NEW SLIDING SAFETY FOR SAIGA 12

[jdtravers 637]

An advanced sliding mechanical safety has been developed for the AK Based Receivers. It only requires .200 of travel and has positive ball detents. It is extremely fast to engage/disengage the safety with the trigger finger and eliminates the original safety/selector level completely.

[gtnichols 51]

AWESOME,.. I want one!

[Wakko 10]

Jack, what's the cost on these? Any modification required to the receiver? Others will ask the same question, I'm sure.

[jdtravers 637]

AWESOME,.. I want one!

I don't want to abuse the Forum and appear as an advertisement of this product. I will find out what is required to enter the information in the Vendor forum of the Saiga Forum.

 

I will give out general customer/shooter information and say this is pretty slick. I have used it and it turns the Saiga Platform into a functional piece of equipment. You can now disengage the safety just as fast as any conventional system and it will go on safe FASTER than any other conventional system out there. This is the ticket for competition when you have to go back on safe and abandon the Saiga. This has been perhaps the biggest problem with the Saigas in the past.

 

I know it is available at this time, keep checking on the Vendor Forum for updates.

 

Jack

[Trzeci98 0]

I like it on the other side, a la ar-15

[bf2rules141 3]

Can you show a photo of the inside view?

[BobAsh 582]

I have used it and it turns the Saiga Platform into a functional piece of equipment.

 

No offense to you Jack, and I'm a big fan of innovation, but this statement cracked me up a bit.

 

You're implying that the AK-style safety is less than functional?

[Twinsen 86]

Hahaha. Bobby boy. GET HIM! GRRR!

[BobAsh 582]

lol, just sayin'.

 

Don't get me wrong, if it's different from the stock weapon there is a group of guys that will buy it. I'm sure there's some kind of market for it; for some reason people are always looking for an alternative AK safety.

 

But that statement is just wrong. Also, what do you do for a dust cover?

 

I'm not trying to be a dick about it. I didn't even say anything about member status/advertisement.

[bigj480 203]

lol, just sayin'.

 

Don't get me wrong, if it's different from the stock weapon there is a group of guys that will buy it. I'm sure there's some kind of market for it; for some reason people are always looking for an alternative AK safety.

 

But that statement is just wrong. Also, what do you do for a dust cover?

 

I'm not trying to be a dick about it. I didn't even say anything about member status/advertisement.

 

I completely agree, but I didn't want to post that because I would likely get attacked for doing so. Anyway, I think it would be cool for someone to make a thumb safety, like those on the Galil. That way you can keep your right side safety lever to cover the gap behind the cocking lever and it's even easier to manipulate. No receiver modification is necessary for this, right? That seems to be the main benefit of this product, along with it's speed. Might be great for those that compete and that seems to be the market they are targeting.

[csspecs 1,987]

Looks like it's on the right side of the firearm when looking down the sights right?

 

If so I'm going to assume that it needs a slot milled and that the normal safety lever "keyhole" will need to be filled.

 

Am I right with that?

[nalioth 405]

Anyway, I think it would be cool for someone to make a thumb safety, like those on the Galil. That way you can keep your right side safety lever to cover the gap behind the cocking lever and it's even easier to manipulate. No receiver modification is necessary for this, right? That seems to be the main benefit of this product, along with it's speed. Might be great for those that compete and that seems to be the market they are targeting.

Why does everyone want a Galil style left side safety?

 

Don't some of you guys know it operates completely opposite how your thumb moves?

 

Don't some of you guys know that it'd take Andre the Giant to have the thumb strength to operate it?

 

Here's how it works:

 

All the way forward : Safe

 

One click backwards : Full auto (on selective fire rifles)

 

Two clicks backwards (all the way to the rear) : Semi auto

 

 

Some of you guys complain about how difficult the regular safety lever is to manipulate, how frickin' hard to you think it'll be to do it with your thumb BACKWARDS?

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, the receiver would have to be cut for a traditional Galil style left side safety. It's not very speedy.

 

 

( Am I getting the feeling that folks think putting a left side Galil style safety lever on their Saiga will bring them an AR15-like experience? )

Edited December 17, 2008 by nalioth

[acercanto 6]

Shhhhhh Nalioth You're gonna jinx all us lefties!

 

Lefties Unite!

Acer

[jdtravers 637]

I have used it and it turns the Saiga Platform into a functional piece of equipment.

 

No offense to you Jack, and I'm a big fan of innovation, but this statement cracked me up a bit.

 

You're implying that the AK-style safety is less than functional?

 

Bob,

 

I don't want to get into semantics here, but it depends on what you consider functional. The selector lever is functional, so is a black powder muzzle loader.

 

We were looking for speed and one finger operation primarily for competition, and this is the way to go.

 

The selector lever is perhaps the biggest pitfal of the weapons platform when preparing to reengage the safety and move to the next weapon system for that particular course of fire. You generally have to reach over with your left hand and reengage the safety and this is entirely too slow.

