Converted vs. "restored"....

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

We have all noticed this trendy new word people are using these days for converting their Saigas to pistol grip configuration. Why is that exactly? When you take a Saiga rifle or shotgun that was built brand new, with new parts, at the Izhmash factory in a SPORTER configuration, then exported to the US....and you CONVERT it to a different configuration (PG), to make it look and operate like a non sporting Russian AK, you are NOT "restoring" anything at all. It was never built that way to begin with. It's not like you are restoring a vintage pre ban AK-47 or the like....or even like restoring a classic automobile to it's original factory grandeur. Take a classic car like a 1934 ford coupe for instance. If you do a frame off restoration on it, repairing, rechroming, and replacing every defective part on it til it looks brand new again, THEN it's restored. If you take that same classic '34 ford ...and chop the top, shorten the axle, add big racing slicks and a Chevy 350 with dual quads and a blower.....you haven't just restored that classic car, you converted it into a hot rod.

Or more to the point....a factory Shelby GT 350 E is definitely not the same as a plain jane '68 Mustang fastback which has been hot rodded and had after market Shelby look alike, or even original parts added on to it.

 

People hot rodding sporter Saigas and calling it a restoration? Naw....that ain't kosher, sorry. Why can't we just leave well enough alone, and keep using the same words for what they actually mean? Isn't it bad enough already that the Saiga owner's manual calls half the parts by a different name than most people who are previously familiar with AKs calls them? Hell even the factory keeps changing things around on them so it's hard to keep up sometimes with what is what.

 

Call it whatever tickles your fancy on your own, but it's a CONVERSION (like the title of this forum section calls it, and everyone who has been doing it since before most of these new guys even had a Saiga, calls it), not a restoration. Why try and change it just to be trendy? Like my girl likes to say sometimes...."words mean things".

 

Sorry to bring it up but it's especially irritating when some people repeatedly type things like " I converted restored my gun or had it done by....bla bla..."

[gregomega 929]

We have all noticed this trendy new word people are using these days for converting their Saigas to pistol grip configuration. Why is that exactly? When you take a Saiga rifle or shotgun that was built brand new, with new parts, at the Izhmash factory in a SPORTER configuration, then exported to the US....and you CONVERT it to a different configuration (PG), to make it look and operate like a non sporting Russian AK, you are NOT "restoring" anything at all. It was never built that way to begin with. It's not like you are restoring a vintage pre ban AK-47 or the like....or even like restoring a classic automobile to it's original factory grandeur. Take a classic car like a 1934 ford coupe for instance. If you do a frame off restoration on it, repairing, rechroming, and replacing every defective part on it til it looks brand new again, THEN it's restored. If you take that same classic '34 ford ...and chop the top, shorten the axle, add big racing slicks and a Chevy 350 with dual quads and a blower.....you haven't just restored that classic car, you converted it into a hot rod.

Or more to the point....a factory Shelby GT 350 E is definitely not the same as a plain jane '68 Mustang fastback which has been hot rodded and had after market Shelby look alike, or even original parts added on to it.

 

People hot rodding sporter Saigas and calling it a restoration? Naw....that ain't kosher, sorry. Why can't we just leave well enough alone, and keep using the same words for what they actually mean? Isn't it bad enough already that the Saiga owner's manual calls half the parts by a different name than most people who are previously familiar with AKs calls them? Hell even the factory keeps changing things around on them so it's hard to keep up sometimes with what is what.

 

Call it whatever tickles your fancy on your own, but it's a CONVERSION (like the title of this forum section calls it, and everyone who has been doing it since before most of these new guys even had a Saiga, calls it), not a restoration. Why try and change it just to be trendy? Like my girl likes to say sometimes...."words mean things".

 

Sorry to bring it up but it's especially irritating when some people repeatedly type things like " I converted restored my gun or had it done by....bla bla..."

 

gotcha, thanks for clearing that up.

[tsawy93 19]

I never could understand how people could change the definitions of conversion/restoration. I agree if it NEVER had a PG, then it is a CONVERSION. You are converting the Saiga from one use to another.

If you converted an AK to a sporter(why? I don't know!!), that would be a conversion, too. Maybe, I am thinking wrong. I would like to hear from someone who prefers restoration and why they think that is preferable.

