Home FFLs Will No Longer Be Issued

[XD45 7,124]

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/06/foghorn/death-kitchen-counter-ffl-no-new-licenses-distributors-stop-shipping/

 

 

The latest from the ATF is that home-based FFLs will continue to be valid and may be renewed, but new ones will not be issued. Those wishing to obtain an FFL must actually be “in the business” of selling firearms — however the ATF chooses to define that phrase — with a proper storefront and everything.

 

 

So a few month back the batfuckers say that they are going to crack down on people buying and selling firearms "without a license" because they are in the "business" of selling firearms, and immediately follow that with a new "rule" that makes it impossible to get a license.  Anybody see a pattern here?  Perhaps an ulterior motive?

 

And then there's this: 

 

 

Things get worse, though. Word comes from Epic Tactical that RSR group will no longer be shipping firearms from their distribution center to home based FFLs.

 

 

So even if you have a Federal Firearms License RSR group will refuse to ship firearms to you if your business happens to be in your home.  Add them to the list of firearm businesses that will NEVER get another dime from me.

 

 

[G O B 3,516]

Obama - 'doing some things under the table'... Bastard deals cards from another deck, 'under the table'.

[patriot 7,197]

Remember, folks....face to face sales are legal in many states. No FFL required.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Simple, if someone really wants to be a "dealer" or "manufacturer" then they need to pony up and get a commercial location. Some FFLs who have commercial locations are expected by customers to compete with those who do not suffer the expenses of operating from a commercial location. I am sure this will be good news to those who are not riding the fence. I hate to see what I view as a reduction of freedom, but business is business. Some dude does transfers at his kitchen table and charges $10 where there are no direct expenses related to performing that transaction in that location while a real shop will likely not even pay the rent for that period of time by charging that amount. I'm just offering some perspective. Want to be in business? Start a business.

[XD45 7,124]

So whether or not you support freedom depends on who benefits from the infringement?

 

It always amazes me how many people claim to believe in freedom but will support the infringements of others.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

So whether or not you support freedom depends on who benefits from the infringement?

 

It always amazes me how many people claim to believe in freedom but will support the infringements of others.

Not at all. I see it as a very convenient direct assault on our freedom. I was simply offering some perspective on the matter. Overall, what happens if dealers in commercial locations cannot afford to compete with kitchen table guys? They go out of business and it is a more significant loss as a whole. Most people do not have a friend who is a home FFL and they rely on real brick and mortar businesses for their purchases and transfers. More perspective.

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

Simple, if someone really wants to be a "dealer" or "manufacturer" then they need to pony up and get a commercial location. Some FFLs who have commercial locations are expected by customers to compete with those who do not suffer the expenses of operating from a commercial location. I am sure this will be good news to those who are not riding the fence. I hate to see what I view as a reduction of freedom, but business is business. Some dude does transfers at his kitchen table and charges $10 where there are no direct expenses related to performing that transaction in that location while a real shop will likely not even pay the rent for that period of time by charging that amount. I'm just offering some perspective. Want to be in business? Start a business.

Or an example of big government regulation preventing smaller businesses from existing. If a man wants to legally obtain an FFL and run a home business who cares if his expenses are lower than his competitors?  Big stores should offer what the the kitchen table FFL cannot, not cheer the government for stepping in and squash their competitions. 

Just a different perspective. 

[jerry52 893]

I wonder if the the big gun stores have something to do with this?

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

No telling, they could. I have seen more focused examples in the industry of where distributors have made moves that really screw the small shops. It already can be very hard for small shops to get rolling and stable. It takes a lot of initial investment or a lot of work to build it up. There is a gap between the kitchen table guys and the big boys that can be very hard to survive or grow in.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

Corporatism at it's finest. 

[DLT 1,646]

I'm a home based FFL. I've got my sales tax permit and all the appropriate signs up in my shop. I deal mainly (99%) in transfers because the bigger guys refuse to do so. So I guess you can say I specialize. I'm not getting rich doing what I do, but my customers greatly appreciate the service I provide.

