Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 To whom it may concern, WE, the staff at saiga-12.com have endured a lot of hardships and had to deal with a lot of problems since the drums were first introduced for the Saiga 12. At first, they were taboo to even discuss here. Then after Mike Davidson talked to the owner of the site and convinced him that they were going to be made, whether we let people discuss them or not, it was decided to allow discussion of the topic. Mike, being the enterprising and very determined man he is, went straight to work and sacrificed a lot to make them a reality. After much other trouble that was caused by Alliance and the wraithmaker clan, that nearly tore this forum apart and almost saw it shut down altogether, due to uncontrollable trolling and backbiting / infighting that went on here, the first run of the drums were finally made and 15 Beta samples sent out to trusted, respected members here to test and evaluate. They were checked out thoroughly and found to be very high quality and almost perfect. There were a few problems encountered and those had to be addressed before the final run could be made. Among those problems were the fact that the scoop angle was wrong (too steep) and made it hard to load. Also the center post was sticking out a hair too far and made it hard to put the clip on, that retains the cover plate. The Locking lugs needed a slight adjustment to make the drum sit farther forward, to enable it to lock in better to all S-12s and feed better. The body was thickened and stronger support ribs were made. That's about all I can think of right now. I have one of these beta drums and it works perfectly as is. My only complaint is the hard loading and that it won't lock into one of my Shotguns as is. I could fix that but choose to leave it as is, until I get a new one from the final run. The hard loading I could fix too, but it's not that bad and I don't want to change it right yet. These new fixes required the molds to be adjusted...or more like re made. A new one was ready and tested before Mike charged the second half of people's payment. He was ready to shoot the molds and soon to be shipping. The plant had an open window for him at that time. So as far as he honestly knew, things were right on schedule, taking into account the delay for upgrades. So he didn't go back on is word and charge anyone prematurely...at least not on purpose. Then something bad happened. According to what he told me, it was user error at the plant. Someone who didn't know what they were doing apparently closed the mold too soon during use, and it got "broken". The last time I spoke with Mike, the new parts were made and things were back on schedule. He was to have a meeting the next day with the man from the plant about scheduling shooting the molds. That was over a month ago. Mike sent an email out to his customers saying it would be late June or early July when the drums started shipping. Tony from Tromix got Mike to call him back (after a few weeks apparently) and Mike told him things were moving forward. He did not promise an exact date because that is beyond his control. The plant that is doing the drums is the same one that makes parts for the Government, Military, NASA, GE, Boeing, etc.... Mike's drums are just a small fish to them in a big sea of more important clients and contracts. At least Mike chose to have the work done by the BEST IN THE BUSINESS! He told Tony things were moving forward and THAT MEANS THEY ARE, and there is no further information available at this time. Please refrain from posting ANY more questions on this website about WHEN they will be shipping. Mike himself does not know the answer to that question, which is why he is not coming here to say anything at all. We will allow no more posting about whether or not you think it's right to have to wait. You ARE going to wait and that is all there is to it. Mike has offered to refund anyone's money who doesn't want to wait - You are welcome to take him up on his offer if you feel you need to. Everyone else, I suggest keeping an eye on his website for more drums to appear available, due to cancellations. If you want to know something about the drums, there are a LOT of topics on the site where they are discussed in every detail. Unfortunately, due to some very impatient people here (who BTW are going to start receiving warnings today for continuing to rock the boat while criticizing the staff here for trying to keep things under control so the rest of the members could find the information they need without having to wade through pages and pages of childish whining) it has become very difficult to find pertinent information with all the excess drama here. It makes our jobs as mods extremely difficult and we are not putting up with it any more. We are volunteers here and don't get payed to babysit, in fact we don't get paid at all. We apologize to the rest of you, patient members, for all that, and are taking steps right now to eliminate it, TODAY. I am pinning this topic at the top of Mike's section, and it will be left open for 24 hrs. At 11:30 AM tomorrow, it will be closed and no more discussion will be had here about anything that has to do with shipping times, whether Mike is right or wrong, unprofessional or not, or anything else negative, until MIKE DAVIDSON chooses to re-open his section to posting, and makes some sort of