New Models from Legion USA - 030 and 040 type

[MrBoomstick 16]

One dram= 16 oz at least in the apothecary to English system conversions. Not sure what the dram ratings are on the bulk pack but i think its 3 maybe 4 depending on the load. so that would be 16x4= 64 oz it should work then again im still on my first cup of coffee so i may be way off the mark.

[mechsterbator 0]

If it can't eat the cheap stuff, then it's likely fixable to reach that goal.

 

A few quick searches in these forums and you can find bolt polishing to streamline the cycling and gas port modifications to give it more umph.

 

But then you run the risk of it perhaps damaging the rear trunion when you run the really beefy loads.

[Atomic Punk 25]

Any ideas on how short the barrel can go on the 030 without shortening the gas system? I am drooling over the thought of an 030 SBS.

[ramlake 98]

Something I just noticed on the Atlantic 433A after I bought it of course! LOL... theres no Birdcage only a thread protector. Legions website shows differently, might be why they are advertised at a lower price.

 

IZ-433 Legions only have a protector. I just recieved 2 of them.

Edited January 16, 2012 by RamLake

[gregomega 929]

IZ-433 Legions only have a protector. I just recieved 2 of them.

 

Dont forget to post pics in the S12 pic thread

[moshaholic2 1]

I have an order in from RSR but they dont list them in stock yet. Where are you guys getting them other than Atlantic?

 

The pre-"converted" ones look lacking to me. Plastic trigger guard, non welded up old trigger holes, no pistol grip reinforcement ...

 

I'm going to start w/ the basic model for my conversion.

[slostang 80]

I have an order in from RSR but they dont list them in stock yet. Where are you guys getting them other than Atlantic?

 

The pre-"converted" ones look lacking to me. Plastic trigger guard, non welded up old trigger holes, no pistol grip reinforcement ...

 

I'm going to start w/ the basic model for my conversion.

How much were they through rsr? I am also an rsr dealer.

[moshaholic2 1]

I'm not an RSR dealer, thats just who my local FFL uses..... but retail through them was $1199

 

put a call in and tell them to hurry up please

[PapaZorro 401]

I think I remember Sergi saying that you need at least 32 dram loads. I'm not up on my dram to ounces conversions but I'm guessing the Federal Valuepacks are less than that (again, just a guess). I can just see all the, "OMG my 030/040 is a POS because it won't cycle like my 109!" threads. Not having an adjustable gas system won't help this matter either.

Cool man, thank you for clarifying. That makes sence. And yeah, I'm sure they'll be plenty of those threads. For the 030 anyway. I think the 40 models have the regulator still.

32 drams is 2 ounces. So no bulk birdshot right out of the box if thats true. Hopefully theres some mods that can be done.

Sorry, my bad. I found the other thread. He said 28 dram (not 32). So what's that, 1 3/4 ounces?

 

 

Sergii said about 28 gram not dram!!!

 

To convert grams (g) to ounces (oz) is easy here.

 

I don't have Saiga-030, but using my own Vepr-12 experience, IMHO, US market Saiga-030 will work stable with 32-44 g shells from the box, they has similar barrel to Vepr-12 VPO-205-01 (520 mm). Most Vepr-12 VPO-205- 00,01,02 (430,520,680 mm barrel) works from the box with 32-44 g shells, except Vepr-12 VPO-205-03 (305 mm barrel) that is design to stable work with magnum shells (44g) without muzzle extenders.

 

With some adjustments (polish of: bolt carrier, bolt carrier rails on the receiver and trigger group) both my Vepr-12 works stable with 28-44 g shells! For more stable work with 28 g shells is also recommended to change standard puck and spring for short versions. Both my Vepr-12 (430 and 540 mm barrel) also works stable with both 7/8 and 1 oz Lee slugs.

 

I don't think Saiga-030 will works differently then Vepr-12.

Edited January 17, 2012 by PapaZorro

[gregomega 929]

Sergii said about 28 gram not dram!!!

thats funny right there

To convert grams (g) to ounces (oz) is easy here.

