IndyArms 10,186 Posted July 2, 2010 Report Share Posted July 2, 2010 So... I am perusing the August issue of "Special Weapons" and LO and Behold.... the BOYS at ALLIANCE armament are AT IT AGAIN!!!! You can read about it from the online magazine HERE: http://www.tactical-life.com/online/special-weapons/alliance-armament-460/ ( The image to the left is the cover of the issue I have... with the picture of the Stag billet AR on it! ) On page 38, there is about a 6 page ( with ads of course ) write up with lots of pics and specs of ALLIANCE Armament's "NEW" ".460 Alliance" AK rifle. Built on a WASR10 receiver it is an AK rifle, chambered in .460 Alliance. To me it looks like a .458 SOCOM round... If I had to bet... I bet it is, they just necked it up a cunthair to get "460"...I am sure they had to tweak it to make it "better"... LOL They really dont go into great details of the round itself... just a lot of hoopla on the rifle... The magazine even states Alliance makes a "SOLID Saiga Conversion" LOL!!! ( not in regards to the 460 rifle, of course!! ) They talk about its use by civilian contractors...and how it will penetrate car doors, and people between car doors, and yadda yadda yadda... Big whoop... I was not quite sure where the article was going with THAT line of reason for requiring it, or needing it... something about "interdicting cars"... I guess if you are working in the sandbox, this would be the AK you would want at roadblock checkpoints... otherwise, they say it would make a good brush gun... Yeah, I suppose... It claims of course, how it gives more punch to the AK platform...With a 400 grain bullet at close to 1700 FPS... I would say "Well DUH!"... They discuss its 3" groups at 50 yards... ( Doo-dah! like THAT is even remotely impressive! ) how the last round in a magazine seems to never want to strip and load, ( it's an Alliance... go figure! LOL ) BUT... That will hold the bolt open while you fiddlefuck around with a new fully loaded magazine... OH BOY! could I??? It has a mo-fugly looking gas block on it... but other than that, it looks like any other AK rifle except with a MUCH thicker barrel... It maybe a bit better than a typical WASR as It looks repainted... The fact that they couldnt even put DECENT wood on it, and just left some crappy laminate on it, screams "SHODDY" to me, all the more! OH!! They did burn a cute little logo into the side of the handguard! All in all I was not overly impressed... Except to maybe want to call TROMIX and have him build me a SAIGA in .458 SOCOM so I could have ammo interchangeability between my AK's and my AR's... With all that Said... It is an ALLIANCE armament design... so figure accordingly... Read the article for yourself and judge for yourself... As for me... Tony, When ya wanna build me a .458 SOCOM AK out of one of my Saiga's and put these boys to SHAME! :up: There is a shit-ton of other amazing articles in there... Anzio bolt action 20MM, .416 Barrett, and a gorgeous Stag billet AR!!! Check it out!! This one is a cover to cover issue!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigsal 757 Posted July 2, 2010 Report Share Posted July 2, 2010 I want one.... for squirrel hunting. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393 Posted July 2, 2010 Report Share Posted July 2, 2010 Jesus christ, they couldn't even take a dremel tool and round off the edges on those front sight/gas blocks? Looks like a LEGO gun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted July 2, 2010 Report Share Posted July 2, 2010 ....They discuss its 3" groups at 50 yards... ( Doo-dah! like THAT is even remotely impressive! ) how the last round in a magazine seems to never want to strip and load, ... It most likely just needs one of their custom fittings to work, I am sure that will make this available, at extra cost, to those that buy their rifle. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mgconnor13 206 Posted July 2, 2010 Report Share Posted July 2, 2010 yet another reason I'm skeptical of any thing I read in gun magazines Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scoutjoe 276 Posted July 2, 2010 Report Share Posted July 2, 2010 At least they put a G2 in it..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VaiFanatic90 360 Posted July 2, 2010 Report Share Posted July 2, 2010 That has got to be one of the fugliest contraptions I've seen. It's almost as ugly as the high school bicycle, God that girl was fugnasty and people still porked that, from my high school days. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted July 2, 2010 Report Share Posted July 2, 2010 It's an identical copy of the .458 SOCOM. Alliance could not get licensed to use the .458 SOCOM name. Admittance to that club is closed. There will only be three members. Tromix, SSK, and Rock River. Tony Rumore Tromix 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KROSS FA 14 Posted July 2, 2010 Report Share Posted July 2, 2010 A big +1 to the idea of reintroducing the Tromix .458 SOCOM line. Would love to add one to the collection. Zach Kross, LLC Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted July 2, 2010 Report Share Posted July 2, 2010 This was the second of two prototypes that I made back in about 2005. The first .458 SOCOM AK prototype was made in 2003. There are a lot more options available today, as far as parts go, so I would probably change it up a bit. This one was built on a milled Firing Line receiver. Those run about $350, so I think building them on the Saiga-223 platform would probably be more salable cost-wise. I'll discuss it with Bob and see if we can get a plan together to build them quickly. It will never fly, if it takes me 4 days to assemble a gun like this one. FYI, the top cover/scope mount and flash hider are all factory Valmet parts. Tony Rumore Tromix P.S. Second pic is more like what it would probably resemble. A Classic Tromix look, but in .458 SOCOM. Maybe include a Tromix HK rear sight base with the frontal picatinny rail and swap out the factory handguard for a Tromix unit or a Kross/Chaos type tri/quad rail. