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Saiga 308 good long range rifle?


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#1 AShotInTheDark

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 12:06 AM

Saiga 308 good long range rifle?

 

Query about the Saiga 308 please:

 

I own three different Saiga rifles. My intention was to use the Saiga 308 rifle as a long-range hunting rifle. Accordingly, long-range accuracy would be critical.

 

Seeking opinions, please, if the Saiga 308 rifle is a decent long-range accurate rifle?

 

If I decide to go with a different 308 rifle for long-range purposes, anyone have any suggestions on what other 308 rifle to go with over the Saiga 308?

 

I definitely am not going to let go of my other two Saiga rifles; I like them a lot.

 

Thanks


Edited by AShotInTheDark1, 23 June 2013 - 12:17 AM.

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#2 Rhodes1968

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 01:59 AM

Not knowing the range or prey.... but sticking with the 308 rifles. Long range to you may be 300m or 1000m or some other distance in between.

 

The Saiga is on par with the FAL generally, both mainly a 300m rifle.

You will have to find what ammo or load gives the best groups and that is unavoidable.

Of course the Saiga will eat anything short of rocks but group size will wander depending on ammo.

 

Accuracy as far as the rifle itself comes from tight tolerances as does failures and picky eaters. Case in point is the AR-10.

IF and I mean IF you can find a GOOD M1A it is likely the best accuracy out there in an MBR. But bro they do vary in quality and results.

 

If you want a hunting rifle a good boltie cant be beat but the Saiga is a MBR, it can hunt sure but it isnt really designed for it.

 

In short its a rifle for those times the "deer" may be shooting back.


Edited by Rhodes1968, 23 June 2013 - 02:04 AM.

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#3 Nailbomb

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 06:29 AM

a descent specimen with good build quality on the conversion, and the ammo it likes will probably net a 1.5MOA gun.

 

And just because you can doesn't mean you should. 7.62x51 or .308 is best used under 700m

 

biggest things are a good trigger to help you the shooter do your job, and a nice barrel crown. with the glass added its going to be kindof heavy, and if you want a bipod mount it off the receiver as to not disturb the barrel.


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#4 Bunker83

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 07:50 AM

308 realy kinda shits out at 800 yards. If you have the room, and you want to stretch your legs theres several other cartridges that are way better than the 308. Pick up some reloading books. the 260 remmington (308 necked down ) is pretty impressive and the 6.5 grendel is also a great round, 7,62 by 39 necked down to .264. BC values are great!



#5 AShotInTheDark

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 08:40 AM

Well right now I have the original factory 308 trigger which is horrible and definitely does not help accuracy.

I am not handy, but if I can find someone to do this, (pay then of course), this would be awesome, and it is free:

Gun smiths near me will not work on AK's


Edited by AShotInTheDark1, 23 June 2013 - 08:45 AM.

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#6 Nailbomb

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 09:47 AM

Why pay someone for that and not just do a Basic conversion? That setup retains additional linkage and will introduce more creep.

 

If your paying someone to work on your gun for you your transferring through a FFL, at that point your commited to a higher cost through shipping at a minimum.

 

Just bite the bullet man. Get a basic conversion , and a proper crown done.


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#7 ShadowFire

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 12:33 PM

Gun smiths near me will not work on AK's

 

 

I found that out early in my gun loving life too.

 

Read up near my pic there where it says "You CAN do it yourself" because you actually can.

 

Bare in mind, you have people in Pakistan building half way decent AKs with hand tools.  You have a leg up on them, you have access to quality parts.

 

A lot of these guys around here can help you convert it yourself and pretty easily too, take advantage of the opportunity, a lot of them have gone through many trials and errors ahead of you and that makes your conversion easier.  Being unsure and asking a question to play it safe before you do something is a lot smarter than you may think you might look.  A stupid question can be answered, but stupid mistakes are sometimes harder to fix if not impossible, feel very free to ask a question.

 

There is one rule I like to give to new guys when working on a conversion.  That is this.  You can take the material off easy, but you may not be able to put it back on.  Better to be slow as Christmas and take it easy than to screw up a whole workpiece and be up a creek without a paddle.  But do not let it scare you.  This is certainly not rocket science.  You can do this.

 

I don't have a S308.  I have a VEPR .308 and I converted a S12 (so I still know a little bit about what you're in for.)  However to some degree it's the same thing, an AK variant chambered for the same round (VEPR .308).  If you have a 1:12 twist rate (Chances are you do.) you will find anything below 168 grain to a certain degree will likely be more to your liking at the ranges talked about by other members already.  You get into stuff above that, you could use a 1:10 twist rate.  Also understand that it is not a thick profiled barrel and you have more moving parts, so your accuracy will suffer the farther out you go.  This is why breech block, lever actions, pump action rifles and bolt actions will be more accurate, because fewer parts move due to the need to manually cycle the action.  However for my application, I hunt with my VEPR .308 because it fits the ranges I have to work with.