 

I don't have Saiga-030, but using my own Vepr-12 experience, IMHO, US market Saiga-030 will work stable with 32-44 g shells from the box, they has similar barrel to Vepr-12 VPO-205-01 (520 mm). Most Vepr-12 VPO-205- 00,01,02 (430,520,680 mm barrel) works from the box with 32-44 g shells, except Vepr-12 VPO-205-03 (305 mm barrel) that is design to stable work with magnum shells (44g) without muzzle extenders.

 

With some adjustments (polish of: bolt carrier, bolt carrier rails on the receiver and trigger group) both my Vepr-12 works stable with 28-44 g shells! For more stable work with 28 g shells also recommended to change standard puck and spring for short versions. Both my Vepr-12 (430 and 540 mm barrel) also works stable with both 7/8 and 1 oz Lee slugs.

 

I don't think Saiga-030 will works differently then Vepr-12.

 

I hope thats the case. If not, im sure its easily rectified.

[PapaZorro 401]

One dram= 16 oz at least in the apothecary to English system conversions.

One Dram can contain from 1 MB to 256 MB of lethal and dangerous information

44 Dram - this is the most Secret Russian 12 Ga shotshell type for Saiga and Vepr....

Edited January 17, 2012 by PapaZorro

[sunnybean 939]

Doh! In the other thread Sergi was talking grams and I was talking drams. Sorry for the confusion. Math and conversions...never my best subject. Now, where did the other half of this bottle malbec go???

[incognito485 26]

+1 This was all talked about here when the red dragun was first talked about on this site.

Ive been involved with the RD ver 30s deal since april, 11' on this site before any of the news even reached this forum. Nothing new to me.

 

2,500 is way to high, but hey people are looking to make money off of just buying a stock "OEM" sporter030 to add to their franklin mint coins, die-cast model cars collection.

My build is better then all builds because I did it.

How do I put this....

 

I am not willing to pay $2500 ANY of these period, Reddragun, legion, MK himself built it with his bare hands, no thanks. I would rather pay a pro to do it and get the cheaper S12 without the tapco on it.

 

Im basically wanting:

-any and all unused holes welded and refinished.

-either a russian folder or standard fixed stock added(kvar/bulgy/romy) not tapco.

- akbuilder/md style trigger guard rivited

 

The majority of people on this forum can do the FCG conversion part. If you cant, learn, its really really really easy.

 

and there are plenty of capable builders out there that are looking for business and will do it at a decent price and wont take months and months and months to get the job done. It better shoot lightning bolts if its gonna take that long IMO.

 

 

As for RedDragun vs Legion, I would rather have a Reddragun 030 1/200 w/railed GB over a legion 1/50000 anyday. It may matter to some for authenticity reasons but I just dont want to see a something bolted to my gas block if I dont have to. Id rather have one solid piece from the factory and if you have to add it your self or have a smith do it that takes away form the value IMO as you have to pay for the part, shipping from kvar isn't cheap, then ship the part and gun to a smith have him install it adding to the work you could possibly have done and shipping back to you. If you do it yourself good luck not scratching it up and have to buy some sort of guncote to fix it which costs more+shipping and painting supplies. It all adds up and to me is cheaper and more valuable IMO to have it done already from the factory. just my

 

But if I dont ever get my reddraguns, I'll get an unconverted and do like I said. No tapco for me thank you.

 

 

If I was strapped for cash or just wanted to do the conversion myself, there is nothing wrong with that either, to each his own.

 

all in all, ver 30/40, converted or whatever, they still only shoot 12 gauge shells. so its all good. do what you want to your guns, within the law of course, and have fun. thats what its about.

 

Very true. But I don't understand why the Tapco buttstocks are being installed. I would think that most S12 owners and "purists" would pull that thing off and put a Warsaw or Nato stock on it. Or.........not be willing to pay that price for a gun with a Tapco stock..... I know I wouldn't. It actually peaked my interest until I saw that.

Edited January 19, 2012 by incognito485

[gregomega 929]

Very true. But I don't understand why the Tapco buttstocks are being installed.

