Pulled over for carrying

[Bayoupiper 738]

I think its funny because its not a lack of knowledge of the law on our part its that most police treat you like a CRIMINAL first and a CITIZEN last.

I'll give an example: my younger brother and a friend of ours wanted to go plinking with one of my rifles. A ruger 10/22 tacticooled with polymer furniture and a folding stock to be exact. Well coming back home they get pulled over by a local town cop. He sat them in the back of his police cruiser while he illegally searched their car. He found the rifle in the trunk and proceeded to tell them that he can take them to jail or confiscate my rifle. Guess what they chose? They get home and proceed to tell me what happened and I'm on the phone to the town police chief in two seconds. Here is the best part, my rifle wasn't turned into the local police department and there is no record of him confiscating it either. I had to get a private investigator that was a friend of my father involved. A month later two local cops were fired. Apparently this wasn't the first time they pulled something like this.

The US is the only free country I know of that citizens are afraid of their government, not the other way around.

 

 

 

That's really shitty there!

 

I am afraid we may be seeing a "accept what you can get" attitude in hiring new police officers.

This could be due to the economy, politics, or sunspots for all I know.

 

No one should EVER have to fear the above situation!

And it pisses me off that it seems to be occurring more and more often.

(Hell, I'm getting off into a rant here...)

[bigmedicinewolf 0]

If it is not a lack of knowledge on the part of the American citizens, would it be more accurate to say that it is a lack of conviction? If we are well aware of our rights but we refuse to stand up for them when they are trampled, then that is a lack of courage. That charge is far worse than ignorance. There are many on this forum who speak of bravery and courage in the future if their rights were threatened, but how many would do so today if a police officer were to treat them the very same way as the OP? It starts now. We should fight everyone who tries to subjugate us. Not just the terrorist or the corrupt politician but the corrupt police officer as well. Our own corrupt law enforcement agencies and local politicians are more of a threat to our freedom and liberty than some illiterate Islamic fundamentalist in a third world toilet 5,000 miles away.

[Bayoupiper 738]

If it is not a lack of knowledge on the part of the American citizens, would it be more accurate to say that it is a lack of conviction? If we are well aware of our rights but we refuse to stand up for them when they are trampled, then that is a lack of courage. That charge is far worse than ignorance. There are many on this forum who speak of bravery and courage in the future if their rights were threatened, but how many would do so today if a police officer were to treat them the very same way as the OP? It starts now. We should fight everyone who tries to subjugate us. Not just the terrorist or the corrupt politician but the corrupt police officer as well. Our own corrupt law enforcement agencies and local politicians are more of a threat to our freedom and liberty than some illiterate Islamic fundamentalist in a third world toilet 5,000 miles away.

 

 

 

 

Don't be so quick to paint all law enforcement with such a broad brush!

 

All LEOs swear to uphold and defend the US Constitution, and their state constitutions.

 

Now whether they all know exactly what that means is up for debate, but many do.

 

 

There are worlds of difference between what happened to vitamink and what happened to grendelz!

 

One was a corrupt piece of shit with a badge that is thankfully off the force.

The other could have been either a really anal cop, or a well intentioned one that has forgotten about "the road to hell".....

[Surly 11]

If it is not a lack of knowledge on the part of the American citizens, would it be more accurate to say that it is a lack of conviction? If we are well aware of our rights but we refuse to stand up for them when they are trampled, then that is a lack of courage. That charge is far worse than ignorance. There are many on this forum who speak of bravery and courage in the future if their rights were threatened, but how many would do so today if a police officer were to treat them the very same way as the OP? It starts now. We should fight everyone who tries to subjugate us. Not just the terrorist or the corrupt politician but the corrupt police officer as well. Our own corrupt law enforcement agencies and local politicians are more of a threat to our freedom and liberty than some illiterate Islamic fundamentalist in a third world toilet 5,000 miles away.

 

 

 

 

Don't be so quick to paint all law enforcement with such a broad brush!

 

All LEOs swear to uphold and defend the US Constitution, and their state constitutions.

 

Now whether they all know exactly what that means is up for debate, but many do.

 

 

There are worlds of difference between what happened to vitamink and what happened to grendelz!

 

One was a corrupt piece of shit with a badge that is thankfully off the force.

