Any cops reading?

[Redhunter2486 22]

I was wondering what the deal was with "no knock" warrants, specifically how the officers are to identify themselves? I mean if I hear my dog growl at 1am and grab the 870 from behind the headboard im probably squeezing off the 1st round as soon as I'm sure its a forced entry. I read a local article today referencing an officer being shot in a no knock warrant situation.

[chevyman097 2,579]

[MT Predator 2,294]

I believe you have to be facing a threat to squeeze one off. Just because the guy is kicking down your door to steal a TV doesn't mean you can kill him.

[cvhanh20 1,052]

Someone kicks in my door, they're getting shot! I'm not going to wait to see what sweet harm they have planned for me and the people I live for! If it's LEO and they announce that then that might be a different story, but the way things are going today with so many fake cops out there I'd still be ready.

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

Just because the guy is kicking down your door to steal a TV doesn't mean you can kill him.

Yes it does, at least here in Alabama and in many other States with sane Castle Doctrine laws.

 

Dammit Makc, we need a dislike button.

Edited December 5, 2012 by ChileRelleno

[DogMan 2,343]

Come through my door by force and you better have already convinced me beyond any doubt that you're a cop. And because cops would have no reason to be breaking down my door, I'm going to be very hard to convince. If you have the wrong address then you are going to have to live or die with the consequences of your own mistakes. If you are foolish enough to tell me you are just there for my TV then you just made my job easier, I won't believe you, and may you rest in peace.

[thebuns1 4,323]

Anyone kicks in my door, but they will leave in a body bag.

[6500rpm 670]

I'm with you guys with the Castle Doctrine alive and well in Missouri also. I don't cross lines to expect a copper to be kicking my door in, so that would be the last thing on my mind. I would like to hear a cops point of view, but it sounds like a no win situation for everyone.

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

In all seriousness to the OP, everyone else and myself included.

If your abode is wrongly/mistakenly No-Knocked for whatever reason(s), and you mount an armed resistance, the Police will attempt kill you.

Especially, if you do in fact fire on them and/or injure or kill one of their own. And they are more than capable of over powering you with numbers and firepower.

If you so happen to survive their retaliation, they have even gone so far as to withhold emergency treatment of your wounds until you expire.

They want you dead, dead men can't sue them, witness/testify in court or personally lead the public outcry of rage.

 

At least with the criminals, we've a good chance of them turning tail and retreating when faced with an armed and determined defense.

 

We are in all likelihood, damned if we do and damned if we don't.

Edited December 5, 2012 by ChileRelleno

[Redhunter2486 22]

That's kinda what it looked like to me too Chile, just hoping to get an inside view of it or maybe there's somthing I dont understand about the "no knock" warrant procedure, seems like if I were a cop I wouldn't want to do this

[zenman223 460]

Yep, If the police kick your door in by accident or otherwise and you fire on them, (especially if you hit or kill one) no question about it around here at least, you will be killed.

 

The fact that its the wrong address is just a terrible mistake and no one will be charged or punished for it, assuming your dead. If you live they'll try an charge you with something for sure.

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

That's kinda what it looked like to me too Chile, just hoping to get an inside view of it or maybe there's somthing I dont understand about the "no knock" warrant procedure, seems like if I were a cop I wouldn't want to do this

For most it is just a dirty job that must be done.

Some of them live for it, for the adrenaline rush, the thrill, a part of the job they'd probably do without being paid to do it... Just like me with skydiving.

A very few psychos, do it with hopes of being able to legally/justifiably shoot someone with little chance of being held accountable.

Edited December 6, 2012 by ChileRelleno

[Voltia 375]

I'm just surprised there hasn't been a Supreme Court case yet of <Some paralyzed fucked up dude vs LAPD> that puts this no knock bullshit to rest.

 

No Knock Warrants are Not Needed. Any comments about "oh they can destroy evidence" is bullshit, and proof that the police could learn how to

do a better job.

[thebuns1 4,323]

Either way we lose. Thats the sad part.

[mancat 2,368]

The best thing that could happen is for everyone ever faced with a no-knock warrant to sue, especially if they are not the target. Enough cases and it could potentially cause city or county PD insurance policies to raise, or refusal to insure for departments that carry out no-knock warrants.

