AK Counterfeiting Expose on Russian TV

[BrutalGardener 205]

I watched this investigative report on Russian TV (NTV America) yesterday. It was about how IzhMash and MK are getting ripped off by all the unlicensed (counterfeit) AKs being produced out there.

 

I didn't catch the beginning, but when I jumped in, they had this Russian journalist with a hidden camera walking into what he thought was Arsenal Inc's offices inside some Vegas office suite. It was just a mailbox place and the owner was unable to tell him where Arsenal really operates from, but gave a phone number. So, he called Arsenal, asking if he could interview some one in charge and got the run-around.

 

They then singled out Arsenal Inc as the major counterfeiter in the US, showed how widely available their guns are (went to different gun stores around Vegas) and bitched about how the US government is doing nothing about this, while giving the Russians shit about all the counterfeit Hollywood movie DVDs you can buy in Russia. They implied that Arsenal Inc was also connected to the US government in some way.

 

In the next segment, they were at some international weapons show and followed some IzhMash reps going over to Arsenal's booth in order to confront their reps. The sole guy at the Arsenal booth claimed that he was just a lackey and didn't know any thing, including where the other reps had went. They also talked about how Arsenal sold almost 70,000 of their counterfeit AKs to India.

 

The way that the Russians made it look, both Arsenal of Bulgaria and Arsenal of Las Vegas, Nevada are very, very shady operations. They pretty much implied that they are ran by the Bulgarian mob.

 

The segment ended with a tour of IzhMash factory in Izhevsk, where MK and his son still work, along with Dragunov's son. MK said that he created this weapon solely for the purpose of defending the "Motherland" and that he never expected it to be so widely available outside of Russia and didn't seem to be very happy about it. They showed some IzhMash worker assembling AK's, including one woman assembling one in front of smiling, happy Hugo Chavez.

 

The narrator then claimed that all IzhMash AKs are practically (and lovingly) hand-made and are the finest AKs in the world and that there are never any defects, because everything gets checked and inspected several times, blah, blah.

 

The who thing did stink of your typical, Putin era Russian propaganda, but it definitely made me wonder about Arsenal and want to know more about them.

 

By the way, the report was filmed in 2006.

 

P.S. Do the Arsenal Saigas mean that IzhMash and Arsenal have kissed and made up since then?

Edited August 24, 2009 by SpetsnazGRU

[Nailbomb 10,221]

The narrator then claimed that all IzhMash AKs are practically (and lovingly) hand-made and are the finest AKs in the world and that there are never any defects, because everything gets checked and inspected several times, blah, blah.

 

The who thing did stink of your typical, Putin era Russian propaganda, but it definitely made me wonder about Arsenal and want to know more about them.

 

By the way, the report was filmed in 2006.

LOL, filmed befor vodka specials became all the rage...

[BrutalGardener 205]

The narrator then claimed that all IzhMash AKs are practically (and lovingly) hand-made and are the finest AKs in the world and that there are never any defects, because everything gets checked and inspected several times, blah, blah.

 

The who thing did stink of your typical, Putin era Russian propaganda, but it definitely made me wonder about Arsenal and want to know more about them.

 

By the way, the report was filmed in 2006.

LOL, filmed befor vodka specials became all the rage...

 

Hah! Yeah. It made me think and smirk about all those Saiga 12's with missing gas ports too.

[zenmetsu 17]

There is a difference between counterfeit and clone.

 

When you put the Izhmash stamp and "made in russia" on the side of an American made gun, it is a counterfeit. Otherwise, it is a clone.

 

If they are bitching about clones, then they can go F.O. but they have every reason to complain about counterfeit items.

[BrutalGardener 205]

There is a difference between counterfeit and clone.

 

When you put the Izhmash stamp and "made in russia" on the side of an American made gun, it is a counterfeit. Otherwise, it is a clone.

 

If they are bitching about clones, then they can go F.O. but they have every reason to complain about counterfeit items.

 

They seem to be upset that their design is being copied and mass-produced, sans any major changes, without permission and these guns are sold as "AK's". They talked about how they would not be allowed to manufacture AR clones in Russia without a license.

[zenmetsu 17]

There is a difference between counterfeit and clone.

 

When you put the Izhmash stamp and "made in russia" on the side of an American made gun, it is a counterfeit. Otherwise, it is a clone.

 

If they are bitching about clones, then they can go F.O. but they have every reason to complain about counterfeit items.