 

If you're going to do it, I recommend a double hook trigger and to polish your contact points on the trigger, this will smooth out the pull but give you a better feel for the trigger.  Also if you can find one (or make one) that is also an adjustable trigger, it will help eliminate trigger creep forward and back giving you a better pull.

 

I use a basic single hook, but I'm actually used to the trigger, just depends on what you are comfortable with.  Because in the end if you can put the round on the game in the right spot, that's about all you can ask for.  :)


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#8 TacSat

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 03:16 PM

The 308 is the eaistest to convert. one hole for the trigger guard you have to add and square hole for pistol grip. very simple to do with dremel. or if you perfer a bolt on pg nut with trigger guard. No drilling out rivets of old trigger.


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#9 deadeye

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 09:00 PM

308s have saifty  mods that other conversons don't      just a reminder


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#10 Nailbomb

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 10:29 PM

308s have saifty  mods that other conversons don't      just a reminder

Valid point.


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Eleanor Roosevelt, First Lady of the United States, 1945
"I've always felt that the real horror is next door to us, that the scariest monsters are our neighbors."
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#11 AShotInTheDark

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 03:59 AM

The 308 is the eaistest to convert. one hole for the trigger guard you have to add and square hole for pistol grip. very simple to do with dremel. or if you perfer a bolt on pg nut with trigger guard. No drilling out rivets of old trigger.

I am in NY and thus cannot convert.

That is why the trigger fix showed in the YouTube video video above seems a good answer for me.

I just do not think I can do it alone with my level of expertise.


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#12 Rhodes1968

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 08:12 AM

Well if you cannot convert and wish good accuracy I would say go the M1A route.

 

No evil features outside of the mag though check your shadowy overlords rules for such.

 

PS

They aint cheap.


Edited by Rhodes1968, 24 June 2013 - 08:14 AM.

Had the Japanese got as far as India, Gandhi's theories of "passive resistance" would have floated down the Ganges River with his bayoneted, beheaded carcass. -- Mike Vanderboegh.

#13 Red Star

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 04:48 PM

accuracy from a bone-stock saiga is really pretty damn good.

 

If you cannot convert, and are wary of converting it yourself, I would suggest staying away from the trigger job show above. You really need to know how that FCG works, because if you mess it up, you will have a very dangerous rifle on your hands. 

 

The first Saiga that i got I have left unconverted, and it shoots really well. The trigger wont win any awards, but after a couple hundred rounds you really do learn to use it well.

 

I would say to get more ammo and practice with it. Really pay attention to how the trigger feels. Once you have your particular trigger figured out, you will be good to go. :)


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#14 TacSat

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 06:08 PM

308s have saifty  mods that other conversons don't      just a reminder

very true forgot that. i just bought another safety and replace.


PSALM 27:1-2
The Lord is my light and my salvation whom shall I Fear?the Lord is the strength of my life, of whom shall I be afraid?
When the wicked ,even mine enemies and my foes,came upon me to eat up my flesh, they stumble and fell.

#15 Ak Monty

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 09:51 PM

you can convert legally in new york just use a featureless stock, take kydex and fill the hole of a thumb hole stock, .

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=O8ATsHBXG7w

 

its this easy just do it man really you have asked a bunch of time this is the ANSWER!



#16 AShotInTheDark

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 01:47 PM

you can convert legally in new york just use a featureless stock, take kydex and fill the hole of a thumb hole stock, .

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=O8ATsHBXG7w

 

its this easy just do it man really you have asked a bunch of time this is the ANSWER!

Monty

Thanks

The kydex grip is ambiguous as to whether legal or not in NY.

I am stuck in NY, and NY stuck it to me and other NY citizens.

Thus why I am still searching for answers...


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#17 Ak Monty

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 02:21 AM

I would think if it's permanent then why would it be illegal?

#18 AShotInTheDark

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 07:27 AM

I would think if it's permanent then why would it be illegal?

 

The problem is that the law was written so hastily, secretly, and ghastly, that there are many ambiguities, such as these, which are going to unfortunately probably fall upon being the burden of some people who are going to have to battle it out in the court system to find out what is truly 100% legal and not. Until things are proven 100% legal, I do even contemplate any of it.


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#19 Ronin38

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 08:53 AM

I really think the first thing you should do is take your S308 as it sits now and find a long enough target range and start practicing. Get some lessons from a good marksman if you can, and find out exactly what you and your rifle are capable of before throwing a bunch of parts at the gun.  :up:

 

If you do find your rifle isn't quite accurate enough, you will have the skills to properly evaluate whatever your next choice might be.  :)

 

Do you have any ranges that reach to 300+ yds. anywhere near you? Here in my area of SW OH, there aren't any ranges that long (that I have found yet...) Your best option is to make friends with farmers or someone who has that much land in an area where you can shoot.


