[swany]

I was at the range yesterday, trying out my new surefire mags. They handled 2 3/4" buckshot and slugs fine. I loaded up full with remington 3" magnum OO buckshot. Third shot on the first mag, and the mag flew off the gun....top of the magazine broke off...specifically the front section. Loaded up another new mag and the first shot did the same thing. The combo of the weight of the mag and recoil is what's getting to it. The plastic is much weaker than the composites used in the factory/agp/mike d's drum mags. Yes, it's slicker, but much weeker....My gun was set on setting 1. It's a 2 holed gun...which barely cycles 2 3/4" inch on setting 1.......it may be able to handle 2 3/4" all day but with AGP's available again, and much stronger......I know there is a lifetime warrantee but I'd rather just have my money back....
swany

[saiga12fan]

...

[Couchlock]

lmao where's that dude talkin bout his "ultra reliable clips" now?!

[BVamp]

is there any other relevant information you can provide, such as temperature at the time of breakage, was it a 12 or 15 pellet load, precisely which make and model of shell, what year is your gun, any mods to it, such as bottom of bolt carrier, or locking lugs etc etc?

[swany]

Bvamp, on Jan 14 2009, 10:14 AM, said:

is there any other relevant information you can provide, such as temperature at the time of breakage, was it a 12 or 15 pellet load, precisely which make and model of shell, what year is your gun, any mods to it, such as bottom of bolt carrier, or locking lugs etc etc?

It was an indoor range....mags room temp....Remington Express magnum 3" 15 pellet load. My gun is new and has the serial numbers that suggest "vodka specials" but I have come to like the more restrictive gas system because I want to shoot only 2 3/4" buckshot and more. My saiga has been converted and has a collapsible stock if that matters. I had to take a little off the rear of the mags to get them to lock in....most will have to..they fit nice and tight.

The mag is just too long and heavy for the recoil.....shortened, it may hold up.

[TR Young]

Couchlock, on Jan 14 2009, 10:09 AM, said:

lmao where's that dude talkin bout his "ultra reliable clips" now?!

Uh-oh..... waiting...... waiting.....

[AlphaDogo]

TR< that is exactly what I was thinking when I read that lol.

[DogMan]

TR Young, on Jan 14 2009, 07:31 AM, said:

Couchlock, on Jan 14 2009, 10:09 AM, said:

lmao where's that dude talkin bout his "ultra reliable clips" now?!

Uh-oh..... waiting...... waiting.....

tick....tick....tick....tick

This post has been edited by DogMan: 14 January 2009 - 10:54 AM

[AlphaDogo]

DogMan, on Jan 14 2009, 11:50 AM, said:

TR Young, on Jan 14 2009, 07:31 AM, said:

Couchlock, on Jan 14 2009, 10:09 AM, said:

lmao where's that dude talkin bout his "ultra reliable clips" now?!

Uh-oh..... waiting...... waiting.....

tick....tick....tick....tick

Wait for it....... Wait for it.

[CarolinaSS]

That's not good. I shot several full mags of the Remington 2 3/4" 00 Express Buckshot with no problems. I did not have any 3" Buckshot to try this time, I only had some 3" #4 which worked great. I do not think Cobra shot any in his test either. I will see them at the Shot Show tomorrow and relay this. You should contact them ASAP with all your info. They will stand behind their product, no worries.

I do not believe it is a weaker composite. From what I have been told, The AGP, Md-20 drum and SureFire use a similar blended polymer. Mike's drum is an outstanding product, I don't think you can use the 3" magnum shells in it. I have had several customers tell me that they have broken off the front lip of their AGP's when they were shooting 3" magnum Buckshot. It is very punishing round. My shoulder hurts for days after shooting those. A little overkill for Home Defense.

Greg

[bigdick]

CarolinaSS, on Jan 14 2009, 12:35 PM, said:

That's not good. I shot several full mags of the Remington 2 3/4" 00 Express Buckshot with no problems. I did not have any 3" Buckshot to try, I only had some 3" #4 which worked great. I do not think Cobra shot any in his test either. I will see them at the Shot Show tomorrow and relay this. You should contact them ASAP with all your info. They will stand behind their product, no worries. I will try the 3" Buckshot next week when I get a chance.
Greg

i shot rem 3inch # 4 5 boxes out of 3 different mags with out a hitch plus 5 boxes universal and 5 boxes of federal , only problem i had was universal will not feed consistantly from a eaa 2000 gun

[stiletto raggio]

Mike's drum won't feed 3" shells because they (and longer, roll-crimped 2-3/4" shells) won't fit. That is very different than having a catastrophic magazine failure due to recoil.