That sir is one of the great mystery's of the universe. If I had to guess, Id say they did it to minimize cost & maximize profit for the amount of work done so those who are unwilling to learn how to convert their own guns have to pay the price....IMO.

 

I would think that most S12 owners and "purists" would pull that thing off and put a Warsaw or Nato stock on it. Or.........not be willing to pay that price for a gun with a Tapco stock..... I know I wouldn't. It actually peaked my interest until I saw that.

Truth

[incognito485 26]

I'm not knocking Legion but I do have some concerns about the guns. They do look nice but when I compare them to to my $800 SGL-31 which has no trigger holes and comes with a Warsaw stock, I'm a little perplexed. And yes I am partial to my AK, but I think that if you're gonna pay that kind of price for that kind of gun, you should expect certain things. Why not go ahead and weld up the trigger holes and and put a decent russan style stock on them? I mean your paying a minimum $1000 for a basic converted gun that has visible rivets, and a Tapco stock. Do we even know if these things are going to be reliable with low brass loads out of the factory? I'm guessing that they probably aren't. Has anyone from Legion confirmed that these are NOT DIY TG's being placed on here? That there are PG holes cut. These are some things that eveyone needs to think about when buying one of these. I'm with AZG on this one.............somebody is cutting corners to maximize profit if this is the true product Now, I have not seen one in person, so this may differ from the pictures seen on the website.

 

 

This is what I have a problem with. In this picture take a look at the nylon plugs. It appears that a 3/16" nylon plug has been jammed into the existing hole wihout being drilled out to the proper size. It looks like the the material is actually being sheered off because it doesn't fit. Ask me how I know this.

 

Again I'm not knocking Legion by any means, I just expected a little more from them that's all.

[ramlake 98]

I'm not knocking Legion but I do have some concerns about the guns. They do look nice but when I compare them to to my $800 SGL-31 which has no trigger holes and comes with a Warsaw stock, I'm a little perplexed. And yes I am partial to my AK, but I think that if you're gonna pay that kind of price for that kind of gun, you should expect certain things. Why not go ahead and weld up the trigger holes and and put a decent russan style stock on them? I mean your paying a minimum $1000 for a basic converted gun that has visible rivets, and a Tapco stock. Do we even know if these things are going to be reliable with low brass loads out of the factory? I'm guessing that they probably aren't. Has anyone from Legion confirmed that these are NOT DIY TG's being placed on here? That there are PG holes cut. These are some things that eveyone needs to think about when buying one of these. I'm with AZG on this one.............somebody is cutting corners to maximize profit if this is the true product Now, I have not seen one in person, so this may differ from the pictures seen on the website.

 

 

This is what I have a problem with. In this picture take a look at the nylon plugs. It appears that a 3/16" nylon plug has been jammed into the existing hole wihout being drilled out to the proper size. It looks like the the material is actually being sheered off because it doesn't fit. Ask me how I know this.

 

Again I'm not knocking Legion by any means, I just expected a little more from them that's all.

 

I will remove the bottom plate tonight and post what I find.

[gregomega 929]

Really just wanted an IZL-46

PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHEN YOU GET THESE IN

[ramlake 98]

I'm not knocking Legion but I do have some concerns about the guns. They do look nice but when I compare them to to my $800 SGL-31 which has no trigger holes and comes with a Warsaw stock, I'm a little perplexed. And yes I am partial to my AK, but I think that if you're gonna pay that kind of price for that kind of gun, you should expect certain things. Why not go ahead and weld up the trigger holes and and put a decent russan style stock on them? I mean your paying a minimum $1000 for a basic converted gun that has visible rivets, and a Tapco stock. Do we even know if these things are going to be reliable with low brass loads out of the factory? I'm guessing that they probably aren't. Has anyone from Legion confirmed that these are NOT DIY TG's being placed on here? That there are PG holes cut. These are some things that eveyone needs to think about when buying one of these. I'm with AZG on this one.............somebody is cutting corners to maximize profit if this is the true product Now, I have not seen one in person, so this may differ from the pictures seen on the website.