 

Unfortunately the justice system is slanted to the point that when even an officer or PD makes an egregious error, they are seen as infallible and entitled to a free pass on these types of mistakes. That coupled with the fact that no-knock warrants often do net a conviction, ensures that the above is unlikely to ever happen.

[Lone Eagle 839]

I believe you have to be facing a threat to squeeze one off. Just because the guy is kicking down your door to steal a TV doesn't mean you can kill him.

 

When you kick my door in, how do I know you are there strictly for the TV?

 

As for "no knock" warrants, kinda hard to kick in a door that swings out.

[D.C.MORRISON 494]

I have preached against this dynamic entry crap for years. it has just gone from bad to very bad to out of control. I put the road blocks and random searches in the same category. naturally, the police on the streets do not make the policy.

heavy handed military tactics used against civilians. was one of the causes of the war for independence.

[454496 71]

If someone kicks in my door at 1:00am it is a lose- lose situation for them.

 

I sleep in the nude and have a sagia 12ga.

[DogMan 2,343]

Yep, If the police kick your door in by accident or otherwise and you fire on them, (especially if you hit or kill one) no question about it around here at least, you will be killed.

 

The fact that its the wrong address is just a terrible mistake and no one will be charged or punished for it, assuming your dead. If you live they'll try an charge you with something for sure.

You might as well fire because there is a good chance you are going to be killed anyway if there is a gun anywhere around. Like you said, even if you aren't the bad guy they were looking for, they'll make you look like one before the coroner shows up. If I'm going down I'd rather take one of these scumbags out with me.

http://en.wikipedia....hnston_shooting

 

Edited December 6, 2012 by DogMan

[YOT 3,743]

There's a whole lot'a heroing and martyring goin' on 'round heya.

[garnaz 215]

There's a case here in az around the same lines.Don't know all facts because I wasn't there. From what has been reported swat team beating on door to arrest suspected drug dealer/gun runner.

Guys wife hears what sounds to be someone kicking in door wakes her husband (veteran) he goes to investigate with his M4.

 

Well he ended up dead.And the swat teams response is they returned gun fire.

 

The retold story is they were actually looking for his brother who didn't live there and they found his rifle on safe and never fired his weapon.

 

Someone fucked up and now a possibly innocent man is dead.

[rnemhrd 165]

There's a case here in az around the same lines.Don't know all facts because I wasn't there. From what has been reported swat team beating on door to arrest suspected drug dealer/gun runner.

Guys wife hears what sounds to be someone kicking in door wakes her husband (veteran) he goes to investigate with his M4.

 

Well he ended up dead.And the swat teams response is they returned gun fire.

 

The retold story is they were actually looking for his brother who didn't live there and they found his rifle on safe and never fired his weapon.

 

Someone fucked up and now a possibly innocent man is dead.

I know people make mistakes, but with wrongful death Mistake or not, cop or not. I'm in the eye for a fucking eye crowd. If I was his family . You took mine I want yours bro. Sorry if it sounds harsh. Remember. They are trained proffesionals... I'm not a cop hater, have good friends that are good cops. Just that there is'nt room for mistakes like that. All they get is a slap on the wrist most cases. Edited December 6, 2012 by rnemhrd

[garnaz 215]

There's a case here in az around the same lines.Don't know all facts because I wasn't there. From what has been reported swat team beating on door to arrest suspected drug dealer/gun runner.

Guys wife hears what sounds to be someone kicking in door wakes her husband (veteran) he goes to investigate with his M4.

 

Well he ended up dead.And the swat teams response is they returned gun fire.

 

The retold story is they were actually looking for his brother who didn't live there and they found his rifle on safe and never fired his weapon.

 

Someone fucked up and now a possibly innocent man is dead.

I know people make mistakes, but with wrongful death Mistake or not, cop or not. I'm in the eye for a fucking eye crowd. If I was his family . You took mine I want yours bro. Sorry if it sounds harsh. Remember. They are trained proffesionals... I'm not a cop hater, have good friends that are good cops. Just that there is'nt room for mistakes like that. All they get is a slap on the wrist most cases.