[Azrial 1,091]

The argument is interesting and even factual. However as you say, words have meanings and I think that it is important to understand that when most folks hear that you have "converted" applied to an AK they assume that you mean to full automatic fire capabilities.

 

I champion the word "restore" in this circumstance as it does not have that conatation. It is also correct in that it refers to something closer to the original configuration of the firearm.

 

These folks are busy playing a word game with us with the intention of depriving us of our civil rights, I think that is very important that we chose our terminology with more criteria then just mechanical correctness.

 

Just another point of view on the matter.

[csspecs 1,987]

I've found most people hear either restore or convert and they think machine gun. I just say "I moved the trigger forward and added a pistol grip".

 

Upgrading could be more correct, as its not really a conversion as nothing is really changing in function, nor are you restoring anything.

 

"I had my saiga upgraded by" does sound about accurate. The triggers are better and over all handling is improved.

[Stansplace 414]

Semantics...................... Opinions rule. I say convert most of the time, but I like the way restoration fits. True it is incorrect technically, it is a colloquialism so to speak, or maybe even a little romantic (a man and his AK-47). And I like it, see opinions rule above.

[joelrod47 373]

Hey........... I just say "this is my TROMIX", and let it go at that.............

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

..."restore" is also correct in that it refers to something closer to the original configuration of the firearm...

 

^ This.

 

I regularly refer to the process of installing a proper semi-auto AK trigger group, pistol grip, stock etc. as converting restoring the weapon, because imo that's exactly what it is. The "sporter" configuration is a bastardization of the true, original design of the weapon done, (in almost all cases), simply to comply with the whims of our unconstitutional BATFE. The way it's done is a clear indication of that.

Edited July 27, 2010 by post-apocalyptic

[patriot 7,197]

I'd stay clear of "convert". It's easily misconstrued as "creating a full-auto". Why borrow trouble. "Modded" is far more appropriate and correct.

[danklab 57]

I usually get funny looks when saying I've "converted" mine as well. Although, I do feel that is the correct term, I still have to explain what I've done to it so as not to have anyone thinking I'm manufacturing automatic weapons.

 

Sometimes just to avoid going through a rundown of what I've done to it, I just say I hooked mine up.

[N4KVE 14]

The weapon is built at the AK plant in Russia right next to real pistol grip AK's. The gun is then converted to resemble a hunting rifle so it can legally be imported into the USA. I mean look at the lower plate that is pop riveted to the bottom of the receiver. And then on some guns, the hole is already cut out for the pistol grip screw. They make it that way knowing that most people will restore the gun to be the AK it was meant to be. Now in the case of making a HK SL-8 into a G-36, that requires much work & alot of different parts, so I would call that a conversion, but in the case of the Saiga, that is restoring the gun to it's original state. Let's say you get a 40 year old 396 Chevelle that's been modified & weathered over the years & looks like crap. You restore it to look original & new. Same with the Saiga. You remove the crap & make it look like the original AK it was supposed to be before the US import regulations screwed it up. In the case of Shelby Mustangs, they were a conversion. Early factory built Ford Mustangs were sent to Shelby's facilities in Venice Beach California to be "converted" into a "Shelby Mustang". A few years later, the Mustangs were sent to his plant at the Los Angeles Airport for the conversion process. At least in Russia, the Saigas were converted from AK's into hunting rifles "in house". GARY N4KVE

Edited August 5, 2010 by N4KVE

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

The weapon is built at the AK plant in Russia right next to real pistol grip AK's. The gun is then converted to resemble a hunting rifle so it can legally be imported into the USA. I mean look at the lower plate that is pop riveted to the bottom of the receiver. And then on some guns, the hole is already cut out for the pistol grip screw. They make it that way knowing that most people will restore the gun to be the AK it was meant to be. Now in the case of making a HK SL-8 into a G-36, that requires much work & alot of different parts, so I would call that a conversion, but in the case of the Saiga, that is restoring the gun to it's original state. Let's say you get a 40 year old 396 Chevelle that's been modified & weathered over the years & looks like crap. You restore it to look original & new. Same with the Saiga. You remove the crap & make it look like the original AK it was supposed to be before the US import regulations screwed it up... GARY N4KVE

 

+1! That's my point, exactly. There's no "conversion" going on at our end, we're simply trying to undo the bullshit "sporter" configuration forced upon us by the unconstitutional BATFE and restore our Kalashnikovs to what they were meant to be.