 

 

This is what I have a problem with. In this picture take a look at the nylon plugs. It appears that a 3/16" nylon plug has been jammed into the existing hole wihout being drilled out to the proper size. It looks like the the material is actually being sheered off because it doesn't fit. Ask me how I know this.

 

Again I'm not knocking Legion by any means, I just expected a little more from them that's all.

 

I will remove the bottom plate tonight and post what I find.

 

Under plate same as s12.....no PG nut opening

 

Really just wanted an IZL-46

PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHEN YOU GET THESE IN

 

I found this

 

[gregomega 929]

I found this

 

 

That is what you call the holy grail. Saigatechusa made most of the parts himself. This I would pay $2500 for all day long. Its actually worth more.

 

Now you understand what I want the IZL-46 for. This has been my inspiration all along.

Edited January 19, 2012 by AZG

[HART1 92]

Okay, I've just finished looking at the 030 and 040 pics. I even looked at the Alantic site and I haven't seen anyone pick up on this yet.

I have a IZ-109BHO and also ordered the RD 030. My shotgun and the RD 030 have the BHO button behind the magwell. On the 030 model Legion and Atlantic sells doesn't seem to have this but the 040 model looks like it does. Why is this????

Edited January 20, 2012 by ARMOR

[ramlake 98]

Okay, I've just finished looking at the 030 and 040 pics. I even looked at the Alantic site and I haven't seen anyone pick up on this yet.

I have a IZ-109BHO and also ordered the RD 030. My shotgun and the RD 030 have the BHO button behind the magwell. On the 030 model Legion and Atlantic sells doesn't seem to have this but the 040 model looks like it does. Why is this????

 

The legion model 030 has the same LBHO as the IZ-109 LBHO model. I just recieved 2

[HART1 92]

That's cool. I wonder why it wasn't in the pic? Even the Atlantic one doesn't show the manual button behind the magwell in the pics. http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct1095.aspx

[ramlake 98]

That's cool. I wonder why it wasn't in the pic? Even the Atlantic one doesn't show the manual button behind the magwell in the pics. http://www.atlanticf...roduct1095.aspx

 

It's there just hard to see....poor pics I downloaded and magnified and you can barely make it out.

[ramlake 98]

Makes me hope that we could be closer to getting our 030's from Red Dragunz.

How long has it been since the first people ordered? 2010 IIRC. Sucks. Looks like everyone grossly overpaid for them as well. You guys didn't have another option back then and I can understand why you jumped on it. Hope it works out and doesn't turn into another pre-order gone bad.

 

I don't think we grossly over paid... $1,500.00 is close to what Legion is getting. Besides, Legion's version won't have the factory installed rail on the bottom of the gas block. Now that doesn't mean much to the average Joe Shootemup. But for someone who is making the purchase as more of an investment, it's a big deal. We are supposedly getting one of the only 200 that will be imported into the states.

 

I looks like it had the rail and Izhmash just milled it off

[havok 21]

Makes me hope that we could be closer to getting our 030's from Red Dragunz.

How long has it been since the first people ordered? 2010 IIRC. Sucks. Looks like everyone grossly overpaid for them as well. You guys didn't have another option back then and I can understand why you jumped on it. Hope it works out and doesn't turn into another pre-order gone bad.

 

I don't think we grossly over paid... $1,500.00 is close to what Legion is getting. Besides, Legion's version won't have the factory installed rail on the bottom of the gas block. Now that doesn't mean much to the average Joe Shootemup. But for someone who is making the purchase as more of an investment, it's a big deal. We are supposedly getting one of the only 200 that will be imported into the states.

 

I looks like it had the rail and Izhmash just milled it off

 

 

That was clear in all of the pic's, people just don't know what they spent there money on OEM,bolton rail,unconverted stock. why would anyone want that stockthat come's on the red dagun 030.

As far as low brass goes, these were designed to shoot buckshot and slug's at human targets not for the trap range or drum dump at no target ,into the dirt shooting. This gun's gas system/gas block is made no differant then what has been seen in the video on izhmash web site for year's now.