The other could have been either a really anal cop, or a well intentioned one that has forgotten about "the road to hell".....

 

Go easy on Leonard. Most cop haters don't know any of them personally and they always shoot off at the mouth about going out in a blaze of glory. Keyboard commandos anyway.

[bigmedicinewolf 0]

Will, you are correct. There are elements within law enforcement agencies that represent the finest characteristics of the American patriot. Unfortunately, in the case of law enforcement as a whole, a few bad apples do ruin the bunch. The Fraternal Order of Police has supported gun control legislation in the past and I don't see any reason why they won't again in the future. All this is done in the name of public safety. The FOP is currently lobbying Congress to pass legislation that would allow off duty and retired LEO's to carry concealed firearms without having to obtain a CCW. This further illustrates that many LEO's view themselves as above the laws the "little people" must obey. I agree that within any group there are those individuals that defy the norm; however, the majority of political organizations that assert they speak for LEO's are constantly seeking to expand rights and protections for LEO's at the expense of the average citizen.

[bigmedicinewolf 0]

I hope that you are not accusing me of being a cop hater. I know many police officers personally. I also have direct contact with those individuals currently pursuing criminal justice degrees and will be filling the positions of leadership within law enforcement agencies across the country. The instructors of both the traditional 2 year degree programs for students already accepted into the academy and the 4 year bachelor's degree program have quite a distorted view of not only the Constitution and its importance to the American legal system but the role of law enforcement in America. In addition, my aunt served as the chief of police in the city where I grew up for over 20 years. I have personally witnessed the kind of corruption that can exist in a local police agency. I can only attest to anecdotal evidence that I have personally witnessed, but it is overwhelming and more than enough to base my opinion upon.

[grendelz 61]

I agree there is alot of good LEO out there, but its come to the hire anybody to fill positions mentality that runs rampant in the US. I almost believe that that there is 2 types of Officer. One who honestly believes in what he is doing and wants to help his/her community. Second, some one who wants to get back at the world for his own failures.

just my 2 cents.

[152dbs 0]

wow, reading this thread i feel completely insulted. a few people that posted makes fellow LEOs jaded and makes us view society as "US vs THEM". we have to take care of people that curse us when we take their "little boy" to jail for dealing drugs or robbery, but then we have to rush to their aid when they are the victim as well. ive had my truck searched before while in TX while i was their hunting. they may have seen my concealed firearm because either the wind exposed it or it was poking out a little. big deal, im just glad they were doing their jobs. i couldve been some nut with a pistol that was going to kill someone, who knows.

 

i agree it could be labeled as "fishing" but i can obtain a CCW permit and own stolen firearms. its not a stretch.

 

some people need to see it from this side sometime.

[SOPMOD 254]

There is no "side" there is only right and wrong.

 

The Highest Law In The Land is the Constitution/BOR,violating someone's 5th Amendment rights should get a transgressor thrown in a Federal Gulag till his clothes come back into style....

[152dbs 0]

i agree there SHOULD be no side. but LEOs get grouped up. if 1 does wrong somehow i get tossed in with him. all of society doesnt get grouped w/ ted bundy. shouldve been handled differently. if the OP wants to get the officers addressed, he should talk with their direct supervisor.

 

and its not LEOs that are the gunhaters, its the politicians above us.

[grendelz 61]

wow, reading this thread i feel completely insulted. a few people that posted makes fellow LEOs jaded and makes us view society as "US vs THEM". we have to take care of people that curse us when we take their "little boy" to jail for dealing drugs or robbery, but then we have to rush to their aid when they are the victim as well. ive had my truck searched before while in TX while i was their hunting. they may have seen my concealed firearm because either the wind exposed it or it was poking out a little. big deal, im just glad they were doing their jobs. i couldve been some nut with a pistol that was going to kill someone, who knows.

 

i agree it could be labeled as "fishing" but i can obtain a CCW permit and own stolen firearms. its not a stretch.

 

some people need to see it from this side sometime.

