Read0nly 0 Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 Mine is 16" barrel; manual says 104mm spread at 100m (3.9 MOA) With the scope borrowed from PSL-54C my best 5-shot group at 50 yards is a little bit worse than 1 inch the second best group is almost twice as bad: Looks like factory data is about right. I used Wolf HP "Military Classic" ammo, purchased at JGSales. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scoutjoe 276 Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 The Wolf ammo might be a bigger reason for that larger group as opposed to your rifle. Its not known for its accuracy, it's known for being relatively cheap and going bang. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
devildogdakota 804 Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 Whenever I get a new rifle, I completely de-grease and clean it, then run a few hundred rounds of factory ammo through it (with intermitten cleaning in between). After I slightly break it in, (500 or so rounds) I completely clean it again. Then I use match grade ammo or precise reloads to site it in, using the irons/scope. This way, I can usually blame the ammo itself (whatever ammo I use from there on out) for bad groupage. ( understanding that the tolerances are a bit less tighter than an AR, for example.) I almost always have had the best results using this method when it comes to getting the most accuracy out of my rifles, namely my three aks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Read0nly 0 Posted October 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 The Wolf ammo might be a bigger reason for that larger group as opposed to your rifle. Its not known for its accuracy, it's known for being relatively cheap and going bang. Whenever I get a new rifle, I completely de-grease and clean it... Any chance you could provide some data for your rifle? Either a spread reported in manual or (better yet!) range results? My toy is currently down due to "slower-than-expected" conversion process Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MP76 0 Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 The Wolf ammo might be a bigger reason for that larger group as opposed to your rifle. Its not known for its accuracy, it's known for being relatively cheap and going bang.Agreed, I thought it was a universal fact that FMJ's are better for the range. MP76 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
taurussvt 0 Posted November 1, 2008 Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 Mine is 96MM at 100M distance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
avatarx 0 Posted November 2, 2008 Report Share Posted November 2, 2008 Mine is 113mm at 100 meters. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gtnichols 51 Posted November 2, 2008 Report Share Posted November 2, 2008 there are some older posts with this data too.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11sec_lx 0 Posted November 2, 2008 Report Share Posted November 2, 2008 (edited) Mine says 62mm @ 100 meters. I have a 16" barrel. Edited November 2, 2008 by 11sec_lx Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GPalmer 1 Posted November 2, 2008 Report Share Posted November 2, 2008 The Wolf ammo might be a bigger reason for that larger group as opposed to your rifle. Its not known for its accuracy, it's known for being relatively cheap and going bang. +1, I would try better ammo if you want to see what your toy can do. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
555JM 10 Posted May 24, 2009 Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 Geez, mine are terrible: 124mm for the 16" x39 132mm for the .223 AAAACKKK....Both around 5" at 100meters! My Mini-14 will easily beat that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
imarangemaster 315 Posted May 24, 2009 Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 7.62x39 converted Saiga: Silver Bear JHP: 4 shot cloverleaf (1/2 in) at 25 yards with 5th shot opened up to 3/4 inch vertical. Iron sights. Did not do paper at 100, but killed every pop can and dirt clod from 75 to 100 yards. Good enough for me. Golden tiger was not quite as good, and wolf was double. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zesty 0 Posted May 24, 2009 Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 My 16" 7.62 says 109mm, and my 20" .223 93mm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SOPMOD 254 Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 7.62x39 guns with the usual bullet weights specified for this caliber are seriously overspun by that 1 in 10 twist barrel and will produce pretty lousy accuracy.The European IPSC shooters who run 7.62x39 are swearing by 150gr projectiles but in 308 a 1 in 10 twist barrel is 175gr bullet terrirtory. 7.62x39 rifles would probably benefit from a different twist somewhere between 1 in 12 to 1 in 14 for the light bullets they shoot. My 7.62x39 Saiga is in the 3 inch range from a bench with an optic while my Saiga 308 made in the same factory with the same procedures will produce groups half that size under identical shooting conditions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
unclejake 428 Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 (edited) The manuals say x39 is 103 mm @ 100 m, and 223 is 93 mm @ 100 m. I do know that after conversions, with iron sights, both will make a beer can dance at fifty yards with every shot... good enough for me too! Edited May 25, 2009 by unclejake Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paprotective 362 Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 (edited) Whats that saying... Man/Zombie size target is 11x16 (torso) or something.. I forget.. 3-5 inch group at 100 would be sufficient... We all would prefer 1 inch at 100 yards.. The rifles are made for DEPENDABILITY AND RELIABILITY..(oh and full-auto). My old M/N is under 1 1/2" at 100 with a cheapy 2-7 scope. Good enough for me.. When I get mine in (anyday now...) I will post my pics of target with measurements.. My brother-in-law (poor NJ resident) has just got his and he likes it. I will try to measure how his groups (are) and report back findings. Edited May 25, 2009 by YouWontHearItComing Quote Link to post Share on other sites
