9945 0 Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 I'm hearing two versions of what's going on...(1)The Saiga is really totally banned from future import....(2)The plant is shut down for a short peroid and will reopen and start importing sometime in the next year. Could someone please set me staright on this? Before I shell out a small fortune to get one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 It's all "sky is falling" bullshit to me.... until I actually hear it straight from the top. Worrying about things does no good.... 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Arik 565 Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Nothing is happening except for prices going up. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gunfanatic 221 Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigcec1 72 Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 + 1 what he said Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 + 1 what he said So voted! Motion carried! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bean.223 365 Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dad2142Dad 6,559 Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 I'm hearing two versions of what's going on...(1)The Saiga is really totally banned from future import....(2)The plant is shut down for a short period and will reopen and start importing sometime in the next year. Could someone please set me staright on this? Before I shell out a small fortune to get one. The rumors are many and some people are using this to charge you more. There are a few threads in here "Where have xxx saiga gone" some of these have places that do have them and you don't have to give your first born. Are they 200 like they were 5 years ago? No, going rate that is decent seems to be 350 to 500 depending on the model from what has been posted. Check business member CSS and others in the section. You will have to take some of the response with a grain of salt, as this subject has been beaten to death on this forum. Happy hunting and I hope you get what your looking for at a decent price. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 According to Atlantic Firearms, no more S12 import batches are being approved until the ATF finishes their "study". While it's not an actual ban, the supply is drying up and apparently can't be resupplied for awhile. Bridis , no problem the whole Saiga 12 deal stinks but there are a few things at work here , the market was slow on the S12 for the last 8 months so the importer was not bringing many of them in and wholesalers were not sitting on huge inventory levels. Within 3 days of the ATF talking about the possible ban most of the US inventory at the wholesalers was gobbled up or had jumped $100 bucks per gun .The importer only got a few more into the country on a already pre approved Import Form 6 but with the demand most firms only got a handful .Since then the ATF has not approved more Form 6 imports until they complete their STUDY so their is no official ban in place but yet no other shipments are coming into the US. Their may still be 1 pre approved shipment that could possibly arrive but nobody knows for sure the Russians are aware of the demand and trying to raise prices on the incoming shipment . They just tried to jump the price on the Vepr rifles by $70 per unit & claimed it was because of the increased cost of fuel. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/64793-atlantic-firearms-has-10-s-12s-as-of-7am-march-16-739/page__view__findpost__p__624824 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 The Saiga 12 is history! Now comes the Saiga 10! Makes as much sense as the rest of these panic threads.............. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
raleighsaiga 81 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 The Saiga 12 is history! Now comes the Saiga 10! Makes as much sense as the rest of these panic threads.............. You mean like the thread where Atlantic Firearms explains that yes, the ATF has indeed stopped approving new imports of the Saiga 12 pending the outcome of the shotgun study? Why would the ATF do that if they weren't planning to rule against further importation? What other shotguns have they taken this same action about? You mean like how the business members who had previously said they had credible information that there was nothing to worry about are now very silent on the matter? I've spoken with two different Saiga industry insiders in the past week about stuff they're working on, and they both brought up the ATF stuff themselves, and they both sounded worried for the first time even as they tried to rationalize why they thought the ATF couldn't do anything about the Saiga 12. We don't know what will happen in a few months, but it is a fact that what dealers have now is all that is in the country, and at best, one more shipment MAY have been approved but MAY or MAY NOT actually ship from Russia. It is also a fact that there aren't any factories currently making new Saiga 12s. I wouldn't call anything we're seeing as irrational on the part of either consumers or dealers. Those pointing fingers, calling people "chicken littles" very well may end up flattened by a big piece of sky if they aren't preparing themselves for this possibility. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Those pointing fingers, calling people "chicken littles" very well may end up flattened by a big piece of sky if they aren't preparing themselves for this possibility. Iis that when the Saigas they own fall over and hit them on the heads? I dont see how anyone will get hit on the head with sky. If they stop coming in... they stop. Tough shit. Buy it now, or wait. your call. Kinda like any other SPECULATION... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