INSULTED?? DO YOU WANT TO BE INSULTED. WHEN I MOVED TO NORTH CAROLINA I WAS PULLED OVER AN AVERAGE OF 4 OR 5 TIMES A WEEK! LAST YEAR I WAS PULLED OVER AND SAT IN THE FRONT SEAT OF A DRUG SQUAD MEMBERS CAR WHILE HE INTERROGATED ME ABOUT MY GANG AFFILIATION. HE OFFERED TO LOOK OUT FOR ME IF I HELPED HIM OUT????? I GET PULLED OVER AN AVERAGE OF 4 TO 5 TIMES A WEEK BY THE SAME SON OF A BITCH OFFICERS. THE INTERESING PART IS I KNOW ALOT OF OFFICERS ON THE SAME FORCE AND ALL THEY CAN DO IS NOTHING! I'VE BEEN A GUN COLLECTOR SINCE I WAS 21, I HAVE A CCW AND YES I TAKE MY 2ND AMMENDMENT RIGHTS SERIOUSLY. THERE ARE ALOT OF ANGRY CITIZENS OUT THERE BECAUSE OF BAD COPS. IT ONLY TAKES ONE BAD INCIDENT TO MAKE YOU JADED. LIKE I SAID BEFORE LAW ENFORCEMENT TEND TO TREAT US AS CRIMINALS BEFORE THEY TREAT US AS CITIZENS. BY THE WAY, I TOOK CARE OF BEING PULLED OVER ON MY OWN. WHEN I BOUGHT A NEW CAR I PUT ONE OF THOSE "THIN BLUE LINE" STICKER IN MY BACK WINSHIELD AND A LICENSE PLATE. HAVEN'T BEEN PULLED OVER SINCE.

[madmax4x4 68]

is it time to move the thread to political discussions section yet

[Gibbles 23]

I have never had an issue like this in Utah yet... and if I ever do I have My lawer on speed dial, Mitch Vilos.

He wrote a book on Utah gun law, it comes with a business card and everything. (sold at every gun store here in utah, and he updates it every year)

 

If I ever had an officer tell me he will take my gun or take me to jail, I would just tell him you better take me to jail, while I whip out the cell and call Mr. Vilos...

[Bayoupiper 738]

I agree there is alot of good LEO out there, but its come to the hire anybody to fill positions mentality that runs rampant in the US. I almost believe that that there is 2 types of Officer. One who honestly believes in what he is doing and wants to help his/her community. Second, some one who wants to get back at the world for his own failures.

just my 2 cents.

 

 

 

.....I was going to say something about good cops.........but that avatar...........................

[Bayoupiper 738]

I hope that you are not accusing me of being a cop hater. I know many police officers personally. I also have direct contact with those individuals currently pursuing criminal justice degrees and will be filling the positions of leadership within law enforcement agencies across the country. The instructors of both the traditional 2 year degree programs for students already accepted into the academy and the 4 year bachelor's degree program have quite a distorted view of not only the Constitution and its importance to the American legal system but the role of law enforcement in America. In addition, my aunt served as the chief of police in the city where I grew up for over 20 years. I have personally witnessed the kind of corruption that can exist in a local police agency. I can only attest to anecdotal evidence that I have personally witnessed, but it is overwhelming and more than enough to base my opinion upon.

 

 

 

 

I'd be real interested in your aunt's take on this.

 

I am sure it would be fascinating and much different than the current political clime suggests.

[Bayoupiper 738]

is it time to move the thread to political discussions section yet

 

 

Not really.

 

We seem to be keeping this one fairly civil.

 

 

 

So far.....

[152dbs 0]

wow, reading this thread i feel completely insulted. a few people that posted makes fellow LEOs jaded and makes us view society as "US vs THEM". we have to take care of people that curse us when we take their "little boy" to jail for dealing drugs or robbery, but then we have to rush to their aid when they are the victim as well. ive had my truck searched before while in TX while i was their hunting. they may have seen my concealed firearm because either the wind exposed it or it was poking out a little. big deal, im just glad they were doing their jobs. i couldve been some nut with a pistol that was going to kill someone, who knows.

 

i agree it could be labeled as "fishing" but i can obtain a CCW permit and own stolen firearms. its not a stretch.

 

some people need to see it from this side sometime.