[Delta 5.56]

BOOM!

[TR Young]

Delta 5.56, on Jan 14 2009, 01:10 PM, said:

BOOM!

What's REALLY funny to me is that most of the people concerned with the differences between 'clip' and 'magazine' have NO FREAKIN' GRASP of English grammar...

TO, TOO, and TWO are 3 completely different words with different meanings, as are THEIR, THERE, and THEY'RE... And don't even get me started on their use of the apostrophe to show plurality instead of ownership... I mean, THESE simple things were taught to us in Grammar School for heaven's sake.



Back on subject.... has anyone else shot their SureFire 12 rounders with 3" magnums and had any failures? I haven't yet tried, but that is very concerning to me. I'll have to hit the range this weekend with a couple loaded up.

[1911]

TR Young, on Jan 14 2009, 02:04 PM, said:

Delta 5.56, on Jan 14 2009, 01:10 PM, said:

BOOM!

What's REALLY funny to me is that most of the people concerned with the differences between 'clip' and 'magazine' have NO FREAKIN' GRASP of English grammar...

TO, TOO, and TWO are 3 completely different words with different meanings, as are THEIR, THERE, and THEY'RE... And don't even get me started on their use of the apostrophe to show plurality instead of ownership... I mean, THESE simple things were taught to us in Grammar School for heaven's sake.



Back on subject.... has anyone else shot their SureFire 12 rounders with 3" magnums and had any failures? I haven't yet tried, but that is very concerning to me. I'll have to hit the range this weekend with a couple loaded up.

I am glad you used the caveat "most".

1911

[SaigaNoobie]

Can we get pictures of these failures?

Thanks~

[Delta 5.56]

TR Young, on Jan 14 2009, 03:04 PM, said:

Delta 5.56, on Jan 14 2009, 01:10 PM, said:

BOOM!

What's REALLY funny to me is that most of the people concerned with the differences between 'clip' and 'magazine' have NO FREAKIN' GRASP of English grammar...

TO, TOO, and TWO are 3 completely different words with different meanings, as are THEIR, THERE, and THEY'RE... And don't even get me started on their use of the apostrophe to show plurality instead of ownership... I mean, THESE simple things were taught to us in Grammar School for heaven's sake.



Back on subject.... has anyone else shot their SureFire 12 rounders with 3" magnums and had any failures? I haven't yet tried, but that is very concerning to me. I'll have to hit the range this weekend with a couple loaded up.

Dont look at me. I didnt make it. Just cut and paste. But, they were making fun of that also on the forum I took it from. Grammar nazis.

This post has been edited by Delta 5.56: 14 January 2009 - 05:41 PM

[AmericanKenpo]

swany, on Jan 14 2009, 09:51 AM, said:

I was at the range yesterday, trying out my new surefire mags. They handled 2 3/4" buckshot and slugs fine. I loaded up full with remington 3" magnum OO buckshot. Third shot on the first mag, and the mag flew off the gun....top of the magazine broke off...specifically the front section. Loaded up another new mag and the first shot did the same thing. The combo of the weight of the mag and recoil is what's getting to it. The plastic is much weaker than the composites used in the factory/agp/mike d's drum mags. Yes, it's slicker, but much weeker....My gun was set on setting 1. It's a 2 holed gun...which barely cycles 2 3/4" inch on setting 1.......it may be able to handle 2 3/4" all day but with AGP's available again, and much stronger......I know there is a lifetime warrantee but I'd rather just have my money back....
swany

I had the same thing happen with the AGP mags,BUT!!! It was not AGP's fault. It shot 2 3/4 fine but flew off the gun with 3' magnums. The problem was in the mag catch lever,it didnt fully seat up on the mag. I had to take it off and file down the the rear two "legs". Its worked great ever since with the 3 inchers. Look at the mag when installed in the gun and see if the catch is fully seated forward onto the mag. Bet that is your problem, not the magazine.

[macdonald]

ahh crap....and I bought 2 of these things, thinking that I only had a few days/weeks to buy "hi-cap" mags.

