skiboatsp 111 Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 Does anyone have one in the atlanta area? Link to post Share on other sites
headshot 52 Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 "wrathmaker"??!!! LOL. The wraithmaker sure piqued the ire of many on this forum! Link to post Share on other sites
Franky 2 Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 WRAITHFAKERS Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 yeah... theres one for sale on gunbroker right now... OOPS.... sorry ... it ended... http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=97133461 And no one even bought it... it was a steal at $489.00!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
skiboatsp 111 Posted April 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 (edited) Yes Yes have your fun If someone would be interested in getting theirs to run correctly PM me Edited April 12, 2008 by skiboatsp Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 I am not trying to be a prick about it... but I wouldnt count on too many folks taking you up on that. I am sure they thought they made a good product, it just never seemed to live up to that.... Link to post Share on other sites
skiboatsp 111 Posted April 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 (edited) I am not trying to be a prick about it... but I wouldnt count on too many folks taking you up on that. I am sure they thought they made a good product, it just never seemed to live up to that.... And many people will sell thier wrathmaker door stops using the same deceptive practices alliance is using by not telling the next guy it has problems Edited April 13, 2008 by skiboatsp Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 Yes Yes have your fun If someone would be interested in getting theirs to run correctly PM me I'd rather buy a drum I KNOW is going to work! Link to post Share on other sites
skiboatsp 111 Posted April 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 Yes Yes have your fun If someone would be interested in getting theirs to run correctly PM me I'd rather buy a drum I KNOW is going to work! And your point IS? I was just thinking I could help people who have a door stop of a drum get it working. I don't need or want any grief!! Link to post Share on other sites
Ruffian72 548 Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 Believe the member is just trying to help unlucky souls who purchased. Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 If WM offers a reliability service, I don't see any reason a privateer shouldn't make a buck offering the same kind of thing. We have entire careers made up to fix the mistakes of others... like asbestos removal! Perhaps some WM owners do NOT want to deal with Alliance(allied...whatever) again. Best of luck Skiboat! Link to post Share on other sites
skiboatsp 111 Posted April 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 Believe the member is just trying to help unlucky souls who purchased. Thank You Ruffian72 I guess I didn't make myself clear My fault Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 Really... I thought you were looking to buy one for yourself... I was trying to save you the hassles/headaches we have seen from them... Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 Definitely did NOT make yourself clear. In that vein that is a great idea. WM makes a great drum! Once you have someone modify it to work. Juggs is correct, tis a simpler and cheaper solution to trying to sell a non-functioning drum that no one wants. Link to post Share on other sites
S-12inWV 1 Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 I know I may get dogged on here, But I purchased a WM as soon as I could get on the list.... Also, I won't lie, I did have some problems with it in my TROMIX converted gun initially...... SOOOOO, I did opt for the WM work-over for the following reasons: 1. I had a Early gun (EAA) that only had 3 ports and wasn't corrected at TROMIX.... It ran rather fine but use to be picky on low brass. 2. I wanted a Drum that was as reliable as my S-12 3. I was having issues with most of my AGPs and figured WM work-over would help. Results: The weapon now runs without a hiccup with the WM Drum and ALL my AGPs, I now have 4 gas ports and any low brass now runs 100%, and the action is as smooth as one could hope for. I was satisfied. I have no affiliation with them, but will be one of the few that says I am happy with their product and service. Also, I have a MD-20 on the way and as soon as I get the shells stocked up and have the time, I will be conducting an extensive test on both of my TROMIX converted S-12s...and the 2 drums.... Another thing, I haven't used my WM drum in my (newsest) RAA S-12 so I can't speak about the relaibility of the WM in one that doesn't have the WM work-over.... I'll keep yall posted though. Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted April 19, 2008 Report Share Posted April 19, 2008 They have a 1/4 page color ad in the April 20 SGN. No mention of "wraithmaker" anywhere in the ad! They are going by Alliance Armament. And "The Alliance Armament 20 rd drum." With $180 "reliability service", ot top of $319 for the mag, and $24 for the dust cover. Thats $523 to get 1 drum that works in you'r gun!! Link to post Share on other sites
gunmonk 0 Posted April 20, 2008 Report Share Posted April 20, 2008 i guess i will figure all this out in due time. you may know me by my newby post. i thought i could get a 20 round drum and be fine. i also thought i could tape 2 10 rnd mags together and be as effective. Link to post Share on other sites
pedal2alloy 206 Posted April 20, 2008 Report Share Posted April 20, 2008 Sorry to be dense, but what's the problem with the drum and what do they do in the "workover" that makes it work? Link to post Share on other sites