 

I have carried the AK-47 for numerous years in North Africa and the Middle East when working/training indigenous forces and I am a fan of the weapons platform and the work you guys do at Tromix.

 

My passion is competition and to make the Saiga 12 more competitive and promote the sport in general.

 

I developed this for competion use, but it will cross over, with semi-only platforms.

 

Regards,

 

Jack

[jdtravers 637]

Anyway, I think it would be cool for someone to make a thumb safety, like those on the Galil. That way you can keep your right side safety lever to cover the gap behind the cocking lever and it's even easier to manipulate. No receiver modification is necessary for this, right? That seems to be the main benefit of this product, along with it's speed. Might be great for those that compete and that seems to be the market they are targeting.

Why does everyone want a Galil style left side safety?

 

Don't some of you guys know it operates completely opposite how your thumb moves?

 

Don't some of you guys know that it'd take Andre the Giant to have the thumb strength to operate it?

 

Here's how it works:

 

All the way forward : Safe

 

One click backwards : Full auto (on selective fire rifles)

 

Two clicks backwards (all the way to the rear) : Semi auto

 

 

Some of you guys complain about how difficult the regular safety lever is to manipulate, how frickin' hard to you think it'll be to do it with your thumb BACKWARDS?

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, the receiver would have to be cut for a traditional Galil style left side safety. It's not very speedy.

 

 

 

( Am I getting the feeling that folks think putting a left side Galil style safety lever on their Saiga will bring them an AR15-like experience? )

 

You are absolutely right!! The ergonomics just do not work. Even an AR safety requires the left hand to put it back on safe.

We are looking for the fastest most positive system we could find, and it has to be by the trigger finger.

 

Jack

[6500rpm 670]

Nalioth, not many people know the difference between the fa and the semi auto thumb safety. The semi version wouldn't be that bad if you could find the linkage that allows you to push to fire, pull back for safe but with the short lever it still takes a lot of effort to move it as designed. Also, I'm pretty sure the s12 has more sweep than the Galil. Can you rack the bolt back and chamber a round with the safety on with the new style lever?

Edited December 17, 2008 by 6500rpm

[BobAsh 582]

The selector lever is perhaps the biggest pitfal of the weapons platform when preparing to reengage the safety and move to the next weapon system for that particular course of fire. You generally have to reach over with your left hand and reengage the safety and this is entirely too slow.

 

I haven't seen the selector operated over-the-top, but then I've never used the AK in competition either. I have seen the welded extensions to the selector for the trigger finger.

 

Well in any case good luck with the project, Jack.

[jdtravers 637]

Thanks Bob, I wish you guys the best at Tromix and I hope we all have a good year to look forward to in both the industry and our shooting sports.

 

Regards,

 

Jack

[frick 3]

I really have no opinion one way or the other about the function or usefulness.

 

However, do you feel comfortable producing something that carries that much liability with it?

 

Duplicating a FCG, while somewhat litigious if something fails, is nothing compared to the direct replacement of the one single component specifically designed to prevent the gun from firing accidentally, there is always the argument that the original safety/selector as manufactured failed, dumping some blame on the actual manufacturer of the firearm.

 

In other words, some spud shoots himself, or somebody else, accidentally with your safety on the gun, and you have a scumbag trial lawyer suing you for a defective product, even if baseless.

 

Just putting forth some food for thought, from someone who has been down that road in the manufacturing industry COMPLETELY unrelated to anything firearms related.

[TR Young 175]

I really have no opinion one way or the other about the function or usefulness.

 

However, do you feel comfortable producing something that carries that much liability with it?

 

Duplicating a FCG, while somewhat litigious if something fails, is nothing compared to the direct replacement of the one single component specifically designed to prevent the gun from firing accidentally, there is always the argument that the original safety/selector as manufactured failed, dumping some blame on the actual manufacturer of the firearm.

 

In other words, some spud shoots himself, or somebody else, accidentally with your safety on the gun, and you have a scumbag trial lawyer suing you for a defective product, even if baseless.

 

Just putting forth some food for thought, from someone who has been down that road in the manufacturing industry COMPLETELY unrelated to anything firearms related.

+1! Very slippery slope there, I agree.

[jdtravers 637]

I really have no opinion one way or the other about the function or usefulness.

 

However, do you feel comfortable producing something that carries that much liability with it?

 

Duplicating a FCG, while somewhat litigious if something fails, is nothing compared to the direct replacement of the one single component specifically designed to prevent the gun from firing accidentally, there is always the argument that the original safety/selector as manufactured failed, dumping some blame on the actual manufacturer of the firearm.

 

In other words, some spud shoots himself, or somebody else, accidentally with your safety on the gun, and you have a scumbag trial lawyer suing you for a defective product, even if baseless.