555JM 10 Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 (edited) Wonder how much of this supposed inaccuracy is really first shot-last shot issues? By that I mean, the first round from a magazine being chambered by hand and the last round being fired with no upward magazine pressure on the bolt/bolt carrier leading to "fliers" that expand the group. The 5-shot groups I remember shooting with the Mini-14 often had three holes nearly touching with the other two a couple of inches away. Never took the time to determine where they came in the firing sequence. It would be easy enough to pin down. The x39 certainly doesn't shoot like a 5 moa gun in the limited usage it's seen so far. They pretty much go where it's pointed. The .223 has yet to be fired. Would be fun to play with reloads and try to find a combination they like....but with the split case necks I got firing some old reloads in the x39, that probably won't happen. I agree, though. MOZ (minute of zombie) is plenty good enough for what these guns are intended for. For driving tacks, I've got an old Remington 788 that'll shoot into 0.3" at 100 yd. Bob Edited May 25, 2009 by 555JM Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kymasabe 1 Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 Mine says 111mm. If I can hit pieplate at 100 yards and COM at 200, it's just fine !! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Newaza 0 Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 I have two Saigas, both with 16" barrel. My dimpled Saiga is 92mm at 100m. (Translates to approx. 3.3" at 100 yards) My non-dimpled Saiga is 142mm at 100m. (Translates to approx. 5.1" at 100 yards) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paprotective 362 Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 Uh Oh... Here we go for the holiday.. Dimples vs. Non-again.. Ugh.. LOL Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Newaza 0 Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 Well, obviously, the dimples make it a wee bit more accurate. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Teaser 0 Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 My Certificate reads "Extreme spread of impact when firing four bullets at 100-m range." Accuracy of fire is 114mm. I have the 16"barrel. I agree with YouWontHearItComing and SOPMOD. The rifles are made for DEPENDABILITY AND RELIABILITY. Ammo does play a part also. I was shooting Monarch 123gr. FMJ today at 50 & 100yds. I shot 40 rounds today. I had four fliers at 100 yds. One high off target, one low and two to the left(one on paper & one at edge of target). I would say 114mm is about right at 100 yds. 100yds. 50yds. all on paper no fliers. Nice groups are a bonus. I was shooting 4 shot groups with stock trigger from factory. The Saiga is not a target rifle. It will hit what you point at and that is all I want it to do. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
imarangemaster 315 Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 (edited) Finally dug out my factory certificate. It says 81 mm at 100 meters. That's about 3+ inch with iron sights and the Saiga's Rube Goldberg factory trigger linkage. The 1/2" 4 shot cloverleaf group (even with the 5th shot that opened it to 3/4") at 25 yards seems about right with PG and excellent Tapco G2 FCG. Edited May 25, 2009 by imarangemaster Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DEshooter 1 Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 I have an 08 skeleton stock. My certificate reads: "Extreme spread of impacts when firing four bullets at 100-m range (accuracy of fire) is 138 mm." Finally got to the range last Friday, my friend brought his CAI WASR 10. We went thru a couple hundred or so rounds. Started out on the bench...stepped off ~75yds to target....this was the only one not in use. Using Wolf 122gr HP & 124gr Mil Classic...my Saiga did about 4inches for about 10 rounds then started slowly stringing diagonally up and right...barrel was definately heating up. But I'm not much of a bench shooter. My buddies Romo did about 5-6 inches then started stringing up diagonally left and up??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
red caddy 0 Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 In this thread, Sounds to me like 3 to 5 MOA performance is pretty normal. Does anybody have any better results or input with a Ruger Mini- 30? The reason I ask is not to stir schitz, I'm looking to buy one or the other, (Saiga/Ruger) more than likely, both. The Mini 30's I'm finding around here are in the $600-$800 range, the Saiga's are half of that. I 'm trying to buy the most accurate one first. Reliability, in my experience, is about the same. Comments? BTW, I have a custom XP-100, in 7.62 X 39 that shoots my hand loads to .7 MOA and Wolf to 1.2 MOA. I believe the cartridge is inherently accurate, I'm just looking for the best accuracy from a semi auto rifle. As usual, all comments (smartazz and otherwise) are cordially invited. Thanks, Paul. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JonTheSavage 0 Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 I don't have any pics, but at around 50-60 yards it was driving a tack with a 9x power scope in 4 shots with one off by a little over an inch. That was Wolf Classic FMJ. 16 in barrel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hoopster50 0 Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 16" barrel, factory certificate says 110mm at 100 meters. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 (edited) Uh, that part of my "acceptance certificate" is blank... nothing there. Course mine is a Legion rifle instead of a general "sporter", don't know if that normally makes any difference... *shrug* Edited June 17, 2009 by post-apocalyptic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigsal 757 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 OK, Im gonna say this once, you can believe me or choose not to. Last summer I took my saiga out for a bit of long range testing. I had my brother stand 600 yards down range with a 2 way radio. Upon my instruction, my brother threw a indian head penny high into the air. Using only iron sights I managed to hit the penny not once but TWICE before it hit the ground! Don't believe me? Well I took a video to prove it: HERE Quote Link to post Share on other sites
imarangemaster 315 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 OK, Im gonna say this once, you can believe me or choose not to. Last summer I took my saiga out for a bit of long range testing. I had my brother stand 600 yards down range with a 2 way radio. Upon my instruction, my brother threw a indian head penny high into the air. Using only iron sights I managed to hit the penny not once but TWICE before it hit the ground! Don't believe me? Well I took a video to prove it: HERE Dude, you are so BAAAAADDDDD! Hahahaha! I was expecting one of those moron You Tube videos like the guy being "Tacticool" with his Tantal, running and firing, repeated failures to feed, terrible immediate action drills (or he he thought were passing for them) , strong hand elbow flopping around while he is firing, and standing in a turret isosceles stance (instead of bladed to project less frontal (target) area to the opposition), in the open in the supposed "combat course" with a large tree offering cover and concealment only three feet to his left. I laughed so hard at that moron armchair commando I almost wet my pants! His video was a veritable "What NOT to do" video. Eve someone who was a cook in the Army would have had more training and savvy than this guy! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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