[Nailbomb 10,221]

Mine are all "modified"

[N4KVE 14]

Mine are all "modified"

What are you trying to say? Yours are in exactly the shape as imported by RAA. Modified by Saiga to be legally importable? Still look like hunting rifles? GARY N4KVE

[22_Shooter 1,560]

Mine were innocent school girls that have since turned into filthy sluts.

[scoutjoe 276]

Mine were innocent school girls that have since turned into filthy sluts.

 

You dirty old man

[22_Shooter 1,560]

Mine were innocent school girls that have since turned into filthy sluts.

 

You dirty old man

 

 

I'm only a couple years older than you, IIRC.

[Gothmog 24]

I use restore rather than convert.

 

dictionary....

 

Convert....verb....1. to change (something) into a different form or properties; transmute; transform.

 

Restore....verb....2. to bring back to a former, original, or normal condition, as a building, statue, or painting. or S12.

 

 

These weapons are built along side of AK's, and only come in this configuration in this country(maybe some others too.) The only reason we see a sportster model is because of import laws/bans, if not for those we would have no reason to restore.

 

 

P.S. What the heck is a GT350E? I know and drove a GT500E, and that aint anything like the '68 it is modeled after. The "E" is to brutal to drive as was the '68 GT500KR, great going from point A to B in a straight line, but pulling a tight G turn it always got squirrely, A mini cooper could and will out slalom it all day. I owned a '69 GT500 and that was a beast too, glad I don't own it now, between insurance, tickets, and gas, I wouldn't have money for my babies(weapons).

 

P.P.S. I think the correct terms should be, Ishmash converts these to sportster configuration for export, and, we restore it back to what they should have always been.

 

 

HUZZAH!!

Edited August 9, 2010 by Gothmog

[Nailbomb 10,221]

Mine are all "modified"

What are you trying to say? Yours are in exactly the shape as imported by RAA. Modified by Saiga to be legally importable? Still look like hunting rifles? GARY N4KVE

I'm pretty sure there not much that the factory would have done to it on either of my S-12s.

 

Sounds like modified to me.

 

Its not original, its not traditional.

 

Its americanized. And that to cut, grind, weld. Modify.

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

I'd stay clear of "convert". It's easily misconstrued as "creating a full-auto". Why borrow trouble. "Modded" is far more appropriate and correct.

 

Well said. I tell people I modded the gun too. Last thing I want to do is point to an AK, in conversation with someone unfamiliar with the platform, and tell them I "converted" it. Modified really is the best way to describe the process IMO.

 

Also, regardless of what differences we all may have on the Converted vs. Restored debate, I have to say. Either of them is better than people who call it a "build"

[Paulyski 2,227]

I use the term "convert" because it's the most frequently used term, but extra measures were taken to make it a sporter, extra parts were ADDED to cover the trigger hole that the guns were originally designed to have, extra holes were ADDED to hold the ADDED parts that made the gun legal to import to the US.

This would have never been done to the most popular models of guns we get in the US if not for laws that forced them to convert the gun to a configuration that Kalashnikov didn't intend it to be, so although I use the term "convert", I do feel that restore to the original intended configuration is a more accurate description of what we do being as the shotguns we buy in the states have the pistol sights, which seem indicative of a combat shotgun & the riffles have iorn sights that are unlike any other sporter riffle. (unless one considers the SKS a sporter)

I would think putting a stock like this on an SKS technically "converting it" because it never was designed with a PG stock.

 

 

 

Now, If someone were to make this one into a combat shotgun, being as more care was put into it to make it a true sporter rather than the quick cheap patches on our guns, I think this one may be better described as "converted".

 

 

Just my humble opinion though.

Tomato / Tomoto.

 

I'll still say converted though, because that's what the Class III FFL licensed manufacturers call it & I don't want to confuse the noobs who've read the licenced vendors sites, plus I'm too lazy to type out converted only to converted it out & type restored.

Edited August 15, 2010 by Paulyski

[toshbar 36]

it's a CONVERSION (like the title of this forum section calls it, and everyone who has been doing it since before most of these new guys even had a Saiga, calls it),

 

Get off your high horse, lad.