cpu77 0 Posted April 20, 2008 Report Share Posted April 20, 2008 (edited) Hey I would buy a used one if I could find it for$350! Then have my gun reworked. I just never see them anywhere near that! I won't pay $700 to get a drum and get it working right. For some reason I hate giving up money and waiting 8 weeks for something that I will need to have fixed when I get it. I would buy one though if I could get it nowfor $350! On another note I like the looks of the MD polymer drum much better! I just have no idea when those will actually start getting in circulation. I have paid in advanced for things before and gotten burned so I am leary of doing that again. Not saying either company would do that, but they seem small and one major setup could be their end. Edited April 20, 2008 by cpu77 Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 20, 2008 Report Share Posted April 20, 2008 Sorry to be dense, but what's the problem with the drum and what do they do in the "workover" that makes it work? Don't know how in the world you have been here so long and haven't heard but no problem...I'm glad you asked.... The problem is it makes a better paper weight, door stop, lipstick dispenser, etc...than it does a magazine. It was designed in a hurry (using only one shotgun) and the prototype wasn't tested like it should have been before it went into full production. As a result, MAJOR design flaws went unaddressed and are still not being addressed. Their ridiculous claim is that the shotgun itself is flawed (even though they are one of, if not THE most popular and desirable shotguns on the planet right now due to their AK based action and full reliability / adaptability) and needs their "special" reliability service to work. Funny though, how they all work just fine with the mags that are properly designed for them huh? They don't choke and freeze up until you plug one of those overpriced abominations into them and expect them to work like they do with ALL your other mags. So they sucker you into buying their space age boat anchor by posting video after video on youtube and advertising in SGN, all the while claiming there is "nothing whatsoever wrong with their drum". But if you read the fine print you will notice that they do NOT guarantee it will work in your S-12 unless you send it to them so they can change it to function with their product. SCAM! No thanks, I'll put my money in mags that will work in my gun and everyone else's I know, and we can shoot all day and trade mags around with no hiccups. Oh and their special "reliability service" is nothing but a little bit of polishing here and there that you can search this forum and see there are those of us who have been doing this kind of thing, to IMPROVE an already reliable shotgun, for YEARS. That's the beauty of this forum. There are unselfish folks here willing to give good advice freely and even show step by step instructions for people patient enough to read them and follow them. Then we are even here to answer specific questions if you have any problems. But then there are those who only want to sucker you out of your money. Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted April 20, 2008 Report Share Posted April 20, 2008 Their ridiculous claim is that the shotgun itself is flawed (even though they are one of, if not THE most popular and desirable shotguns on the planet right now due to their AK based action and full reliability / adaptability) and needs their "special" reliability service to work. Funny though, how they all work just fine with the mags that are properly designed for them huh? They don't choke and freeze up until you plug one of those overpriced abominations into them and expect them to work like they do with ALL your other mags. For those of you that glossed over Cobra's post this cannot be stressed enough! The shotgun works with EVERYTHING else out there EXCEPT the WM drum! So WM says it is the SHOTGUN that is the problem!!!?? Ok, let's look at the AGP mags. When they first came out, there were a couple of issues with a few guns that they addressed. Thus we have the GEN 2 mag followers! Make your own choice, but bring along some Vaseline if you go with WM! Link to post Share on other sites
Pa. shooter 0 Posted April 20, 2008 Report Share Posted April 20, 2008 Well I'm new here and all but what I want to know is who is giving out all the kool-aid? What I mean is there seems to be some stiff bias, I came here because I saw a wraithmaker drum being passed around at the range firing through 2 s-12's one guy had the box and brown wrap laying on the bench I asked about the shotguns both were factory and the guns functioned flawlessly I even got to try it myself one fellow shooter new the fellas had asked if they would be around long enough for him to go home and get his s-12 we talked for a while shot a couple more drums at some steel poppers and when the fellow pulled up grinning ear to ear they loaded up the drum put it in his s-12 and fired 3 shots and failed to eject the gun would function at a mediocre level you could expect a failure about 2 or 3 times per drum so whats going on here the guy also said first thing not to use the winchester ammo but the other 2 guns had no problem with it and niether did the drum the 3rd s-12 wouldn't even fire winchester through the 5rnd. mag so what gives! do you guys work for md or what? I would have missed out if I would have listened to you! The other drum looks neat but I want one now and looks like there 8-12 weeks backordered with alliance I will probably order both as they will probably both triple in value after elections but I want to see how the other drum works first I was impressed with the wraithmaker! Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted April 20, 2008 Report Share Posted April 20, 2008 No we do not work for MD. Since you are new here I am going to recommend that you do a search and read the threads that deal with the development and subsequent problems with the WM drum. You will also find threads by those who have had direct dealings with WM. No koolaid, simple facts. Good luck with your search. Link to post Share on other sites