[gunfun 3,931]

I wonder if the the big gun stores have something to do with this?

Like the big companies signing off on the AWB and various hard and soft bans on foreign imports.... Or even the NRA only spending resources on their pet states. Big entities like to work together. Small fry are a hassle for them. It's easier for 'everyone who counts' to do large blanket deals.

[csspecs 1,987]

What is interesting is that they imply you need an FFL if you sell more than one firearm.. Yet won't issue the licence they will arrest you for not getting.

 

To me this is entrapment. Either you are eligible for the license or you do not need one.

 

If the ATF has deemed that not having a storefront means you are not 'in the business'.

How can they arrest someone for buying and reselling at gunshows for being 'in the business' when they would not issue the license because they were not 'in the business'??

Which is it?

[David Mark 2,452]

What is interesting is that they imply you need an FFL if you sell more than one firearm.. Yet won't issue the licence they will arrest you for not getting.

 

To me this is entrapment. Either you are eligible for the license or you do not need one.

 

If the ATF has deemed that not having a storefront means you are not 'in the business'.

How can they arrest someone for buying and reselling at gunshows for being 'in the business' when they would not issue the license because they were not 'in the business'??

Which is it?

 

Ever read the book "Catch22"?

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

 

What is interesting is that they imply you need an FFL if you sell more than one firearm.. Yet won't issue the licence they will arrest you for not getting.

 

To me this is entrapment. Either you are eligible for the license or you do not need one.

 

If the ATF has deemed that not having a storefront means you are not 'in the business'.

How can they arrest someone for buying and reselling at gunshows for being 'in the business' when they would not issue the license because they were not 'in the business'??

Which is it?

 

Ever read the book "Catch22"?

 

 

You mean the U.S. Government Operations and Field Manual? 

Yes, pretty good read if aggravating

[montec 164]

I believe in the free market.  I run a couple businesses from my home.  I dont have a giant customer base to support a commercial location.  I am not in the firearms business but I am in Home A/V, 12volt, and auto repair/customization.  I was required to get a trade name in my state, but no licensing is needed beyond that.  Saying I would need a commercial location, is asking me to take on a huge debt load that I refuse to do to compete with the big boys that will be closed up in a year or 2 at the most in my area.  They come and go quite regularly, and I have my regulars and its been fine to add just a little extra income for now, allows me to have some great family time with my child.

[saltydecimator 482]

When they out law guns, I'm gonna be a gun running outlaw! Hahah. I mean I feel there are 2 perspectives to have:

 

1- gov is inept and totally retarded, with no idea of their actions and consequences or,

 

2- gov is cold and calculating and as evil as we assume

[Mullet Man 2,114]

When they out law guns, I'm gonna be a gun running outlaw! Hahah. I mean I feel there are 2 perspectives to have:

 

1- gov is inept and totally retarded, with no idea of their actions and consequences or,

 

2- gov is cold and calculating and as evil as we assume

I'll take door number two Alex. There's a reason the rich and powerful stay rich and powerful. They think long term and will see the end goals met through generations if need be.

[netpackrat 566]

Have you got some source that ATF is actually going to do this besides the Douche About Guns?

[HB of CJ 1,263]

Generations?  How about Centuries?  Or possibly Millenniums?  That is how dynasty families who have been millionaires then billionaires for 1000 years think, plan and operate.  How do you think they have kept and expanded their wealth ... and power?  Even through major shit.  They think big and very long term.  So do governments?  Or do the dynasty families direct and command the governments?

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

Have you got some source that ATF is actually going to do this besides the Douche About Guns?

When you apply for an ffl the following statements are on the aft form:

 

If you are apply to increase a personal collection, DO NOT SUBMIT

 

If you are applying with intent to work from your home ,DO NOT SUBMIT

 

I think that qualifies.

[menace667 194]

This seems to harm smiths and such even worse, as most gunsmiths work from a shop at home as opposed to a storefront that serves no real purpose other than to make Uncle Sam happy. Kinda like a firearm painter having a storefront, since it isn't like you can display your products long term.