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KROSS FA 14 Posted July 2, 2010 Report Share Posted July 2, 2010 That looks great. It would definitely be neat to see the pioneer of the chamber bring it back. Regarding the rail for that platform we've been looking into making some for the rifles and may get something going. Zach Kross, LLC Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted July 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2010 It's an identical copy of the .458 SOCOM. Alliance could not get licensed to use the .458 SOCOM name. Admittance to that club is closed. There will only be three members. Tromix, SSK, and Rock River. Tony Rumore Tromix so how do they get the brass headstamped? gotta be starline brass then, right??? or do they just use 458 brass and neglect to tell anyone its socom brass until they buy it and then say " oh..btw... 458 socom is the same as 460 alliance... no worries..." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunboy69 50 Posted July 3, 2010 Report Share Posted July 3, 2010 wow that thing is ugly. For the money who wouldnt take a Tromix over that? wasr 10 's are pretty rough out of the box. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted July 3, 2010 Report Share Posted July 3, 2010 Their brass is starline, headstamped .458 SOCOM. Edited: I got that info from Marty ter Weeme at Teppo Jutsu after AA contacted him about the project. AA is now saying they are using reformed SAUM brass instead. My mistake. Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KROSS FA 14 Posted July 3, 2010 Report Share Posted July 3, 2010 Interesting. I don't have access to the full article but I'd be surprised if the .458 SOCOM angle wasn't mentioned. Seems to me most people would want to know the why behind its creation and what the actual difference is considering the minute variance in dimension. Further, why marvel in the capabilities of the "new" cartridge if it's been covered a hundred times before under the name of SOCOM? Zach Kross, LLC Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted July 3, 2010 Report Share Posted July 3, 2010 I want one..... to mount a toilet plunger head on. I'm sure it would work fine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted July 3, 2010 Report Share Posted July 3, 2010 I want one.... for squirrel hunting. Very appropriate. Considering it was made by some. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted July 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2010 Thanks, Tony... I figured that was the case... What gets me is how can it be THAT inaccurate?!?!? ( Alliance... right... ) My .458 SOCOM AR will hold 1" groups at 100 yards with an 18" barrel if I do MY part... There is ZERO MENTION of .458 SOCOM or that headstamp on the brass in the article... I have read and re-read it... they dont say SHIT... does that surprise you? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted July 6, 2010 Report Share Posted July 6, 2010 Tony, that SOCOM receiver is what put you in the blue book, isnt it? ...or was it the hammer line....or whatever it was...cant remember Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted July 7, 2010 Report Share Posted July 7, 2010 Tromix has been in the Blue Book of Gun Values since 2001. We are still in there with three separate listings. They list the discontinued TR-15 line of SledgeHammers (big bore AR's in 440 Corbon, 50AE, 44 Rem Mag and .458 SOCOM) and TackHammers (Small Bore AR's in various calibers), and Title II Saigas. They also listed the Siamese Sixteen twin barrel M16 (2002 Edition), but only for one year and then deleted it in subsequent editions. Serialization of the TR-15 receivers begins with TR-0001 and ends with TR-0405. Production was between 12/13/2000 and 10/14/2008. I imagine AA does not mention ".458 SOCOM" because it is a registered trademark of Marty ter Weeme's company, Teppo Jutsu. Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted July 7, 2010 Report Share Posted July 7, 2010 Haha....I liked snoofer's comment at the bottom the best...lol @AA! HAHAHAHAHA! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tsawy93 19 Posted July 7, 2010 Report Share Posted July 7, 2010 On the AA web site they sell ammo with the following disclaimer... "Wildcat cartridges are formed from preexisting casings, disregard markings on casing." I know I am dreaming, but I would prefer the original ".458 SOCOM" than a ".460 SUCKEM" SORRY, I couldn't resist... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
