bigjimcalhoun 0 Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 I got my new S-12 today and am disappointed. Prior to today, I have never handled a Saiga Shotgun. The safety is in the engaged position and is bent in such a way that it will not dissengage. I used a flat-head screwdriver to pry up the end of the lever a little so it will dissengage. I still need to do this more in order for it to move freelyl The firearm also has a few scratches on it, one of which is on the outer radius of the safety lever range of motion. There was also a whole in the box where the bolt has popped through and the paint is worn off the end of the bolt. I am pretty sure this is not a used gun, but maybe one that was tossed about in a warehouse. The shotgun also has a "bolt stop" on the bottom of the receiver near the front of the trigger guard. I have not heard this feature mentioned in any posts. Is this a new feature, or one that exists but not familiar to myself? The owner's manual was written by someone for whom U.S. English is not a first, or even a second language. From what I gather, this bolt stop is to load a loaded magazine on a closed bolt action. See if this makes sense to anyone - below is from the user manual. Some versions of the shotgun feature the bolt stop (see figure 7) which allows with no practice in attaching the loaded magazinee to the shotgun and with the moving parts being in the utmost front position proceed as follows. - dissengage the safety - Put the moving parts on the bolt stop for which purpose to retract them till the stop, sink flush the bolt stop lever, protruding beneath the receiver bottom and while holding it smoothly release the moving parts attached the loaded magazine to the shotgun -Take off the moving parts from the bolt stop, for which purpose to retract the moving parts till the stop and release them abruptly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paladin 37 Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 I'm sorry you're disappointed. All I can say is that it is what it is. An economically priced Russian AK based on a 1947 military design that has been modified into a shotgun. It's not a show piece or a modern technological wonder, it's a simple, rugged weapon meant for fighting in extreme conditions. Not giving you a hard time in any way-but what were you expecting? The bolt hold open is just meant to hold the bolt open. I use it to lock back the bolt to reload a full mag. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John_pro2a 3 Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 Yeah, POS. I'll give you $200 for it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 Real POS. I'll give ya $150. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigjimcalhoun 0 Posted June 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 I was expecting something with a fit and feel more than what this has, and a user manual not written by Borat. I own a Century AK-47 and century takes a beating on the forums, but I expected a significant improvement wit the Saiga, it being new and all. So the "bolt stop" is a bolt hold open? If so, then I understand the concept. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ballman 0 Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 What do you expect from a commie gun? I'm sorry you got taken in by the "Saiga Fraud". If you ship me your weapon to use as an example, I will send you $225.00 to help you purchase another firearm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
getitat 609 Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 Hello I will say that as prices paid for these weapons increase, there may be a similar rise in people's expectations of a quality level that really is unrealistic. They are an outstanding $350-$400 weapon, maybe mediocre at best at $650-$750. Now, they can be made into a weapon that will make those figures irrelevant, of course, but that doesn't make them any more appealing "out of the box" at those comparatively inflated prices. JMHO (From a previously disgruntled purchaser of a rifle with glaring factory defects, preventing it from functioning....But, I'm "gruntled" now.) Respectfully posted, guido2 in Houston Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Franky 2 Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 bigjim, Your not looking at the big picture here. The things you mention are not problems or any reason to get dissappointed about. The Saiga-12's that come in a box have holes in them frome the bolt. That's how it is. The safety lever can easily be replaced. The cresent shaped scratch is on all AK style guns. That's how it is. The bolt hold open tab are on the newer shotties for easier inert of the magazines. That's how it is. Where's the Fucking problem. Congradulations on your new S-12. And if you don't want it there are tons of folks here that are wiling to take it off your hands into theres and not be dissapointed. FMJ. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigjimcalhoun 0 Posted June 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 I might be over-reacting a little. I was expecting American or Japanese automotive-paint quality, not 2nd-world military industrial quality, like an army truck. I can bend the safety a little to make it work. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mscottrogers 56 Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 If you don't mind me asking, how much did you pay? If its below 600, you can turn around and sell it for that in the condition its in, high demand , low supply and all. Its not a showpiece. really not intended to be, ever. BUT you can turn it into one of the best combat shotguns in the world for not much money if you have the ninja saiga skills of dremel-fu. seriously, if you don't like it, post it here and it will be sold in 10 minutes!!!!!! Hell, I just got my george bush dollars today and was intending to pay off a credit card. I'ld give it to you for your saiga. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 Dude all that is normal. If you are happy with that Century crap, a real Russian AK shotgun should be like breath of fresh air. Maybe try and look at it like I do when I see a new unconverted Saiga....like an empty canvas. They are nice utilitarian weapons as is, but have the potential to be works of art. Be happy you got one at least, there are a whole lot of others who are only dreaming of that. That said...I do think it's pretty shitty how they still manage to get shipped brand new with nothing to keep the charging handle from poking throught the side of the box. That's just shitty. Someone should step up and fix that... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavePAL84 1 Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 I'm sorry you're disappointed. All I can say is that it is what it is. An economically priced Russian AK based on a 1947 military design Well, to be fair, the S-12 has a stamped receiver, so it's really a 1950's design (AKM was first fielded in 1959 IIRC) modified into a shotgun Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mavrick16o 6 Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 YOU REALY DONT IMPRESS ME WITH YOUR PROBLEMS THERE ARE NO DEFECTS FROM THE FACTORY, SORRY THE FEDS. OR WHO EVER DO THE INSPECTIONS ONCE THESE GET STATE SIDE ROUGHED UP YOUR GUN, BUT THEN AGAIN WHY DID YOU TAKE YOUR ORDER WHEN THERE WAS NOTICABLE DAMAGE TO THE BOX? DONT BLAME THE GUN OR IZAMASH FOR THE SHIPPERS F-UP!! AS TO THE BOLT HOLD OPEN OR BHO THEY HAVE BEEN ON THE WEAPONS FOR A YEARS!