]

Thanks for the help. Sorry if I was to vague. I have a saiga12. Was looking for a caliber to reach out some for game like deer if I needed to in a SHTF situation where our money aint worth squat and I needed to get my own meat.Use to hunt alot but got fat and lazy and sold my larger hunting guns. I like the AK platform and plan on converting a saiga rifle.I also have A 22lr and 22win mag.From what I have read the 7.62x39 may be the winner. Thanks again everyone. If I could I would buy you all a beer. No I'm not mailing them.

[Marc 147]

I've taken deer with both cartridges and I've never had any that complain about the size, speed or weight of the bullet.

[Bigtwin 219]

If I could I would buy you all a beer. No I'm not mailing them.

 

Damnit! That was what I was hoping for!lol

 

I have the 7.62x39 for a few reasons, one, because that is the caliber the rifle was designed for to start with. Two, because as well as much surplus ammo and, current Russian production and, US current production available and, there is plenty of reload data available(looking at you 5.45 ammo), it just fit! Also the ability to take most small game from pigs to deer In the US, it just made sense to me!

The other calibers have their place, don't get me wrong....they just did not work out for me!

[rnemhrd 165]

I've taken deer with both cartridges and I've never had any that complain about the size, speed or weight of the bullet.

Guessing shot placement really pissed them off though. The old AK addict at the gun shop tried to sway me on 5.45x39 because ammo is dirt cheap and pre ban mags fit the saiga and are cheap as well.(had boxes of mags) A little small for what I want I think. Tried to talk me in to a bulgarian AK as well with US barrels, trigger group, and stocks. No where as nice as the saiga IMO but 922r compliant for 499.At least They should be I think.

Edited October 13, 2011 by rnemhrd

[Marc 147]

I've taken deer with both cartridges and I've never had any that complain about the size, speed or weight of the bullet.

Guessing shot placement really pissed them off though. The old AK addict at the gun shop tried to sway me on 5.45x39 because ammo is dirt cheap and pre ban mags fit the saiga and are cheap as well.(had boxes of mags) A little small for what I want I think. Tried to talk me in to a bulgarian AK as well with US barrels, trigger group, and stocks. No where as nice as the saiga IMO but 922r compliant for 499.At least They should be I think.

 

I've never had any deer complain about shot placement either, lol. I have a 5.45x39 also, though I have never hunted with it...not because I don't think it'll do the job, I just haven't. I may try it this season, this year we can take 3 antlerless deer per day with no season limit...if I get a chance I will let you know how the 5.45 does on Does.

 

ETA: How cheap are the 5.45 mags he had? Are they US made or commie surplus?

Edited October 13, 2011 by Barnett3006

[rnemhrd 165]

surplus I believe. Looked used but in good shape, and I did'nt look at the price. He just grabbed one to show me it fit the saiga.So you will be having A full freezer this year?

[Marc 147]

So you will be having A full freezer this year?

 

I hope to.

[ktcm7271 999]

7.62 hits hard and drops a man HUMANELY!

 

5.56 is a varmint round designed to injure and butcher. Our own military complains about the lack of knock down power, and they are on the good end of it.

 

The easy answer is this: Ask yourself if you want to injure and cause pain with great accuracy, or stop a threat instantly.

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

...Ask yourself if you want to injure and cause pain with great accuracy, or stop a threat instantly.

 

Like most, I just want to end the threat/s. 7.62x39 has proven itself more effective than 5.56x45 in that basic function and can turn cover into concealment, within the range the cartridge was designed for, (~350m).

 

This is an educational video, and for the purposes of this debate, you only have to watch up till ~02:45:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lprGoEpDXJQ

Edited October 13, 2011 by post-apocalyptic

[Arik 565]

I dont own any 223. My AKs are in 7.62 and 5.45. Not because I dont like the 223 just dont want to stock up on yet another caliber. If I were to get a 223 AK I'd prolly go with the Poly or Norinco just to round out my AK collection. Otherwise I'd get a mini14 or a keltec C model. I dont realy want an AR and the ones I do want cost an arm and a leg. If you live in a very populated area I wouldnt recomand a rifle for HD.

 

ATM I can buy over 2000 rounds of 5.45 for under $300! And every store here stocks at least one type of x39. So thats fine for me.

 

Check out the 308 Saiga. Lots of fun but not cheap to shoot. Also Robinson Arms sells the 308 Vepr with a Krebs conversion that takes regular M14 mags. I might pick one of those up sometime next year.

 

For hunting 5.45 works. Theres a guy on another forum that uses a 5.45 and post pics of the kill shot in detail. As close as youre going to get to see what that milsurp bullet does to muscle, bone and soft tissue. Not a lot of knock down power but a very effective end result.