TR Young 175 Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 http://v4.beta.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewI...?Item=130543788 ....what a joke. :rolleyes: :haha: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moe Zambeak 53 Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 "Current bid- $1375" A fool and his money are soon parted. :lolol: :lolol: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
D-H 20 Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 1450 for a non converted saiga. Wait, what? No seriously, what? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR Young 175 Posted June 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 I sent an email to the seller asking him what parts make the gun 922r compliant, because of the 12 rounder he's selling with it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 LMFAO, the red dot is specifically designed for crossbows... Think it'll handle the S12's recoil Truglo TG8350b http://www.truglosights.com/content/produc...d_dot_sight.asp Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 That boy's been outside without his hat a little too much . . . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mscottrogers 56 Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 If this sells I'm putting my saiga on there. Thats just sad that they can sell stuff like that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
unusedusername 3 Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 "Battle ready" on ebay means "cheap garbage"... Perhaps it means the same thing on gunbroker? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Psssniper 0 Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 but......... but........ its battle ready!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 Funny and Sad, all at the same time... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 Stuff like this really REALLY makes me wonder what the worth is of my saiga12 is... still sad. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Blackthorne 2 Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 It is at the current bid price due to a lot of shill bidding. Notice that one guy has placed several bids, all on June 7, and the last bid falling just short of the reserve. Also, he has a whopping 1 rating for past bidding. So, it makes it appear that the shotgun has a lot of interest in the Gunbroker community and that it is worth at least $1,375.00. I hate that crap. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunboy69 50 Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 I would like to know how much they pay to work in their custom shop? Looks like an easy gig. Lets see....can you tighten allen screws.....you're hired! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aresv 49 Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 but......... but........ its battle ready!! In every battle there's a winner and a loser. They didn't specify which side it was ready for. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
clifton 354 Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 I dont think there real bids either Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 That's my build, Bitches!!!! Nah, I'm just kiddin'! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeere7296 1 Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 I've seen his "Builds" before, he advertised a Saiga-410 the other day, just an ordinary 410 with a aftermarket stock, non-converted and it was somewhere between $800 to $900 if I remember right..... I recognized his guns because he uses the same background on his other stuff Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR Young 175 Posted June 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 He still hasn't answered my email about what parts make him 922r compliant.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 He still hasn't answered my email about what parts make him 922r compliant.... He probably started one one of the 5-10 "is my gun compliant" threads we will get today...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Elkhound 91 Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 I think the shill bidding on Gunbroker is getting worse and worse. A lot of "NR" or "1" bidders who take the item right up to the reserve. What a coincidence. WJ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 hey, itd be a fine little gun if it were in a legal config, and the price was RIGHT, which it is not. WJ - yehp, gotta love the internet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RockHoundTX 10 Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 ???? While I agree that the seller is a complete wack for selling a non-converted gun as "battle ready" (and hopefully there is a special place in hell for shill bidders), I am a little confused as to why 922R is an issue. A stock Saiga 12 has 13 parts. The Surefire Mag is listed pretty much every-where as US Made and thus 3 parts. As such, you can swap out the Russian mag or the Surefire interchangably with no violation of 922R as long as there are no "added" parts like pistol grip or flash hider (and from the picture there are not any). This is no different than being able to put an MD20 drum on a stock S12 and it still being legal. Am I missing something? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR Young 175 Posted June 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 (edited) ???? While I agree that the seller is a complete wack for selling a non-converted gun as "battle ready" (and hopefully there is a special place in hell for shill bidders), I am a little confused as to why 922R is an issue. A stock Saiga 12 has 13 parts. The Surefire Mag is listed pretty much every-where as US Made and thus 3 parts. As such, you can swap out the Russian mag or the Surefire interchangably with no violation of 922R as long as there are no "added" parts like pistol grip or flash hider (and from the picture there are not any). This is no different than being able to put an MD20 drum on a stock S12 and it still being legal. Am I missing something? No, a stock Saiga 12 typically has 15 parts (unless the barrel is not threaded, in which case it would be 14, but his IS threaded). Here is a good web page for you. You can uncheck "pistol grip" to get the base count down from 16 to 15 as the Saiga does NOT get imported with one. From the pictures, the only visible 922r compliant part is the new forearm. That's 1 part, dropping the count to 14. If you plug in the high-cap mag that he is hawking with the gun, that is 3 parts, dropping the total to 11. That spells I-L-L-E-G-A-L in the 922r compliance book. Of course, the only reason that 922r even comes into play with this particular Saiga is BECAUSE he is offering the high-cap mag. If he weren't, the gun would be fine. However, he is setting up any future buyer to be illegal due to the mag he is selling with the gun. Edited June 9, 2009 by TR Young Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 No, a stock Saiga 12 typically has 15 parts (unless the barrel is not threaded, in which case it would be 14, but his IS threaded). A stock Saiga shotgun w/o a threaded muzzle has 13 countable parts. A stock Saiga shotgun with a threaded muzzle has 14 countable parts. A stock Saiga rifle has 14 countable parts. Where are you coming up with 15? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deussne 38 Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 UMM I have that picture saved in my saiga 12 file. and I have it in there for a few months now... I wonder why... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 (edited) I have to wonder, he list it as having a TAPCO G2 FCG, yet its not converted... Hmmmm... Lets put a half decent FCG in it, and still use that shitty linkage. That's like the proverbial casting of pearls before swine ............................... This Battle Ready Saiga 12 shotgun with 19" Barrel came out of our custom shop ready to run! We have just made a few of these, please call or email for availability. It comes with: Saiga Tactical Stock with adjustable cheek piece Saiga 12 Gauge Front Tri Rail System = 1 SGM Tactical - Rear Picatinny Rail Command Arms Verticle Grip Tapco G2 Trigger Group = 3 TRUGLO TG8350B Multi-Reticle/Dual Color Red Dot Sight HELLFIGHTER HX12- 6V-150 Lumen Tactical Light HELLFIGHTER Heavy Duty Rail Mount Surefire 12 Round Magazine = 3 Comes in original box with STD Factory 5 round magazine, cleaning gear, oil can and factory paperwork For more information vist our site: www.lucycreekarms.com14 -7 = 7... Compliant.Of course there is what some hold questionable, i.e. the possible issue of using mag parts to meet compliance, &, whether or not the thread protector is a Muzzle Attachment and constitutes a 15th part for compliance. Chili, We several guns that have over 700 rounds through them with the TRUGLO sight and it works fine. As far as compliance we add the SureFire Front Handguard, Tapco G2 Trigger, American Thread Protector and Surefire Mags. More than Complient. Some of our guns also have Tapco Collapsible or Ace Folding stocks as well. Lucy Creek Arms 7696 Hwy 281 North Lampasas, TX 76550 512-525-5931 Tim Miller, Owner <a href="http://www.lucycreekarms.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.lucycreekarms.com Certified SIG-SAUER Armorer Certified NRA Firearms Instructor Certified Texas DPS CHL Instructor Class 3 NFA Dealer "The highest obligation and privilege of citizenship is bearing arms." -- General George S. Patton Jr. "FREEDOM ISN'T FREE!" --Anonymous-- From: ChileRelleno414 <user2user@gunbroker.com> To: lucycreekarms.com <lucycreekarms@yahoo.com> Sent: Sunday, June 7, 2009 10:08:08 PM Subject: Question regarding GunBroker.com Item 130543788 A message has been sent to you by a user of GunBroker.com, please scroll down to the MESSAGE FROM USER section below to read the text. THE "FROM" NAME ON THIS EMAIL IS THE SENDING USER'S GUNBROKER.COM USERNAME. REGARDING ITEM: 130543788 Saiga 12 Battle Ready Shotgun NIB http://v4.beta.