Botasky1 3 Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Came across this yesterday. Does anyone know if you can just drop this in to a Saiga X39?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
imarangemaster 315 Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 (edited) In a word NO. Not unless you want an extended stay in the Federal graybar hotel. From a mechanical point of view, the answer is also NO. Reequires a 3rd pin, which just the 3rd hole in the receiver makes it a machine gun by ATF interpretation. Edited December 16, 2009 by imarangemaster Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lone Star Arms 2,047 Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 (edited) I have to agree. Looks like a one way ticket to club fed. But there's an upside - with every pull of the trigger, your S12 shotgun is capable of LEGALLY delivering up to 15 (or so) 8.4mm projectiles to your designated target. If you can get off just three shots a second, that is 45 8.4mm projectiles delivered down range, on target. To put that much lead downrange with a 7.62 AK you would need a effective fire rate of about 3000 rounds per minute (that is taking into account the disparity in size of the projectiles (1.102/1) X 45 x 60. Even half that rate of fire is more than enough to best the downrange volume of a full auto 7.62. Plus at a buck and a half a round for high capacity 00 buck you are shooting each projectile at less than half the cost of a 7.62 projectile. Your completely legal stock S12 is absloutely capable of delivering as much lead on target as a Dylan minigun, (albeit with much less range, lower velocity and only for intervals limited to your mag capacity), so why worry? Edited December 16, 2009 by WaffenSchmied Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Still an interesting post. I had never seen the burst fire conversion for an AK before! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
imarangemaster 315 Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 I am always leery of small, unknown vendors selling full auto parts. I knew a guy in Kalifornia that bought some M2 carbine parts (a complete set, no less) out of a small add in Shotgun News (pre-internet days. A Postal Inspector in a Mailman uniform delivered it. As soon as he identified himself as the addressee and signed for it, he was in handcuffs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Botasky1 3 Posted December 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 (edited) Still an interesting post. I had never seen the burst fire conversion for an AK before! This is why I started the thread. I do not intend on installing this on any weapon (I actually think my finger could let loose 3 rounds just as quick with enough practice). Just curious as to if this would work on a semiauto Saiga. And I do believe the "3rd" pin is included, seems like all thats needed would be a 3rd hole possibly?? for it to work mechanically. Edited December 16, 2009 by Botasky1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Botasky1 3 Posted December 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 I am always leery of small, unknown vendors selling full auto parts. I knew a guy in Kalifornia that bought some M2 carbine parts (a complete set, no less) out of a small add in Shotgun News (pre-internet days. A Postal Inspector in a Mailman uniform delivered it. As soon as he identified himself as the addressee and signed for it, he was in handcuffs. This was actually posted for sale on a WELL known vendor site that I wont mention. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Still an interesting post. I had never seen the burst fire conversion for an AK before! It appears to be the innards from a Tantal. Still an interesting post. I had never seen the burst fire conversion for an AK before! This is why I started the thread. I do not intend on installing this on any weapon (I actually think my finger could let loose 3 rounds just as quick with enough practice). Just curious as to if this would work on a semiauto Saiga. And I do believe the "3rd" pin is included, seems like all thats needed would be a 3rd hole possibly?? for it to work mechanically. Well, we're not here to instruct folks in making full auto weapons. Pivot pins are pivot pins are pivot pins, one isn't "special". You can actually possess all that stuff, so long as you don't have a receiver that it'll fit (unless you live in Washington State, that is) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Botasky1 3 Posted December 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Still an interesting post. I had never seen the burst fire conversion for an AK before! It appears to be the innards from a Tantal. Still an interesting post. I had never seen the burst fire conversion for an AK before! This is why I started the thread. I do not intend on installing this on any weapon (I actually think my finger could let loose 3 rounds just as quick with enough practice). Just curious as to if this would work on a semiauto Saiga. And I do believe the "3rd" pin is included, seems like all thats needed would be a 3rd hole possibly?? for it to work mechanically. Well, we're not here to instruct folks in making full auto weapons. Pivot pins are pivot pins are pivot pins, one isn't "special". You can actually possess all that stuff, so long as you don't have a receiver that it'll fit (unless you live in Washington State, that is) No one is asking for instruction.. just posted for general conversation and out of curiosity as I and others apparently have never seen a kit of this sort. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chevyman097 2,579 Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Man im cant believe anyone would try and sell that! they are just trying to get a knock on the door. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