[netpackrat 566]

 

Have you got some source that ATF is actually going to do this besides the Douche About Guns?

When you apply for an ffl the following statements are on the aft form:

 

If you are apply to increase a personal collection, DO NOT SUBMIT

 

If you are applying with intent to work from your home ,DO NOT SUBMIT

 

I think that qualifies.

 

 

False.  Your first statement actually appears on the application as "Do You Intend to Use Your License Only to Acquire Personal Firearms?"  The key there is the word only...  You can use your own FFL to increase your personal collection, so long as you are operating as an FFL with intent to make a profit.  Buying, selling, gunsmithing, etc.  And that's not even what is being discussed here anyway.  The assertion was made that ATF won't be allowing any more home based FFLs at all, which has nothing to do with somebody applying for a license ONLY to buy guns for their personal collection.

 

Your second statement does not appear anywhere in the application or the instructions, that I can find.  You can look for yourself if you wish:

 

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/form/form-7-application-federal-firearms-license-atf-form-531012/download

 

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/instructions-form-7-application-federal-firearms-license

 

I will note that the forms haven't changed since 2005.

 

I'm not saying that the ATF wouldn't like to get rid of all home based FFL businesses, or even that they aren't planning such a move.  I don't know.  But until somebody comes up with some sort of verifiable source that this is going to happen, it is just more tinfoil hat bullshit.  The Douche About Guns is not a reliable source for much of anything.  And I looked at what he was using as a source for his claims, and even that company seemed to have backpedaled on their claim.

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

 

 

Have you got some source that ATF is actually going to do this besides the Douche About Guns?

When you apply for an ffl the following statements are on the aft form:

 

If you are apply to increase a personal collection, DO NOT SUBMIT

 

If you are applying with intent to work from your home ,DO NOT SUBMIT

 

I think that qualifies.

 

 

False.  Your first statement actually appears on the application as "Do You Intend to Use Your License Only to Acquire Personal Firearms?"  The key there is the word only...  You can use your own FFL to increase your personal collection, so long as you are operating as an FFL with intent to make a profit.  Buying, selling, gunsmithing, etc.  And that's not even what is being discussed here anyway.  The assertion was made that ATF won't be allowing any more home based FFLs at all, which has nothing to do with somebody applying for a license ONLY to buy guns for their personal collection.

 

Your second statement does not appear anywhere in the application or the instructions, that I can find.  You can look for yourself if you wish:

 

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/form/form-7-application-federal-firearms-license-atf-form-531012/download

 

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/instructions-form-7-application-federal-firearms-license

 

I will note that the forms haven't changed since 2005.

 

I'm not saying that the ATF wouldn't like to get rid of all home based FFL businesses, or even that they aren't planning such a move.  I don't know.  But until somebody comes up with some sort of verifiable source that this is going to happen, it is just more tinfoil hat bullshit.  The Douche About Guns is not a reliable source for much of anything.  And I looked at what he was using as a source for his claims, and even that company seemed to have backpedaled on their claim.

 

You're correct. It's been a while since I looked at it. I recall thinking about the  "Only at guns shows"  seems to really limit a lot of people whom can obtain an FFL .. 

I wouldn't call it "tinfoil hat' shit.. It's just the convoluted dubious nature of the ATF and gun laws, that confuse and lead to conflicting information. 

[netpackrat 566]

I guess what I am saying is we can't just accept a story like this at face value, without demanding proof.  We have enough problems right now as it is to be wasting energy on something that can't be verified.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Sometimes zoning can be a hurdle too if the ATF in the area communicates with the building department. Some counties will not approve a home location for an 07FFL. Other counties might give you a hard time about trying to get an 07FFL in a "light commercial" location. In their mind, a "manufacturing license" means you are firing up to be the next FN. That's when you load up all of your tools and take them to the building department and let them have a look at the start of your "manufacturing operation".

[storm6490 2,768]

This time next year this will be resolved in our favor or Hitlary will be in the oval office and we will be too busy at war with the rest of the world to give a shit.