INSULTED?? DO YOU WANT TO BE INSULTED. WHEN I MOVED TO NORTH CAROLINA I WAS PULLED OVER AN AVERAGE OF 4 OR 5 TIMES A WEEK! LAST YEAR I WAS PULLED OVER AND SAT IN THE FRONT SEAT OF A DRUG SQUAD MEMBERS CAR WHILE HE INTERROGATED ME ABOUT MY GANG AFFILIATION. HE OFFERED TO LOOK OUT FOR ME IF I HELPED HIM OUT????? I GET PULLED OVER AN AVERAGE OF 4 TO 5 TIMES A WEEK BY THE SAME SON OF A BITCH OFFICERS. THE INTERESING PART IS I KNOW ALOT OF OFFICERS ON THE SAME FORCE AND ALL THEY CAN DO IS NOTHING! I'VE BEEN A GUN COLLECTOR SINCE I WAS 21, I HAVE A CCW AND YES I TAKE MY 2ND AMMENDMENT RIGHTS SERIOUSLY. THERE ARE ALOT OF ANGRY CITIZENS OUT THERE BECAUSE OF BAD COPS. IT ONLY TAKES ONE BAD INCIDENT TO MAKE YOU JADED. LIKE I SAID BEFORE LAW ENFORCEMENT TEND TO TREAT US AS CRIMINALS BEFORE THEY TREAT US AS CITIZENS. BY THE WAY, I TOOK CARE OF BEING PULLED OVER ON MY OWN. WHEN I BOUGHT A NEW CAR I PUT ONE OF THOSE "THIN BLUE LINE" STICKER IN MY BACK WINSHIELD AND A LICENSE PLATE. HAVEN'T BEEN PULLED OVER SINCE.

 

caps lock. if u were getting harrassed constantly, you shouldve handled it. talk to their sgt, lt, capt....work your way up. but dont group me in with them.

 

go look at other threads and forums, people always bitch and whine that a cop did this or that. we have SOPs. get rid of the bad apples and dont group us all in one lump.

[DogMan 2,343]

i agree there SHOULD be no side. but LEOs get grouped up. if 1 does wrong somehow i get tossed in with him.

 

First of all, I don't really buy this "good cop, bad cop" stuff. I don't think every cop has a little devil or a little angel sitting on his shoulder. If a cop spends years doing nothing but good and then he does one thing that is particularly henious, is that a good cop or a bad cop? If a so-called "good cop" sees a so-called bad cop do something wrong and doesn't report it, is he still a good cop? My point is there are ten thousand different degrees of good and bad in every cop just as in every person. The reason you get grouped together is because you protect each other and I don't care if you deny it or not. The "good cops" turn the other cheek on their bad bretheren and then still profess to be good, but they are not. How often do here about a charge against an officer (that is sustained) that was initiated by another officer? It ain't often my friend. 99 times out of a hundred it is from a citizen even though the particular misdeed was often witnessed by several other officers. So it is you that lump yourselves together. You know, I know it, and everybody else knows it. If you happen to be one of the few, the minority, that can claim to be squeeky clean, then good for you and I commend you, but I live in the real world.

[Gibbles 23]

I should note my one and only experience with a LEO while packin, My friend got stuck and he gave me a ride into town so I could get my truck...

When he pulled up the first thing I did was hand him my DL and my CCW permit, then announced that I was armed, he just kinda nodded his head and did not seem to care one way or another, my friend and I were out hunting and I had my S-12 with 20rd drum and a bunch of AGP stick mags and my 10/22, I let him know what I had in the case and he was fine with that, he never looked at the serials or opened the case or the bag with the mags and ammo, he just sat the case into his gun storage area in the back of his silverado, cleaned up the passenger seat and put his gear into the cage, I sat up front with him and he never disarmed me.

 

He only ran my DL to check for warrants before he cleaned out his front seat.

[grendelz 61]

wow, reading this thread i feel completely insulted. a few people that posted makes fellow LEOs jaded and makes us view society as "US vs THEM". we have to take care of people that curse us when we take their "little boy" to jail for dealing drugs or robbery, but then we have to rush to their aid when they are the victim as well. ive had my truck searched before while in TX while i was their hunting. they may have seen my concealed firearm because either the wind exposed it or it was poking out a little. big deal, im just glad they were doing their jobs. i couldve been some nut with a pistol that was going to kill someone, who knows.

 

i agree it could be labeled as "fishing" but i can obtain a CCW permit and own stolen firearms. its not a stretch.