imarangemaster 315 Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 That is pretty much true with all full auto parts. If you do not have a receiver that they fit in (3rd hole, modified AR lower, etc) the parts are not illegal, EXCEPT M2 Carbine parts! According to BATFE, the complete set of M2 carbine parts (11 parts, I think, I would have to check the schematic in the FM for M2s)constitutes a machinegun. That is because they work with any GI M1 carbine receiver, with no modification. We modified a few at the PD for entry weapons about 25 years ago, NO, do not send me a PM asking for instruction, because I will not help you go to jail. Besides, who can afford to feed a full auto in this economy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sailor 6 Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Wow! I want one of those S-12's that will put all that lead down range 200-300 yards, accurately - what a weapon! Can't afford a cannon like that, so I'll stick with my cheapy 7.62x39 wimp of a carbine - sigh. sailor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 always thought the russians used 4 round burst for some reason. either way, to answer your question, there is something missing, and I aint saying what it is for several reasons, which is also not up for explanation. probably aint gonna work without what's missing. but - a couple of guys i know all say burst fire is bullshit, and just learn trigger control. its better to still have the capacity to fire everything at once downrange without fiddly fucking around with anything to do it. they invented burst fire to accomodate cookie-cutter recruits with no experience with ammunition management. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Digger44 0 Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 I am always leery of small, unknown vendors selling full auto parts. I knew a guy in Kalifornia that bought some M2 carbine parts (a complete set, no less) out of a small add in Shotgun News (pre-internet days. A Postal Inspector in a Mailman uniform delivered it. As soon as he identified himself as the addressee and signed for it, he was in handcuffs. KVAR is selling these, not a small, unknown vendor. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lone Star Arms 2,047 Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Wow! I want one of those S-12's that will put all that lead down range 200-300 yards, accurately - what a weapon! Can't afford a cannon like that, so I'll stick with my cheapy 7.62x39 wimp of a carbine - sigh. sailor Hmmm.... I don't think you read my post - and I have an AK (which now mostly lives in my gun safe) - but, even at 100 - 200 yards if I am putting out 15 times the number of projectiles with each trigger pull, I think I'll stick with a semi auto S12. I might be able to dodge or outrun a 7.62 fired one round at a time, but at a ratio of 15 to 1, the odds of outrunning or dodging that much 00' buckshot are slim to none. And if you think you can full auto fire that 7.62 AK accurately at 200 - 300 yards, I believe I have a bridge in Brooklyn you should consider buying. WS Quote Link to post Share on other sites
imarangemaster 315 Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 always thought the russians used 4 round burst for some reason. either way, to answer your question, there is something missing, and I aint saying what it is for several reasons, which is also not up for explanation. probably aint gonna work without what's missing. but - a couple of guys i know all say burst fire is bullshit, and just learn trigger control. its better to still have the capacity to fire everything at once downrange without fiddly fucking around with anything to do it. they invented burst fire to accomodate cookie-cutter recruits with no experience with ammunition management. SEVERAL THINGS: Burst fire does suck. I have tried 3 round M16A2, didn't like it. I have shot a dozen different types of full auto, and have never had a problem with 3-4 round trigger control. Second, the part that is missing is________! I won't say, but I happen to know that many Yugo AK s were built up using this part in semi auto. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
anothermotorhead 0 Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 I bet its an TF trap I bet its an ATF trap Quote Link to post Share on other sites
diamondback 56 Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 And 3-round burst is wasting 2 shots, or so Jeff Cooper said... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 3 round burst is bullshit, how am i suposed to say "die motherfucker die" to 3 rounds? 7 round strings are where its at, even hendrix knew that! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 I am always leery of small, unknown vendors selling full auto parts. I knew a guy in Kalifornia that bought some M2 carbine parts (a complete set, no less) out of a small add in Shotgun News (pre-internet days. A Postal Inspector in a Mailman uniform delivered it. As soon as he identified himself as the addressee and signed for it, he was in handcuffs. KVAR is selling these, not a small, unknown vendor. Yeah, I got the email too. I don't even remember signing up for their news letter. 3 round burst is bullshit, how am i suposed to say "die motherfucker die" to 3 rounds? I LOL'ed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Twinsen 86 Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 (edited) Three round burst kits are for people with full auto registered guns and those that can legally create machine guns. They're not illegall for everybody, just illegal for you and me. Those special folks can have those parts. Edited December 17, 2009 by Twinsen Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GregM1 241 Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 they invented burst fire to accomodate cookie-cutter recruits with no experience with ammunition management. i thought it was invented to prevent M-16's from overheating as easily. i saw the email the other night but have no intention of getting the trigger set. it is an interesting pic since it shows the install too. i am glad to see the set up. Aren't Polish military ak's made with the 3 shot burst? Who else uses them? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BuffetDestroyer 969 Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 I saw these the other day on the vendor's website too. I think it is a novelty for the folks that have the full auto AK's and want something different. I wouldn't want to give the ATF reason to believe that I "intended" to fabricate an illegal machine gun. Plus 3 round burst on an M-4 and M-16 was worthless in my opinion unless you are laying suppressive fire (full auto would still be better). It equates to 10 shots on a standard magazine if you engage the burst. In combat, every round conserved could save your life. Also if you are using the hammer, trigger and sear as compliance parts on your Saiga, it would be illegal to put them in (922r) since they are foreign made without swapping in US made barrels, receivers, pistons or other compliance parts as necessary. Not worth the hassle to own a bunch of paperweight parts! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Three round burst kits are for people with full auto registered guns and those that can legally create machine guns. They're not illegall for everybody, just illegal for you and me. Those special folks can have those parts. Fortunately for everyone, these are quite legal to possess by anyone. Unless your receiver is set up to accept them, they simply won't work. I saw these the other day on the vendor's website too. I think it is a novelty for the folks that have the full auto AK's and want something different. I wouldn't want to give the ATF reason to believe that I "intended" to fabricate an illegal machine gun. Plus 3 round burst on an M-4 and M-16 was worthless in my opinion unless you are laying suppressive fire (full auto would still be better). It equates to 10 shots on a standard magazine if you engage the burst. In combat, every round conserved could save your life. Also if you are using the hammer, trigger and sear as compliance parts on your Saiga, it would be illegal to put them in (922r) since they are foreign made without swapping in US made barrels, receivers, pistons or other compliance parts as necessary. Not worth the hassle to own a bunch of paperweight parts! . . do you have schematics on how to "adjust" your receiver to get these parts working? Do you have a receiver (or AK) that's been magic markered in the places to cut? Got one of those Paladin Press books on "How to make a full auto AK" hanging from the front sight block? These parts come with every Tantal kit that I've ever seen - so is everyone who bought a Tantal kit a criminal now? Folks, there's nothing illegal about owning these parts (unless you're a resident of Washington state) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BuffetDestroyer 969 Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Three round burst kits are for people with full auto registered guns and those that can legally create machine guns. They're not illegall for everybody, just illegal for you and me. Those special folks can have those parts. Fortunately for everyone, these are quite legal to possess by anyone. Unless your receiver is set up to accept them, they simply won't work. I saw these the other day on the vendor's website too. I think it is a novelty for the folks that have the full auto AK's and want something different. I wouldn't want to give the ATF reason to believe that I "intended" to fabricate an illegal machine gun. Plus 3 round burst on an M-4 and M-16 was worthless in my opinion unless you are laying suppressive fire (full auto would still be better). It equates to 10 shots on a standard magazine if you engage the burst. In combat, every round conserved could save your life. Also if you are using the hammer, trigger and sear as compliance parts on your Saiga, it would be illegal to put them in (922r) since they are foreign made without swapping in US made barrels, receivers, pistons or other compliance parts as necessary. Not worth the hassle to own a bunch of paperweight parts! . . do you have schematics on how to "adjust" your receiver to get these parts working? Do you have a receiver (or AK) that's been magic markered in the places to cut? Got one of those Paladin Press books on "How to make a full auto AK" hanging from the front sight block? These parts come with every Tantal kit that I've ever seen - so is everyone who bought a Tantal kit a criminal now? Folks, there's nothing illegal about owning these parts (unless you're a resident of Washington state) If it comes with the Tantal kits, that's great - I wouldn't plan on displaying them above my fireplace! Why the fuck would you pay for one unless you plan on making a machine gun, or converting a full auto to 3-round, regardless of the legality? Paperweight parts! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Why the fuck would you pay for one unless you plan on making a machine gun, or converting a full auto to 3-round, regardless of the legality? Paperweight parts! If you happen to own a tax stamped pre 86 full auto AK, spare select fire parts are not a bad thing and perfectly legal to install in your legal machine gun. Legal class III manufacturers making legal post 86 dealer samples like Tom Cole or Tony Rumore might be able to use these as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Three round burst kits are for people with full auto registered guns and those that can legally create machine guns. They're not illegall for everybody, just illegal for you and me. Those special folks can have those parts. That's 100% on the money. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 I bet its an TF trap I bet its an ATF trap Why would you say that? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Man im cant believe anyone would try and sell that! they are just trying to get a knock on the door. Full auto guns are legal to own in America. Parts break sometimes and need replacing. Why would it be illegal to repair a machine gun with spare parts like these? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Did anyone not catch the phrase at the bottom of the diagram. "3 shot burst repair set" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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