Pa. shooter 0 Posted April 24, 2008 Report Share Posted April 24, 2008 Well I didn't have to look far the proof is in this very thread post #15 had a tromix that was "picky" with low brass shells and his agp mags had problems but you all say that the guns are reliable nothing wrong with the guns but he sent it to Alliance Armament and now he says it functions without a hiccup and the action is smooth and now the agp mags work as well now just think about what your'e saying I hear a lot of tromix hype but if he's all that shouldn't the gun have functioned great from him? Also look at this cobra guys thread I mean he contradicts himself by saying how reliable and excellent they are and turns right around and talks about all the info on mods here to make them reliable, people with common sense can see this no offense intended but would it not be to the better good of all to shoot it straight unless your'e gonna call the guy a liar he had a tromix gun that was picky and agp mags didn't work gets it back from Alliance and the agp's and the drum both work and no problem with low brass, logic would say the guns at least some of them need work and I commend them for being upfront about it! now I'm sure you will find a way to try and rationalize you being right and me being wrong. Link to post Share on other sites
localfiend 0 Posted April 24, 2008 Report Share Posted April 24, 2008 Pa. shooter, I'm also new here, and have no stake in any of this. However, I've done my homework as Will suggested that you should. Go and do a little looking through the past threads and you'll see that the main problem is not that the the WM drum has some serious design flaws, but that the owners business practices left quite a bit to be desired. I don't really know why I'm saying anything at all, except that I'm quite sure everyone else here is sick of dealing with the issue. Go check the facts, see how people were treated, and pay close attention to the way Alliance handled the whole situation. Then come back and ask questions (but before you even do that, try and use some punctuation - your writing is quite hard to follow). Guess I'm just annoyed reading this kind of stuff when I'd like to be seeing some more Saiga 12 development. Any chance of an American made tank break (hint, hint)? Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted April 24, 2008 Report Share Posted April 24, 2008 I am going to stay out of this one, this time. Ive already said my peace. Link to post Share on other sites
Eric Pate 478 Posted April 24, 2008 Report Share Posted April 24, 2008 Well I didn't have to look far the proof is in this very thread post #15 had a tromix that was "picky" with low brass shells and his agp mags had problems but you all say that the guns are reliable nothing wrong with the guns but he sent it to Alliance Armament and now he says it functions without a hiccup and the action is smooth and now the agp mags work as well now just think about what your'e saying I hear a lot of tromix hype but if he's all that shouldn't the gun have functioned great from him? Also look at this cobra guys thread I mean he contradicts himself by saying how reliable and excellent they are and turns right around and talks about all the info on mods here to make them reliable, people with common sense can see this no offense intended but would it not be to the better good of all to shoot it straight unless your'e gonna call the guy a liar he had a tromix gun that was picky and agp mags didn't work gets it back from Alliance and the agp's and the drum both work and no problem with low brass, logic would say the guns at least some of them need work and I commend them for being upfront about it! now I'm sure you will find a way to try and rationalize you being right and me being wrong. Dude, please use an occasional period. That almost gives me a headache reading that. Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 24, 2008 Report Share Posted April 24, 2008 "That cobra guy" has one. Do you? It doesn't take any kool aid to figure out what a crappy design the WM drum is. All it takes is some real experience with it. I personally, don't believe you when you say you have seen it work in not only one unmodified gun, but several. If it were possible we would have already seen videos of that happening. I said a long time ago, and I will say again, I will eat those words the day I see just ONE instance where a WM drum gets inserted in a brand new unfired, unaltered S-12, fresh out of the wrap, in a NEW box, and it manages to fire 20 rounds without a hiccup. I want to see VIDEO of someone cutting the sealed plastic bag off, opening the box, unwrapping the nasty brown paper and immediately inserting a fully loaded WM drum, then while still on camera, chamber the first round and fire ALL 20! Until I see that happen, I will continue to make it my mission to tell everyone I talk to about it, what a piece of crap it is and what a good door stop it makes. Kind of reminds me of the still unclaimed million dollar reward for a snake over 40 feet long.... Link to post Share on other sites
Garys4598 1,065 Posted April 24, 2008 Report Share Posted April 24, 2008 . Link to post Share on other sites
sharkbit 109 Posted April 24, 2008 Report Share Posted April 24, 2008 eh, I'm sure somebody's already posted this somewhere, but oh what the hell...... Alliance Armarment response to Saiga-12 forum: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IElLCO48HOQ BTW, a gunshop by me is selling one of their saiga12's with a wraithmaker drum and quad rail for $2500 Link to post Share on other sites
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