 

They seem to be upset that their design is being copied and mass-produced, sans any major changes, without permission and these guns are sold as "AK's". They talked about how they would not be allowed to manufacture AR clones in Russia without a license.

 

We should not be able to make AKs. They should be called AA-47s, or Avtomat Amerikanov. Same thing for ARs... Armalite should force other manufacturers to change their name and not use "AR".

[GregM1 241]

other than their logo not being there its about 90+% the same. thats a big amount. that is enough to call it a counterfeit.

 

 

** now that Arsenal of Vegas is using receivers made at Legion, i assume this may have been worked out.

Edited August 24, 2009 by GregM1

[sudaevpps43 31]

I find it hilarious every time the Russians complain about other countries making 'unlicensed' copies of their arms, when during the course of the cold war they shipped literally tens of millions of small arms to every corner of the world, not to mention that they also helped set up many of those same foreign factories that they are now bitching and moaning about making counterfeits. And trying to bring Mikhail Kalashnikov into it doesn't help their case one bit, since they have yet to give Kalashnikov the monetary compensation they know he's due. And their comments about other manufacturer's quality not being as good is just B.S. they spout to try to get more sales, though I don't blame them for that so much, since aside from oil, caviar, vodka, and books by suicidal novelists, the rest of the world isn't interested in buying anything else from Russia except their arms. Like the line in Lord of War goes, "One thing's for sure, no one was lining up to buy their cars.".

Edited August 24, 2009 by Frogfoot

[Azrial 1,091]

They need and want money. That is all there is to it.

 

They have no more chance in stopping this then Colt, Remington, Winchester, and Springfield have of getting compensation from the Chinese for copied products.

[Paulyski 2,227]

I don't blame them for that so much, since aside from oil, caviar, vodka, and books by suicidal novelists, the rest of the world isn't interested in buying anything else from Russia except their arms. Like the line in Lord of War goes, "One thing's for sure, no one was lining up to buy their cars.".

One of My favorite movies... Even though it's anti-gun.

I think I'll put it on now as I go to sleep so I can work tonight.

[zenmetsu 17]

I don't blame them for that so much, since aside from oil, caviar, vodka, and books by suicidal novelists, the rest of the world isn't interested in buying anything else from Russia except their arms. Like the line in Lord of War goes, "One thing's for sure, no one was lining up to buy their cars.".

One of My favorite movies... Even though it's anti-gun.

I think I'll put it on now as I go to sleep so I can work tonight.

 

 

Oooh... graveyard shift. That is brutal. I did that for 8 years straight. :/

[Azrial 1,091]

... Like the line in Lord of War goes, "One thing's for sure, no one was lining up to buy their cars.".

and the Lada was a bootleg copy of the 1966 Fiat 124 sedan.

[BrutalGardener 205]

... Like the line in Lord of War goes, "One thing's for sure, no one was lining up to buy their cars.".

and the Lada was a bootleg copy of the 1966 Fiat 124 sedan.

 

Actually, I believe that the deal with Fiat was official and that Fiat even helped the Soviets build the AvtoVAZ factory. Lada is one of the best selling cars of all time.

[janusthephoenix 24]

aside from oil, caviar, vodka, and books by suicidal novelists, the rest of the world isn't interested in buying anything else from Russia except their arms. Like the line in Lord of War goes, "One thing's for sure, no one was lining up to buy their cars.".

 

You forgot Russian mail order brides.

 

Wonder why they're not going after China for making Mak90s? Silly Russians.

 

Maybe they're attempting to copy the world famous American Frivolous Lawsuit?

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

[Vultite 57]

(knock knock knock) On Makc door's, Russian interviewer guy "So, what do you have to say about all the counterfeits running around on your website?!? YOU ARE THE PROBLEM WITH CRIME AND WHY RUSSIA SUX!!

[Azrial 1,091]

Actually, I believe that the deal with Fiat was official and that Fiat even helped the Soviets build the AvtoVAZ factory. Lada is one of the best selling cars of all time.

True, but when they helped them build it, it was a to be a Fiat factory, not a Lada factory.

 

As to Lada being one of the "best selling cars of all time" I would like to see/hear your reference on that.

[BrutalGardener 205]

Actually, I believe that the deal with Fiat was official and that Fiat even helped the Soviets build the AvtoVAZ factory. Lada is one of the best selling cars of all time.

True, but when they helped them build it, it was a to be a Fiat factory, not a Lada factory.

 

As to Lada being one of the "best selling cars of all time" I would like to see/hear your reference on that.