 

I agree with what you say.

Someone needs to be held accountable

[Shankspony 40]

I'm in the section cheering for announced entry. The idea of anyone allowed to break into my domicile unannounced is terrifying. Even if the LEO's target is known to be inside, there are too many factors unknown for an entry to be safe for either party at anytime. Wait until target leaves the building. I'm a huge fan of order - even through martial governance, but unannounced entry is too 1984 even for me.

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

I believe you have to be facing a threat to squeeze one off. Just because the guy is kicking down your door to steal a TV doesn't mean you can kill him.

Not sure what state your in, but Texas law an intruders presence is in of it's self deemed to be threatening. When you kick in that door or beak in that window out simply find an unlocked door to a residece, the law assumes you mean the inhabitants harm, and justifies use if lethal force to stop you from continuing to be a threat. The resident is of no further obligation to prove or assess the level of violence you might have intended to commit.

That is how it should be, it's not practical our even safe to try to access that level of detail in a high stress situation for anybody outside of law enforcement. Even then with all that training its a big risk.

 

eta: for spelling/grammar

Edited December 7, 2012 by poolingmyignorance

[ben4345 123]

In all seriousness to the OP, everyone else and myself included.

If your abode is wrongly/mistakenly No-Knocked for whatever reason(s), and you mount an armed resistance, the Police will attempt kill you.

Especially, if you do in fact fire on them and/or injure or kill one of their own. And they are more than capable of over powering you with numbers and firepower.

If you so happen to survive their retaliation, they have even gone so far as to withhold emergency treatment of your wounds until you expire.

They want you dead, dead men can't sue them, witness/testify in court or personally lead the public outcry of rage.

 

At least with the criminals, we've a good chance of them turning tail and retreating when faced with an armed and determined defense.

 

We are in all likelihood, damned if we do and damned if we don't.

 

They'll also tell everyone you were a terrorist and they did the right thing.

[Mwestra 8]

No-Knocks are very dangerous for law enforcement. It is not by our choice that we enter this way. I have gone in after fugitives with no knock warrants. we bring lots of firepower, and manpower. We expect resistance. The use of a no knock is to surprise and quickly overcome the fugitive. Typically in my area we only use no-knock warrants if your a very dangerous person and there is no other safe way to bring you to justice. The average officer does not want to put themselves in this situation. however there are a handful that I would consider psycho. these guys live for these moments. I have been involved in a shooting, A very bad person rushed me with a knife, by the time I saw him it was to late, Luckily my partner saw him and took him out. He dropped only 4 feet from me. Before this incident I was one of those "psychos" I wanted the action, I enjoyed the adrenaline. That is why I became a cop. After that incident, I don't want a gunfight, But if one came looking for me I would end it quickly and violently. no knock warrants are a necessary evil, I feel they are used way to much and put good officer in harms way unnecessarily.

[Bayoupiper 738]

Yep, If the police kick your door in by accident or otherwise and you fire on them, (especially if you hit or kill one) no question about it around here at least, you will be killed.

 

The fact that its the wrong address is just a terrible mistake and no one will be charged or punished for it, assuming your dead. If you live they'll try an charge you with something for sure.

 

 

Wrong.

 

The cop that identified the wrong address will get nailed for it.

Probably prosecuted and convicted.

 

But you will never hear about it.

[zenman223 460]

Yep, If the police kick your door in by accident or otherwise and you fire on them, (especially if you hit or kill one) no question about it around here at least, you will be killed.

 

The fact that its the wrong address is just a terrible mistake and no one will be charged or punished for it, assuming your dead. If you live they'll try an charge you with something for sure.

 

 

Wrong.

 

The cop that identified the wrong address will get nailed for it.

Probably prosecuted and convicted.

 

But you will never hear about it.

 

Prosecuted????....... Convicted, you say?.............

 

Glad thats how it is where you live, NOT HERE.

[MT Predator 2,294]

I'm well aware of the Castle Doctrine but it doesn't mean the OP is in a state that has one. I'm in the Gunshine State so yes, I'm lighting someone's ass up if they kick in my door.