headshot 52 Posted July 7, 2010 Report Share Posted July 7, 2010 (edited) Those guys just keep stooping lower. arfcom thread Edited July 7, 2010 by headshot Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted July 7, 2010 Report Share Posted July 7, 2010 (edited) From ar.15.com member 0351AA.... Well lies flow freely on the saiga forum thats why we "stopped" advertising 90% of the complaints were fictitious and the few legitimate complaints were dealt with. When someone refuses to send a product back but yet continues to bash it what does that say? It was stated on the saiga forum that we were using socom brass by Mr. Rumore like he knew first hand for this to be a fact! Our 12 gauge drums work just fine in s-12's right out of the box just ask Lone Star arms who is a s-12 forum business member they use our drums and I believe he has videos linked directly to your forum. Youtube has many independent videos of our drums working great, like I said lies-lies and bitter so-called businessmen that should have a higher standard of ethics. saiga12.com if full of liars and lies..... Edited July 7, 2010 by evlblkwpnz 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VaiFanatic90 360 Posted July 8, 2010 Report Share Posted July 8, 2010 (edited) From ar.15.com member 0351AA.... Well lies flow freely on the saiga forum thats why we "stopped" advertising 90% of the complaints were fictitious and the few legitimate complaints were dealt with. When someone refuses to send a product back but yet continues to bash it what does that say? It was stated on the saiga forum that we were using socom brass by Mr. Rumore like he knew first hand for this to be a fact! Our 12 gauge drums work just fine in s-12's right out of the box just ask Lone Star arms who is a s-12 forum business member they use our drums and I believe he has videos linked directly to your forum. Youtube has many independent videos of our drums working great, like I said lies-lies and bitter so-called businessmen that should have a higher standard of ethics. saiga12.com if full of liars and lies..... That guy is a pansy for not coming directly here to say it to the virtual faces of the people who read this forum. You're a pussy-ass-mofo if you continue to bash someone or a group of people without saying it to their faces. I bet his buddies on the AR forum think he's a real hero. "HEAR YE, HEAR YE, I DOTH HATH EXPOSED THE LIES THAT HATH BEEN TOLD!" I bet if someone called him out, he'd go delete that post and say it was never written, or someone hacked his account and wrote it. Then he'd turn around and say we're lying and slandering the AR 15 forum members by making things up. Let's go play with our guns in the swamp, I bet mine will still work ;] Edited July 8, 2010 by VaiFanatic90 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted July 8, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2010 Hmm... Remington 7MM or 300 SAUM brass is whats used because 458 from Starline is not available. Odd... go to Graf and sons... its AVAILABLE. go figure. I like the comparison "chicken fingers to chicken tenders... and marty's taste better!" LOL!!!! Thats funny right there! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
volkov 318 Posted July 8, 2010 Report Share Posted July 8, 2010 (edited) I love AA.. They keep me laughing.. You need a few morons in the world just to appreciate actual quality and have a good laugh at these guys. I just feel bad for the people who get tricked by them wish they had pics up though, they seem broken Edited July 8, 2010 by volkov Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted July 8, 2010 Report Share Posted July 8, 2010 From ar.15.com member 0351AA.... Well lies flow freely on the saiga forum thats why we "stopped" advertising 90% of the complaints were fictitious and the few legitimate complaints were dealt with. When someone refuses to send a product back but yet continues to bash it what does that say? It was stated on the saiga forum that we were using socom brass by Mr. Rumore like he knew first hand for this to be a fact! Our 12 gauge drums work just fine in s-12's right out of the box just ask Lone Star arms who is a s-12 forum business member they use our drums and I believe he has videos linked directly to your forum. Youtube has many independent videos of our drums working great, like I said lies-lies and bitter so-called businessmen that should have a higher standard of ethics. saiga12.com if full of liars and lies..... At the risk of starting another sh*tstorm, I'd really like to hear what Lone Star Arms has to say about this. I know that their product has worked fine in SOME weapons. But as I have stated many times before, their BUSINESS practices are what got them in most of the heat here. They have also been caught in so many lies that I can't honestly believe anything they say. I'll also add the small point that they are NOT gunsmiths................... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted July 9, 2010 Report Share Posted July 9, 2010 To my knowledge, the only thing LSA has done to "promote" AA drums is to feature a video of one of thier customers using his own AA drum in a S-12 Mike had refined. The vid was to demonstrate the reliability any LSA S-12 has. Mike's a friend of mine. He prefers MD-20s, (for good reason). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted July 9, 2010 Report Share Posted July 9, 2010 To my knowledge, the only thing LSA has done to "promote" AA drums is to feature a video of one of thier customers using his own AA drum in a S-12 Mike had refined. The vid was to demonstrate the reliability any LSA S-12 has. Mike's a friend of mine. He prefers MD-20s, (for good reason). I had a feeling it was probably something along these lines. Once again, AA can be counted on to be less than truthful. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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