[ramlake 98]

Makes me hope that we could be closer to getting our 030's from Red Dragunz.

How long has it been since the first people ordered? 2010 IIRC. Sucks. Looks like everyone grossly overpaid for them as well. You guys didn't have another option back then and I can understand why you jumped on it. Hope it works out and doesn't turn into another pre-order gone bad.

 

I don't think we grossly over paid... $1,500.00 is close to what Legion is getting. Besides, Legion's version won't have the factory installed rail on the bottom of the gas block. Now that doesn't mean much to the average Joe Shootemup. But for someone who is making the purchase as more of an investment, it's a big deal. We are supposedly getting one of the only 200 that will be imported into the states.

 

I looks like it had the rail and Izhmash just milled it off

 

 

That was clear in all of the pic's, people just don't know what they spent there money on OEM,bolton rail,unconverted stock. why would anyone want that stockthat come's on the red dagun 030.

As far as low brass goes, these were designed to shoot buckshot and slug's at human targets not for the trap range or drum dump at no target ,into the dirt shooting. This gun's gas system/gas block is made no differant then what has been seen in the video on izhmash web site for year's now.

 

Yes and this is what I have read for years also, and here it is

 

 

(The magazine can be charged with any twelve gauge ammunition - even 70, 73 and 76 mm long at the same time. The shotgun can fire both standard and non-lethal ammunition.)

 

This does not sound to me like it only shots military grade buckshot or slugs

[gunfun 3,931]

Find their advertising video for the other saigas. It is a slight possibility that people selling something might claim a bit more than they can back up.

[Alpha Kilo 42]

(The magazine can be charged with any twelve gauge ammunition - even 70, 73 and 76 mm long at the same time. The shotgun can fire both standard and non-lethal ammunition.)

 

This does not sound to me like it only shots military grade buckshot or slugs

 

The magazine CAN be charged with it, it didn't say anything about firing it and automatically loading the next round! haha

[havok 21]

Makes me hope that we could be closer to getting our 030's from Red Dragunz.

How long has it been since the first people ordered? 2010 IIRC. Sucks. Looks like everyone grossly overpaid for them as well. You guys didn't have another option back then and I can understand why you jumped on it. Hope it works out and doesn't turn into another pre-order gone bad.

 

I don't think we grossly over paid... $1,500.00 is close to what Legion is getting. Besides, Legion's version won't have the factory installed rail on the bottom of the gas block. Now that doesn't mean much to the average Joe Shootemup. But for someone who is making the purchase as more of an investment, it's a big deal. We are supposedly getting one of the only 200 that will be imported into the states.

 

I looks like it had the rail and Izhmash just milled it off

 

 

That was clear in all of the pic's, people just don't know what they spent there money on OEM,bolton rail,unconverted stock. why would anyone want that stockthat come's on the red dagun 030.

As far as low brass goes, these were designed to shoot buckshot and slug's at human targets not for the trap range or drum dump at no target ,into the dirt shooting. This gun's gas system/gas block is made no differant then what has been seen in the video on izhmash web site for year's now.

 

Yes and this is what I have read for years also, and here it is

 

 

(The magazine can be charged with any twelve gauge ammunition - even 70, 73 and 76 mm long at the same time. The shotgun can fire both standard and non-lethal ammunition.)

 

This does not sound to me like it only shots military grade buckshot or slugs

 

In the video the man say's can be charged with "ALMOST" any 12 gauge shot, buckshot or slug. It is known that no semiauto shotgun will cycle less then lethal ammo unless the gun is made to shot-cycle ltl ammo.

The 030 can be charged with ltl ammo and hand cycled is my guess.

Just like the tac47 auto plug it is limited the autoplug can shoot low powder loads but not 3'' buck, slug,turkey loads. And the 030 will shoot the 3'' shotshell all day every day and may or may not shoot the cheap shit..

[gregomega 929]

Do these have night sights? I noticed they are on the reddragun's and was curious if the legion's have them? anyone?