 

some people need to see it from this side sometime.

INSULTED?? DO YOU WANT TO BE INSULTED. WHEN I MOVED TO NORTH CAROLINA I WAS PULLED OVER AN AVERAGE OF 4 OR 5 TIMES A WEEK! LAST YEAR I WAS PULLED OVER AND SAT IN THE FRONT SEAT OF A DRUG SQUAD MEMBERS CAR WHILE HE INTERROGATED ME ABOUT MY GANG AFFILIATION. HE OFFERED TO LOOK OUT FOR ME IF I HELPED HIM OUT????? I GET PULLED OVER AN AVERAGE OF 4 TO 5 TIMES A WEEK BY THE SAME SON OF A BITCH OFFICERS. THE INTERESING PART IS I KNOW ALOT OF OFFICERS ON THE SAME FORCE AND ALL THEY CAN DO IS NOTHING! I'VE BEEN A GUN COLLECTOR SINCE I WAS 21, I HAVE A CCW AND YES I TAKE MY 2ND AMMENDMENT RIGHTS SERIOUSLY. THERE ARE ALOT OF ANGRY CITIZENS OUT THERE BECAUSE OF BAD COPS. IT ONLY TAKES ONE BAD INCIDENT TO MAKE YOU JADED. LIKE I SAID BEFORE LAW ENFORCEMENT TEND TO TREAT US AS CRIMINALS BEFORE THEY TREAT US AS CITIZENS. BY THE WAY, I TOOK CARE OF BEING PULLED OVER ON MY OWN. WHEN I BOUGHT A NEW CAR I PUT ONE OF THOSE "THIN BLUE LINE" STICKER IN MY BACK WINSHIELD AND A LICENSE PLATE. HAVEN'T BEEN PULLED OVER SINCE.

 

caps lock. if u were getting harrassed constantly, you shouldve handled it. talk to their sgt, lt, capt....work your way up. but dont group me in with them.

 

go look at other threads and forums, people always bitch and whine that a cop did this or that. we have SOPs. get rid of the bad apples and dont group us all in one lump.

I don't group all LEO together. If you read my post it says I know several officers. About reporting them, been there, done that. A good cop will still cover for a bad cop

out of a sense of brotherhood. Just look at the name of the FOP: Fraternal Order of Policeman. HMMM? Nor do I WHINE AND BITCH about it. I vented, hence the CAPS LOCK. lol sorry. But don't take it as a hatred of all police. But, there is alot of cops who abuse their position while their fellow officers do nothing about it. I will give you an example: there is a local cop who was found to have child porn on his computer. Never charged or fired. He resigned a little bit afterwards. again he was never charged. How do I know? I knew him personally. I asked a friend that works in the state bureau of investigation about this case as they were the ones who siezed his computer. A certain local chief intervened. Go figure.

 

All I want to say is LEOs should always treat you as a citizen first not as a criminal.

[Stansplace 414]

Wow, seeing this shit from other states really pisses me off. I live in NC, and have a CCW and if the cops pull you here, all you have to do is announce your CCW and say you are armed. They can't even ask you where the weapon is by law. All they can do is ask to see your CCW. This is dependant on the circumstances of course. This is assuming a regular traffic stop. Hell in this state you can open carry and as long as you tell the officer when they approach then you are covered. You are not required to surrender your weapon either. I used to allow the officers to "run the numbers" if they asked until I got my CCW. Now I don't surrender my weapon or even tell them where it is under any circumstances. My replies are as follows: When approached, "Officer I have a Concealed Weapons Permit and I am armed." Then after the license check etc.. they usually ask "Do you mind if I search your vehicle?" I reply "yes I do mind and no you may not". I usually get a "why are you hiding something" and I reply "No officer, it's my right to refuse your search" And then it is "have a nice day sir." That's why I love this state.

[bigmedicinewolf 0]

You couldn't be more correct Dogman. Here in northern Nevada we had an instance of that about 2 months ago. Two police officers pulled over a vehicle that they suspected of being driven by a driver under the influence, when they approached the vehicle they were shocked to find one of their fellow officers. They proceeded to remove him from his vehicle and placed him in the back of their patrol car. After four hours had elapsed, and much water, they administered a field sobriety test. I ask this question, if that had been you they pulled over for suspicion of DUI, would they have been as forgiving?