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewI...?Item=130543788 --- begin message --- Do you really think that that TruGlo TG8350 is going to stand up to the S12s recoil? It is designed for use with crossbows. Also, the way this firearm is currently configured, is it technically illegal under 922r to insert the Surefire 12rnd mag? So, you selling accessories for a "Battle Ready" shotgun (/me snickers) that are wholly incompatible with, and illegal to operate the weapon with, as sold. I could care less that your price is outrageous, get what the suckers will pay. Sincerely, Chile Edited June 10, 2009 by ChileRelleno Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR Young 175 Posted June 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 No, a stock Saiga 12 typically has 15 parts (unless the barrel is not threaded, in which case it would be 14, but his IS threaded). A stock Saiga shotgun w/o a threaded muzzle has 13 countable parts. A stock Saiga shotgun with a threaded muzzle has 14 countable parts. A stock Saiga rifle has 14 countable parts. Where are you coming up with 15? This is what I come up with. Correct me if I am mistaken please, because I thought I had it pretty well understood... 1 - Receiver 2 - Barrel 3 - Mounting Block 4 - Muzzle Attachment (with threaded barrelSaiga) 5 - Bolt 6 - Bolt Carrier 7 - Gas Piston 8 - Trigger 9 - Hammer 10 - Disconnector 11 - Butt Stock 12 - Forearm Handguard 13 - Mag body 14 - Follower 15 - Floorplate Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 No, a stock Saiga 12 typically has 15 parts (unless the barrel is not threaded, in which case it would be 14, but his IS threaded). A stock Saiga shotgun w/o a threaded muzzle has 13 countable parts. A stock Saiga shotgun with a threaded muzzle has 14 countable parts. A stock Saiga rifle has 14 countable parts. Where are you coming up with 15? This is what I come up with. Correct me if I am mistaken please, because I thought I had it pretty well understood... 1 - Receiver 2 - Barrel 3 - Mounting Block 4 - Muzzle Attachment (with threaded barrelSaiga) 5 - Bolt 6 - Bolt Carrier 7 - Gas Piston 8 - Trigger 9 - Hammer 10 - Disconnector 11 - Butt Stock 12 - Forearm Handguard 13 - Mag body 14 - Follower 15 - Floorplate The exalted revenuers have decreed that Saiga shotguns do not have 'mounting blocks (aka barrel trunnions)' 14 parts in a Saiga rifle and a Saiga shotty w/threaded muzzle. 13 parts in a Saiga shotty with a non threaded muzzle Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RockHoundTX 10 Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 I thought that we had completely beat this subject to death 2+ years ago . It looks like it keeps popping up on a regular basis . At that time the consensus was that a Saiga 12 had only 13 parts. There was no barrel trunnion and even though the barrel was threaded the "thread protector" on the Saiga was NOT a barrel attachment. I distinctly remember that the MD Arms website specifically said that a MD20 could be used interchangeably in a stock Saiga 12. I just checked the MD Arms website and the FAQ section has been changed from what it used to be but I am certain that it used to say that If all else fails I guess you could just a) remove the thread protector (if your belief is that the BATF interprets it as a barrel attachment), or add a Tromix shark brake and all would be good. All of my primary S12s are fully converted so mostly this is a mute point for me. However, I do have one unconverted 24" S12 that I lend to friends sometimes for "hunting and other purposes". I have also lent them my MD20 just for the fun of it with the full understanding that it was completely legal to use with the stock gun. I guess I will just throw on a Tromix or Chaos brake and not worry about it. But I have to admit that a S12 24" with Tromix SB and MD20 drum would probably be about as butt-ugly, un-gangly, and heavy as a shotty you could get without going completely mall-ninja Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR Young 175 Posted June 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 The exalted revenuers have decreed that Saiga shotguns do not have 'mounting blocks (aka barrel trunnions)' 14 parts in a Saiga rifle and a Saiga shotty w/threaded muzzle. 13 parts in a Saiga shotty with a non threaded muzzle Ah, I appreciate that! I didn't realize that the shotguns didn't have what is considered a barrel trunnion. Thanks, nalioth. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.