announcement. (That is IF the decision is made by the owner of the site whether we should close Mike's section to posting...your opinion on that is welcome in this thread). Anyone who tries to bypass this by starting topics about it in the main forum, will be warned and their threads deleted. This is NOT censorship, it's called damage control. All this negative talk about Mike and his drums is damaging to Mike and this community. This forum was here long before Mike and his drums, and it will be here long after everyone has one of their own. It's long past due for this bickering to stop and I'm putting a stop to it now. There are plenty of other things to talk about with these fine weapons. Lets get back to doing that and let things happen on their own with the drums. Whatever happens will happen. NOBODY is going to change it by complaining. Thank You COBRA OUT Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 Actually, Mike returned my call about 2 days later....... Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted July 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 Thanks Tony. We appreciate all your input here. I was mistaken and thought you told me a few weeks....when you actually said a few days. That was me who waited a few weeks and nothing... Link to post Share on other sites
Dannzo 0 Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 Shannon / Tony, Thanks for all of your patience and input since August 15th. Dan Martino Link to post Share on other sites
Twinsen 86 Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 So uh, when are the dru... just kidding. I was noticing that half the threads in the new posts search were coming up about when the drums are going to be released. It's gonna be so much cleaner now. Link to post Share on other sites
jmacken37 4 Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 Shannon and Tony, Thank you for the update. Mike, I'm sure you're busy, but I think a post from you would go a long way to calm the uneasyness some feel about the whole drum issue. Jake Link to post Share on other sites
righttoown 0 Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 Thanks for the information and glad to know you will be closing this post. Link to post Share on other sites
Monk 0 Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 NEW INFORMATION ON THE DRUMS! He told Tony things were moving forward and THAT MEANS THEY ARE, and there is no further information available at this time. You cocktease. Link to post Share on other sites
jrance@iacwds.com 716 Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 An executive decision had to be made and you are to be commended on your thorough and professional approach Cobra. My preference would be to see the MD Arms section put in lock down until Mike is ready to update us on progress. Moderators that have any pertinent info could post it here as well. A look but don't touch approach is he only option I see at this point. I would be sure that the "Warning" that folks receive for pushing the issue in new threads around the forum are the fat lady warnings...i.e. 4 or so and you're gone. Thanks for all you and Juggs and the other mods do and continue to do to make this the best Forum it can be. 1911 Link to post Share on other sites
waltham_41 52 Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 Thanks Cobra. I think your decision is a wise choice, and will hopefully stop all of the bickering and speculation that is getting out of hand. Spank them hard if they cant follow your simple instructions Thanks Tony for the latest update. Mike I know you are probably going nuts about this time with all of the unavoidable delays and people bitching, but I also think that a once a month post update, good or bad, would be nice and good for the morale of the people that are silently waiting. Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 I think that a closed and stickied post with the latest information is a good idea! It keeps people from having to sieve through a half dozen "Drum" threads for the latest and hopefully correct info. Frankly, I do not know how much of this is old news, most of it is new to me. Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 Are we there yet???? Link to post Share on other sites
mavrick16o 6 Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it will be great to only stop by here when actual info comes to light and no more of the BS!! Link to post Share on other sites
joelrod47 373 Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 Thank you.......................!! Link to post Share on other sites
bigj480 203 Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 (edited) A GREAT and inevitable move, IMHO. This one little corner of the forum has been far too taxing on the mods and I think it's affecting the forum as a whole. That said, I understand the concern and frustration, I got in at the beginning, but nothing is gained by flooding this section with the same questions and comments over and over again. Just think, for every post in this section Mike has probably received 10+ emails! Our frustration should be with the people manufacturing the parts or ourselves for buying a product that we knew was not finished yet. If mike posted he could only tell you what you already know, that we are waiting on the parts and you are welcome to opt-out. Edited July 11, 2008 by bigj480 Link to post Share on other sites