 

Here's a couple:

 

http://www.nissan.com.ph/corp_press_link5.html

http://www.orange.co.uk/cars/picturegaller...omvariable--%3E

 

Remembering how prolific they were all over the Second World and even their success in some Western European countries, I definitely tend to believe it.

[cellsworth 21]

... Like the line in Lord of War goes, "One thing's for sure, no one was lining up to buy their cars.".

and the Lada was a bootleg copy of the 1966 Fiat 124 sedan.

 

And remember how the Russians copied the B-29.

[Lone Star Arms 2,047]

I watched this investigative report on Russian TV (NTV America) yesterday. It was about how IzhMash and MK are getting ripped off by all the unlicensed (counterfeit) AKs being produced out there.

 

I didn't catch the beginning, but when I jumped in, they had this Russian journalist with a hidden camera walking into what he thought was Arsenal Inc's offices inside some Vegas office suite. It was just a mailbox place and the owner was unable to tell him where Arsenal really operates from, but gave a phone number. So, he called Arsenal, asking if he could interview some one in charge and got the run-around.

 

They then singled out Arsenal Inc as the major counterfeiter in the US, showed how widely available their guns are (went to different gun stores around Vegas) and bitched about how the US government is doing nothing about this, while giving the Russians shit about all the counterfeit Hollywood movie DVDs you can buy in Russia. They implied that Arsenal Inc was also connected to the US government in some way.

 

In the next segment, they were at some international weapons show and followed some IzhMash reps going over to Arsenal's booth in order to confront their reps. The sole guy at the Arsenal booth claimed that he was just a lackey and didn't know any thing, including where the other reps had went. They also talked about how Arsenal sold almost 70,000 of their counterfeit AKs to India.

 

The way that the Russians made it look, both Arsenal of Bulgaria and Arsenal of Las Vegas, Nevada are very, very shady operations. They pretty much implied that they are ran by the Bulgarian mob.

 

The segment ended with a tour of IzhMash factory in Izhevsk, where MK and his son still work, along with Dragunov's son. MK said that he created this weapon solely for the purpose of defending the "Motherland" and that he never expected it to be so widely available outside of Russia and didn't seem to be very happy about it. They showed some IzhMash worker assembling AK's, including one woman assembling one in front of smiling, happy Hugo Chavez.

 

The narrator then claimed that all IzhMash AKs are practically (and lovingly) hand-made and are the finest AKs in the world and that there are never any defects, because everything gets checked and inspected several times, blah, blah.

 

The who thing did stink of your typical, Putin era Russian propaganda, but it definitely made me wonder about Arsenal and want to know more about them.

 

By the way, the report was filmed in 2006.

 

P.S. Do the Arsenal Saigas mean that IzhMash and Arsenal have kissed and made up since then?

 

Perhaps after some investigation, the Russian journalists discovered that the AK design has no patent protection and has been copied and produced royalty free - all over the world - for decades. Perhaps they should investigate the Chinese, Egyptians, and Pakistanis as well.

 

Under the Soviets, mother Russia looked down its nose at imperialist practices like patents, trademarks, and trade names.

 

Does the expression - "a dollar short, and a day late" have an equivalent translation in Russian?

 

Also, I have to laugh about the hand made nature of Russian guns. While it is true that no two are exactly alike, that is not necessarily something to crow about. From the placement of the gas vents, to the length of the mag release paddles - Izhmash guns of the same model can vary greatly.

 

Were it not for the excellence and robustness of MK's AK design, the build quality of these rifles would be a joke in the world of modern manufacturing technology. Fortunately - the AK design allows plenty of wiggle room for shoddy workmanship, and careless assembly.

 

WS

[DLT 1,646]

Don't forget the Ural motorcycle they make which is basically a German WWII era BMW. Some of the parts even say BMW on them from the molds they copied and or stole.

[BrutalGardener 205]

Ok... I'll jump in on this "let's name something that the Soviets copied" game. How about the infamous MiG-15's engine, which was a copy of a shadily obtained British Rolls Royce engine? The Soviets couldn't produce an engine with the right balance of power and fuel efficiency at that time.

[DLT 1,646]

I'm curious, did the US ever pay Germany for the rocket technology we stole from them at the end of the WWII?

[Bean.223 365]

Sure, we let them live.

 

 

And +1 what Waffen said. The Russians are playing Johnny Come Lately and would LOVE to have some patents on the AK platform.........not gonna happen.