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#20 AShotInTheDark

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 02:04 PM

I really think the first thing you should do is take your S308 as it sits now and find a long enough target range and start practicing. Get some lessons from a good marksman if you can, and find out exactly what you and your rifle are capable of before throwing a bunch of parts at the gun.  032.gif

 

If you do find your rifle isn't quite accurate enough, you will have the skills to properly evaluate whatever your next choice might be.  smile.png

 

Do you have any ranges that reach to 300+ yds. anywhere near you? Here in my area of SW OH, there aren't any ranges that long (that I have found yet...) Your best option is to make friends with farmers or someone who has that much land in an area where you can shoot.

Interestimg.

I was under impresssion that it was illegal to shoot a rifle on one's grounds, unlkess it was specially designated a "hunting grounds?"


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#21 Nick9130White

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 05:04 PM

I just shot my Saiga 308 200 yards (farthest range in the area) and I thought it shot great.
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#22 AShotInTheDark

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 04:00 AM

I just shot my Saiga 308 200 yards (farthest range in the area) and I thought it shot great.

I am really glad to hear that because I am going to probably keep the 308 now, install a better rail on it, a good long-range scope, and keep it for long-range purposes. Thank you


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#23 zagumennyyilya

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 07:37 PM

you can shoot on someones property as long as the land is outside of city limits, and he allows you to shoot there.  The saiga 308 is a good rifle, accuracy will depend of your ammo, if you dont wanna convert, dont convert,  start to shoot your rifle and get to know it.  after a while you will feel more comfortable with your rifle and learn to remove the trigger group and strip the rifle for maintenance and such.  after you are comfortable with the rifle and you learn how the trigger works, then you will be able to do the trigger mod yourself, not convert, but clean up the trigger to feel a little better. also with time you will learn what you like as a shooter,  a single stage trigger or 2 stage trigger, all of the different modes are possible to obtain on the saiga triggers, it just depends on what you do to it.  but i think you shouldnt rush into modding the rifle until you get to know it really well and you will know exactly what you want out of your trigger.



#24 AShotInTheDark

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 09:09 AM

you can shoot on someones property as long as the land is outside of city limits, and he allows you to shoot there.  The saiga 308 is a good rifle, accuracy will depend of your ammo, if you dont wanna convert, dont convert,  start to shoot your rifle and get to know it.  after a while you will feel more comfortable with your rifle and learn to remove the trigger group and strip the rifle for maintenance and such.  after you are comfortable with the rifle and you learn how the trigger works, then you will be able to do the trigger mod yourself, not convert, but clean up the trigger to feel a little better. also with time you will learn what you like as a shooter,  a single stage trigger or 2 stage trigger, all of the different modes are possible to obtain on the saiga triggers, it just depends on what you do to it.  but i think you shouldnt rush into modding the rifle until you get to know it really well and you will know exactly what you want out of your trigger.

Great advice

Thanks


I am keeping the 308 as a long range rifle after your kind input and thinking it over.

I am getting a picatinny rail that locks into dead zero.

Qurery is: recommendatiuons of an inexpensive but still decent accurate long range scope? (Especially one I may possibly be able to find used).

The input would be most appreciated.

Thank you


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#25 zagumennyyilya

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 02:28 PM

Dont get the flimsy cheap side mount scopes, there several side mount scope mount that are really good but the others flex and are flimsy,  the midway sidemount is great, the vepr side mount is good, and the kalinka bp-02 mount is good if you use lighter optics.  all others in my experience will flex and move around too much.  scopes, well try the redfield battle zone scope, sounds decent and the nikon scopes in the $100-200 range are good too.



#26 Jaba1017

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 08:32 PM

My S308 groups about 3MOA once the barrel is hot.Shooting cold it will make a tight group. Otherwise it groups like an AK.

#27 Beowulf47

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 08:41 AM

Check out this one: http://centerpoint.c...venture/CP395RG

I'm gonna order one for my S308 in a few weeks.

#28 AShotInTheDark

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 08:28 AM

Check out this one: http://centerpoint.c...venture/CP395RG

I'm gonna order one for my S308 in a few weeks.

Affordable and looks good. TY

 

Anyone else try this one?


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#29 AShotInTheDark

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 08:37 AM

My S308 groups about 3MOA once the barrel is hot.Shooting cold it will make a tight group. Otherwise it groups like an AK.

Not sure what you mean: Sort of accurate? Is that right?


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#30 AShotInTheDark

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 08:43 AM

How about this one?

Bit more $$$ but looks better quality long range which is my aim, (pun intended)

 

http://centerpoint.c.../power/CP312RGC


Edited by AShotInTheDark, 08 August 2013 - 08:46 AM.

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