Paladin 37 Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 Thanks Cobra, hopefully this will take some pressure off you and Juggs. Link to post Share on other sites
mscottrogers 56 Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 (edited) You Guys ROCK. Thanks for all your effort and patience since you had to deal with stuff beyond your control. Thanks for cleaning up all the extra threads too! Mike, thank you for putting up with the whiners and thanks for making a bomber military grade mag. I still think you should get a patent, ship a tromix gun and mag to the pentagon, have them give you guys a MILSPEC number and sell a million of them to the GOV. thanks again. Can you guys let people post if new mags show up on Mikes website. I usually check here before going any where else. EDIT TO ADD Oh Yeah, Will, your chick is HOT!!!! Edited July 11, 2008 by utahhandyman Link to post Share on other sites
nicklebon 27 Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 Kick ass Cobra! Now can you get Mike to actually bill me so I know for certain that when they ship the big brown will be coming my way? /duck Link to post Share on other sites
jrance@iacwds.com 716 Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 Are we there yet???? Nope! We passed it and have to turn around. Go back to sleep. Link to post Share on other sites
lynnkcircle 0 Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 One book I read a long, long time ago had this line, "Beginnings are always the hardest thing." That is as much true of any business startup as in personal life. Sure, things go wrong. But you cannot go through life distrusting everyone for that reason. I don't know Mike Davidson; I have never met him. However, I think it is possible to judge people by what they post and with whom they post it. For those reasons, I have no doubt that sometime before the end of this year UPS or whomever is going to be dropping one of Mike's drums at my doorstep. All good things are worth waiting for. When TWAWKI goes bust, having a 20-round drum on my Saiga should be enough to keep the Zombies from my door. (or in my case, a 19-round, since I have a completely original no bolt-hold-open original Saiga-12). And if TWAWKI never goes bust, I think a semi-auto shotgun with a large drum will be one of the best things I'll be leaving my grandchildren..... Link to post Share on other sites
beersbikesguns 0 Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 Then something bad happened. According to what he told me, it was user error at the plant. Someone who didn't know what they were doing apparently closed the mold too soon during use, and it got "broken". The last time I spoke with Mike, the new parts were made and things were back on schedule. He was to have a meeting the next day with the man from the plant about scheduling shooting the molds. That was over a month ago. Great idea to post a sticky! I also agree that it cleans things up IMMENSELY. I have one question tho: if the shop fucked up the mould way back when, shouldn't THEY inject Mike's stuff ASAP, especially since it was THEIR fault??? Am I the only one miffed that the mold shop makes a mistake and THEN has the balls to make Mike wait even longer? Sigh. Back to patiently and silently waiting. Link to post Share on other sites
ClickClickD'oh 1 Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 I'd just wanted to tell you good luck. We're all counting on you. Link to post Share on other sites
Hunter78 1 Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 Thanks for the info. I think that posting what happened and why they are late is helpful. I guess I think just lock the section and post when you have any usefull info, just keep us informed so we know some progress is being made. The waiting is not nearly as annoying as all the back and forth bullshit when you're just looking for email. Link to post Share on other sites
osprey21 5 Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 Thank you all. Link to post Share on other sites
reoiv 1 Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 Thank you Cobra Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted July 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 Y'all are welcome. Mike didn't want to have to answer a million more questions about who's fault it is and why and when it would be now, and yadayada so he didn't say anything at all. The fine details are not important. Last I talked to him he was going to post that info and give an update a couple of days later. I guess he changed his mind. Well there ya go. That's all that is known on my end and some of it could possibly be inaccurate, it was a while ago when he told me that. I expected him to come in, and fill everyone in with what was happening so I didn't take careful notes. Basically he asked me to tell everyone that things were moving ahead with a slight delay and that was all I was supposed to say. Maybe after I talk to him again he will actually post something....til then I'm closing this thread and nobody needs to start any new ones in his section. Unless he's here to monitor it, it's no use. Just have confidence that he is trying his best to get these things done because he wants it more than you guys. They WILL get done and they WILL ship. When it happens is not within his control. Link to post Share on other sites
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