 

Just putting forth some food for thought, from someone who has been down that road in the manufacturing industry COMPLETELY unrelated to anything firearms related.

 

Frick,

 

When you are in the gun industry, you are faced with this issue/liability every time you work on a firearm and return it to the customer. Nothing new here, you can still end up in court irregardless of what has been done from replacing a stock to a complete build. It's the risk we are faced with every day whether you are a Gunsmith or an Arms Manufactuer, it is just the price of doing business.

 

Jack

Edited December 17, 2008 by jdtravers

[Thor's Hammer 33]

Jack, what's the cost on these? Any modification required to the receiver? Others will ask the same question, I'm sure.

 

comparing the above picture to my 109 it surely will require some permanent mods to the receiver.

[James92TSi 0]

Can you rack the bolt back and chamber a round with the safety on with the new style lever?

Don't want to put words in anyone's mouth, but my Captain Obvious powers of observation compel me...

 

Looks like the design slides forward for "safe" & has an internal crossbar (see: allen screws) that blocks the trigger at the rear legs, the same way the AK selector lug does when on safe.

 

This means several things.

 

1) When on safe, the trigger would not be able to pivot to accept the hammer under the trigger hook. The hammer would stop against the top of the trigger hook, and stop you from racking the bolt carrier. (It wouldn't be much of a safety if it allowed the hammer to pass the trigger hook.)

 

2) If you forced it past that binding point, you would bend/break the trigger hook & possibly (probably) end up with a runaway full auto upon releasing the charging handle.

 

3) If the hammer were already cocked, then sure you could rack it. The bolt carrier passes over the FCG when the hammer's already cocked.

Edited December 17, 2008 by James92TSi

[vbrtrmn 167]

I think it looks pretty decent, though I'd like to see some more and larger pix to decide if I would want it on my S12. Frankly I cannot operate the standard safety with one finger, I generally put my thumb over the dust cover and yank it up; or grab the bottom of the receiver and push it down. It is kind of cool to see someone innovate on something which hasn't changed much since the first AK was released.

 

Perhaps consider duplicating the notch, like this, so it would be a bit easier to get hold of.

[bigj480 203]

Nalioth, not many people know the difference between the fa and the semi auto thumb safety. The semi version wouldn't be that bad if you could find the linkage that allows you to push to fire, pull back for safe but with the short lever it still takes a lot of effort to move it as designed. Also, I'm pretty sure the s12 has more sweep than the Galil. Can you rack the bolt back and chamber a round with the safety on with the new style lever?

 

Yes, the one that is forward to fire is the one that I'm getting. I figured it might be a little stiff, but workable. I bet if you deleted the right side lever, as this requires, it would be real easy to use. Alternatively, you could grind the detent off of the lever to reduce resistance.

[jdtravers 637]

I think it looks pretty decent, though I'd like to see some more and larger pix to decide if I would want it on my S12. Frankly I cannot operate the standard safety with one finger, I generally put my thumb over the dust cover and yank it up; or grab the bottom of the receiver and push it down. It is kind of cool to see someone innovate on something which hasn't changed much since the first AK was released.

 

Perhaps consider duplicating the notch, like this, so it would be a bit easier to get hold of.

 

What you have dipicted, was one of the first designs, but I found it was not necessary and just added to machine cycle time.

 

The latest design is very ergonomic and works extremely well and give a positive feel with both engagement and disengagement.

 

Jack

[jdtravers 637]

Sorry if I offended contributors/vendors. I have been in the process with Jane in opening an account with the Saiga Forum and all the details will not be finalized until tomorrow because of scheduling/coordination conflicts between the two of us. But I have been given permission to post.

 

Regards,

 

Jack Travers

Millennium Custom II

Edited December 17, 2008 by jdtravers

[Wotan1105 7]

Just wanted to say, nice looking part. Am not in the market for one but always good to see something made with a purpose behind it. Good luck with it.

[Franky 2]

I don't like it. No offense

[jdtravers 637]

Just wanted to say, nice looking part. Am not in the market for one but always good to see something made with a purpose behind it. Good luck with it.

 

Thank you. For the purpose it has been designed, it performs extrodinarily well. I need to emphasize the fact, this part was designed with the SAIGA 12 Competition shooter in mind.

 

I have shot with with most of the top shooters who use the S12 and the most common complaint is the safety engagement/disengagement. When you shoot at the top level, .5 of a second is the difference between winning the stage and being the first looser.

 

In other words, this part is not for everybody.

 

I am retired US Army, 5th Special Forces Group (Abn) and I would have no problem utilizing this system in a home defense weapons platform or in a hostile situation. It is very fast and again, a very positive system.

 

I also have the magwells completed, just have to get them anodized and they will be ready by end of next week!! Will have pictures out probably by tomorrow.

 

Regards,

 

Jack

Edited December 17, 2008 by jdtravers