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 as a representative of the importer, in essence (as a distributer) and thus a factory dealer, I would be more than happy to have some contact information, and MORE than happy to spend a bit of time discussing potential issues with your new firearm. by the way, if you have the gun unloaded, and depress the trigger, THEN move the safety to off, does this do anyhting? There have been a number of guns that have oversized spring ears on them, that catch in the moving parts, if you do something odd, like put the saftey on, while still holding the trigger.......that particular problem appears to be due to the BHO spring assy, or something or other.......... I cannot say in your particular case, but I would very much entertain going over it all with you and your gun. I for one, do not like to hear about the best gun on the planet giving anyone a problem......... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ClickClickD'oh 1 Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 Ooookaaaaaay then... I always look for the safety scratch on AKs at the range. Guys with a well worn safety scratch I pay attention to when they speak. People with a very light or non-existant safety scratch... Yeah well.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
waltham_41 52 Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 Get you a ten round mag, load it up and see how fast you can empty the mag. Suddenly little things like a communist quality paint job and a bent safety lever are not as big of deals. Trust me on that one. My box the charging handle had polked througth and was white also. Get some Duplicolor hi temp semi gloss black paint on a q tip, fix that area and it blends in really well. And the safety lever ought to be easy to tweak a little so its where it needs to be. Go forth and shoot! You will love it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
basic 0 Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 I was expecting American or Japanese automotive-paint quality Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gunfixr 76 Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 $150? $200? Hell, I'll give you $450 right now and pay the shipping. If you want, I'll turn it into something you'd fight to keep. The Russians don't build guns to show off in museums, they build guns to work, every time, no matter what the conditions. Pretty is as pretty does. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
joelrod47 373 Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 ..............works of art................(They all look like hell in factory configuration............) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GPalmer 1 Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 The appearance of Saiga's is not meant to be art, and you'll never fall in love with the stock gun's looks or apparent build quality. What you'll fall in love with is its performance as it goes bang again and again... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
joelrod47 373 Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 .........and again and again and again and again and again............ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Twinsen 86 Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 (edited) I'm pretty sure the safety lever is weak enough that if you wanted to you could just grab it and bend it backwards 180 degrees, loosening it shouldn't be a problem. As for the finish on the moving parts, yeah, it's pretty bad. It's a world above the crap Century uses though (parkerizing). What I like about it how I can throw it down a flight of stairs and pick it up and know it's still the best shotgun ever made. Edited June 21, 2008 by Twinsen Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paladin 37 Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 I'm sorry you're disappointed. All I can say is that it is what it is. An economically priced Russian AK based on a 1947 military design Well, to be fair, the S-12 has a stamped receiver, so it's really a 1950's design (AKM was first fielded in 1959 IIRC) modified into a shotgun Whats that I hear? ...a hair splitting? OK, It's on now dude! IIRC I actually beat you on two stages the last 3gun, your going down! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joe Blasco 1 Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 I got my new S-12 today and am disappointed. Prior to today, I have never handled a Saiga Shotgun. The safety is in the engaged position and is bent in such a way that it will not dissengage. I used a flat-head screwdriver to pry up the end of the lever a little so it will dissengage. I still need to do this more in order for it to move freelyl The firearm also has a few scratches on it, one of which is on the outer radius of the safety lever range of motion. Ok this was the greatest Sorry I could't resist myself... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 I always look for the safety scratch on AKs at the range. Guys with a well worn safety scratch I pay attention to when they speak. People with a very light or non-existant safety scratch... But I never use the safety on mine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
belt fed frog 56 Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 you mean it has a Safety i had no ideal which part on it is the safety a pic would help me find it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigjimcalhoun 0 Posted June 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 you mean it has a Safety i had no ideal which part on it is the safety a pic would help me find it A pic with my safety is attached. You may not be able to see in the pic, but the end of the safety wsas dinged in. What are the 4 tools that come with the Saiga? I know the first in the picture is for placing some cleaning cloth and cleaning the barrel. What are the other 3 tools? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Seraph 5 Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 bigjimcalhoun, give it a chance. As these others have said, you're right that it's not a glamorous weapon, at least as it comes out of the box. Nonetheless, there is certain obvious and unique virtue to even a box-stock Saiga 12, in OEM configuration. Forget about the crummy OEM finish, and consider the ability to reliably feed from detachable 10rd box mags, or even 20rd drums. That's what you bought it for, isn't it? A Benelli can't give you that. Look at the money all these guys are offering you to take your disappoinment off your hands. They're not fools. Take that disappointment to the range with you, and I warrant that when you bring it back home, you'll see it as more of a trophy. Then, when your last objection is that you think it could be better aesthetically, or ergonomically, you can send it out to be transformed into a beautiful, functional work of art, like this monster: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavePAL84 1 Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 I'm sorry you're disappointed. All I can say is that it is what it is. An economically priced Russian AK based on a 1947 military design Well, to be fair, the S-12 has a stamped receiver, so it's really a 1950's design (AKM was first fielded in 1959 IIRC) modified into a shotgun Whats that I hear? ...a hair splitting? OK, It's on now dude! IIRC I actually beat you on two stages the last 3gun, your going down! I guess when you get old you have to grab onto anything that you can get Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Franky 2 Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 Nice Seraph, Where'd you get that muzzle brake? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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