[Azrial 1,091]

Actually, I believe that the deal with Fiat was official and that Fiat even helped the Soviets build the AvtoVAZ factory. Lada is one of the best selling cars of all time.

True, but when they helped them build it, it was a to be a Fiat factory, not a Lada factory.

 

As to Lada being one of the "best selling cars of all time" I would like to see/hear your reference on that.

 

Here's a couple:...

... Remembering how prolific they were all over the Second World and even their success in some Western European countries, I definitely tend to believe it.

Well, when I think about it, I suppose there is something to be said for having a closed market. I wonder how many of their customers really had any other choice ...

[BrutalGardener 205]

Actually, I believe that the deal with Fiat was official and that Fiat even helped the Soviets build the AvtoVAZ factory. Lada is one of the best selling cars of all time.

True, but when they helped them build it, it was a to be a Fiat factory, not a Lada factory.

 

As to Lada being one of the "best selling cars of all time" I would like to see/hear your reference on that.

 

Here's a couple:...

... Remembering how prolific they were all over the Second World and even their success in some Western European countries, I definitely tend to believe it.

Well, when I think about it, I suppose there is something to be said for having a closed market. I wonder how many of their customers really had any other choice ...

 

Most Soviet people definitely couldn't afford a car. Average monthly salary was maybe 200 rubles and the cheapest car was about 6,000 rubles. I don't think that the state bank gave out credit either. For the most part, there were just three choices when it came to cars in the USSR:

 

Zaporozhets - Awful looking little two door car with some kind a noisy, ultra low HP motorcycle engine at the back and a storage trunk under the hood. Cost about 6,000 rubles.

 

Lada/Zhiguli - A very basic, no frills standard four door sedan. Cost about 10,000 rubles.

 

Volga - Soviet luxury sedan, with decent suspension and often equipped with leather seats. Was pretty much exclusive to local party bosses, generals, factory directors and high-level scientists. ...about 15,000-20,000 rubles.

 

Also, even after you had saved up enough money, you had to be put on a waiting list that went a few years back.

[oxyehho 8]

Actually, I believe that the deal with Fiat was official and that Fiat even helped the Soviets build the AvtoVAZ factory. Lada is one of the best selling cars of all time.

True, but when they helped them build it, it was a to be a Fiat factory, not a Lada factory.

 

As to Lada being one of the "best selling cars of all time" I would like to see/hear your reference on that.

 

Here's a couple:...

... Remembering how prolific they were all over the Second World and even their success in some Western European countries, I definitely tend to believe it.

Well, when I think about it, I suppose there is something to be said for having a closed market. I wonder how many of their customers really had any other choice ...

 

Most Soviet people definitely couldn't afford a car. Average monthly salary was maybe 200 rubles and the cheapest car was about 6,000 rubles. I don't think that the state bank gave out credit either. For the most part, there were just three choices when it came to cars in the USSR:

 

Zaporozhets - Awful looking little two door car with some kind a noisy, ultra low HP motorcycle engine at the back and a storage trunk under the hood. Cost about 6,000 rubles.

 

Lada/Zhiguli - A very basic, no frills standard four door sedan. Cost about 10,000 rubles.

 

Volga - Soviet luxury sedan, with decent suspension and often equipped with leather seats. Was pretty much exclusive to local party bosses, generals, factory directors and high-level scientists. ...about 15,000-20,000 rubles.

 

Also, even after you had saved up enough money, you had to be put on a waiting list that went a few years back.

From what I remember there may have been a few million private cars in soviet days. There is no way in hell Lada is one of the best selling cars ever - it is simply delusional. All I remember is foul gas-smelling POS car and also puking in one as a 6-yr old when I rode it the first time.

[aresv 49]

There are a ton of old Ladas, Moskvitches and Zhigulis in Russia. They're old and busted. These days you're just as likely to see people driving a Mazda or Volkwagen.

 

There's still plenty of UAZ'es going strong, though.

[Ronswin 26]

And let's not forget the pinnacle of Cold War East Germany automotive technology:

 

the Trabant

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trabant

Edited August 26, 2009 by Ronswin

[JK-47 33]

And let's not forget the pinnacle of Cold War East Germany automotive technology:

 

the Trabant

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trabant

 

as even refueling the car required lifting the hood, filling the tank with gasoline (only 6.5 gallons), then adding two-stroke oil and shaking it back and forth to mix. It was in production without any significant change for nearly 30 years with 3,096,099 Trabants produced in total...

 

WOW! A 2 stroke engine IN A CAR!