I usually NEVER buy stuff when everyone else is trying to get it, but this Obama character has already cost me 1/2 of my retirement (the stock market sold off because Obama plans to raise capital gains taxes) , and made me pay through the nose for everything gun-related since his election.

And he hasn't even taken OFFICE yet!

[WHITE 3 GOLF]

Quote

I do not believe it is a weaker composite. From what I have been told, The AGP, Md-20 drum and SureFire use a similar blended polymer. Mike's drum is an outstanding product, I don't think you can use the 3" magnum shells in it. I have had several customers tell me that they have broken off the front lip of their AGP's when they were shooting 3" magnum Buckshot. It is very punishing round. My shoulder hurts for days after shooting those. A little overkill for Home Defense.

Greg

Greg I haven't fired the new Surefire mags but I have fired several AGP mags with 3 in. Remington Express Magnum 15 pel-00bk with no problem. I guess I'm lucky. Some more info or testing with this ammo should be done from Surefire to see if it is a flook or the mag. Just my 2 cents.

[Mike Davidson]

I saw this coming a mile away! This is what I was concerned about. I would have to recommend that Surefire go back and mod their molds so a steel insert can be added to the front mag catch. Like I was saying... Izhmash didn't put them in there for nothing. They even have them in the 5 rd mags. We have seen this some with AGP's. Yes, most AGP's have been fine. But plenty have broke as well. A plastic material can be affected by many different things. A lot can be in the processing (actual injection). You can send the same material, from the same batch, to 2 different injection companies and the plastic may not have the same properties once injected by differnt people and different machines. The solution is simple.

NEEDS steel in the front mag catch!

The front mag catch takes the most of the hit. The added weight is a big multiplier. And the added length is a big multiplier.

Look at it like this. Who do you think could jack up a car the fastest and easiest? A 150 lbs guy with a 2 foot jack handle ( AGP) or a 195 lbs guy with a 2 1/2 foot jack handle (SGM). This is very comparable in numbers.

My bet is we will see more of the 13rd mags breaking than we ever did the AGP's. But the solution for both mags is very simple if they ever want to address it..... STEEL! Yeah it cost more, but not that much more! And if your about putting out a quality product that is exactly what it needs, even if most won't have the problem. With steel NONE will have the problem.

[THE_HUNTER]

If this is true to the case I may be chopping my 1 clip I ordered to a 2 rounder, thereby avoiding the problem and getting my wanted 2 rounder. hmmmm

[Ballistician]

I broke one of the AGPs in the front just last November shooting 3" and another AGP's follower was going all the way up to the feed lip. Both replaced, no problem.

I will have to put a couple boxes of 3" in my surefires when they come. Just to see.

[DogMan]

Wasn't somebody working on a magwell mod for the S12? Would this help relieve some of the stresses on these mags?

[lipadj46]

Quote

(the stock market sold off because Obama plans to raise capital gains taxes)

Ha that's funny, carry on...

[SilentArmy]

I HAD TO REMOVE 1/16" of material from rear of mag to even get it to lock in place. I guess I need to get out and try it now!

[SaigaNoobie]

Still no pics?

[swany]

SaigaNoobie, on Jan 15 2009, 12:15 AM, said:

Still no pics?

Both mags look similar.....

Attached File(s)

•  brokenmag.jpg (182.21K)
  Number of downloads: 85

[dragonwolf]

Mod the gun not the mag I have an 08 not even the factory mag would fit modded gun to accept MD 20 drums now every mag drum fits perfectly. Dinzags 00 from the factory fit everything moded the 08 to the 00 specs no problems yet. Too cold in MI to go out and play. I have 15 rounds of 3" slugs break in the gun and mag in w/ thoes when it warms up. -15 wind chill going down to -30 wind chill. Flippin cold!!!!!

[SaigaNoobie]

swany, on Jan 15 2009, 05:49 AM, said:

SaigaNoobie, on Jan 15 2009, 12:15 AM, said:

Still no pics?

Both mags look similar.....

Thanks Swany, But I thought you said that the top of the mag broke off? I'd like to see a pic of the break.....


EDIT* OH SHIT! I didn't notice at first but the front lug is gone right? Damn that sucks.

This post has been edited by SaigaNoobie: 15 January 2009 - 08:32 AM