[Reverendfranz 160]

[bigmedicinewolf 0]

Excellent point ReverendFranz. No further questions your honor.

[GPalmer 1]

Not an illegal search if it is in plain view.

 

And ya have to admit that orange S-12 does draw the eye.

It wasn't the "seeing" them or examining them, it was the "running the serial numbers without probable cause of a crime" that the court found was an "illegal search".

No, I've done this thread with law enforcement recently. It's perfectly legal for them to run the serial numbers on any weapons they legally have in their possession. In this case, the Glock was seen and so was the Saiga so they were legally in the officer's possession and it's perfectly legal to run them. Thread here...

 

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1055566

[nalioth 405]

Not an illegal search if it is in plain view.

 

And ya have to admit that orange S-12 does draw the eye.

It wasn't the "seeing" them or examining them, it was the "running the serial numbers without probable cause of a crime" that the court found was an "illegal search".

No, I've done this thread with law enforcement recently. It's perfectly legal for them to run the serial numbers on any weapons they legally have in their possession. In this case, the Glock was seen and so was the Saiga so they were legally in the officer's possession and it's perfectly legal to run them. Thread here...

 

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1055566

The Supreme Court disagrees.

[SCBOWLES 0]

hey all LEO in georgia be nice to the guy in the black dodge dually. He really is a decent guy trust me.

[SOPMOD 254]

i agree there SHOULD be no side. but LEOs get grouped up. if 1 does wrong somehow i get tossed in with him. all of society doesnt get grouped w/ ted bundy. shouldve been handled differently. if the OP wants to get the officers addressed, he should talk with their direct supervisor.

 

and its not LEOs that are the gunhaters, its the politicians above us.

 

 

Azrial's genuine disdain for the above events show that you are right but for every officer who sees his duty to this civilization clearly there are several more who follow the herd and have no problem invading our privacy and personal sanctity.How many officers do you know that never handle their duty weapon except for qualifying and arrests?Thise are the same guys who give the FOP it's majority vote for making pubic statements against CCW and modern semi-auto firearms for civilians and they are the majority and idealogically opposed to at least 4 of our BOR enumerations.

 

I would doubt that any gun loving,avid shooter who is also a police officer on this board agrees with the anti firearms SOP and culture of most agencies but they are a tiny minority and by the same token they buy into the bias spoon fed to us on other issues and step right up to search vehicles,shake down citizens for ID and itinerary without PC and think a dumb kid with dark window tint or a marijuana pipe in his bookbag is worthy of as many agbuses as they can get away with in today's police state culture.

 

Constables and their mission in society is a direct guage of a civilization's fitness and they have been manipulated and played and hand selected to be in enmity with whatever group of citizens they are "sicked on" like a pack of attack dogs as a type of insurance against upsetting the corporate/political apple cart.

 

Ever wonder why driving without private corporate sold car insurance carries a larger fine than speeding(which endangers people's lives)?Corporate corruption of our legal system and thereby our Law Enforcement Agencies

[GPalmer 1]

Not an illegal search if it is in plain view.

 

And ya have to admit that orange S-12 does draw the eye.

It wasn't the "seeing" them or examining them, it was the "running the serial numbers without probable cause of a crime" that the court found was an "illegal search".

No, I've done this thread with law enforcement recently. It's perfectly legal for them to run the serial numbers on any weapons they legally have in their possession. In this case, the Glock was seen and so was the Saiga so they were legally in the officer's possession and it's perfectly legal to run them. Thread here...

 

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1055566

The Supreme Court disagrees.

It's not a search so the link has absolutely no meaning. Read the thread, it discusses the inapplicability that decision.

[dannyfantasy2000 68]

If you live in an Authoritarian Society and vote to give ANY government agency more power then you have essentially signed your rights away.A "Right Wing" person resents being hassled about bibles and guns and a "Left Wing" person resents being hassled about substances and pornography and both of them keep getting played "Left vs Right" making the intrusive Authoritarian system bigger and stronger.

 

There is no Left or Right just Authoritarian or Libertarian...

 

Defend the pothead's right to grow and smoke whatever he wants and you get your gun rights back in the process...

 

Amen!