beefcakeb99 572 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 (edited) Sounds like a de facto import ban to me... Which they have the authority to do Edited March 21, 2011 by beefcakeb0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 BATFE's job is not to legislate, nor is it their job to interpret the law. (That is for the US Supreme Court) 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YARP 300 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 and going and going and going and going and going and going. where's that damn bunny? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kresk 10,063 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 This is at least the third thread on the same topic........................................... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bean.223 365 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 (edited) BATFE's job is not to legislate, nor is it their job to interpret the law. (That is for the US Supreme Court) Agreed, I can't see just where they think they have the power to stop something before the law/rule/whatever is decided on. THIS WOULDN'T HAPPEN IF W. WAS STILL AROUND!!! In all seriousness I don't think this would be happening with Barry around. Edited March 21, 2011 by Bean.223 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Raleigh Saiga I think you are missing the point. Yes I'm a vendor here and yes I'm damn sick and tired of a dozen threads popping up every week on the "ATF study"....and yes indeed I stand behind my statement about 'chicken little'. My point was not that it's all a bullshit lie....the point you and others don't seem to get is, dramatizing and endless "discussion" (read..."gossip") on the matter is fucking useless, and it's a total waste of bandwidth, and waste of my time, your time...everyone's time when we stop what we are doing or working on long enough to open yet another fucking mundane thread where no real facts are given, concerning the actual state of affairs as issued by the only people that really matter...the BATF. It's GOSSIP pure and simple, until May 1st comes and an actual statement is made by the powers that be. Get over it already. If you are bent on saying "I told you so"...before you even know anything for sure, then why is that so? I'm sure I'm not the only Business Member, Staff Member, Contributor, or even regular Member here who's sick of all the different threads that all say the same thing.....NOTHING. It's a fucking waste of time and energy. That said..... IMO what we need is the same thing Juggernaut started back when there were umpteen gazillion BITCH threads started every week by unhappy people bitching about the AGP mags when they used to have problems early on (due to design issues that were eventually fixed). Everyone is concerned about this issue. Everyone is wondering what will come of it. Does that mean we should all run around crying like a bunch of school girls and speculating everything in a dozen different threads??? Hell NO. I propose we put an end to this right here and now. I was actually going t contact the mods later today and ask for a sticky thread where all you people who want to talk about the ATF study can do it in the same place. Then when it grows to 10 pages in a few days or less, at least all the info...pertinent or not...can be found in the same place, rather than spread all over the place doing nothing but wasting space here and drawing more fire from both sides....when we should all be on the SAME SIDE! Yesterday an FFL buddy of mine received a 34 page letter from the ATF, and told me they are asking for people's public opinion on what they should or should not do.... (if this is already public knowledge please excuse my ignorance on the matter...as in IGNORE....because I have been doing just that) Why not start a thread and give them exactly what they want? ...but ONE THREAD. It needs to be moderated and the point made clear it should be an ADULT discussion, and not a flame war either way....I am not talking about a worry wart thread of "what ifs" and "cold dead hands" talk either. What they want to see is facts about why the S-12 should not be banned from import. Think we can have just one thread on this forum with all POSITIVE posts? Or I guess if there are some dolts hanging out on a forum devoted to these great weapons, who actually do have reasons they would like to see a ban, they have a right to speak up too... After that call I received another call from another vendor, repeating a RUMOR saying they had already started moving to ban ALL SAIGAS, not just the shotguns. Honestly I don't believe ANY of it until I hear it straight from the top, and it's all GOSSIP to me until I do. Mods...what say ye? Can we please just have ONE stickied GOSSIP and WORRY thread...for all those who must speculate? Then I suggest we start a very specific thread right under it for grownups to contribute ONLY useful information and compile a good list of reasons the ATF can just come here and read. The more names we get on this "virtual petition"...the BETTER! 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
raleighsaiga 81 Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Cobra, I first read your last post thinking "WTF???", but then I see that my post looks like I was singling you out. That was not my intent. I absolutely agree that nobody knows what the ATF is going to do but the ATF. I know the speculation about what this means frustrates many. I guess I'm equally frustrated by how many people who already have all the Saigas they want are telling those who don't not to buy right now, or by how many people are claiming "price gouging" is going on when, in fact, there are real market forces at work here. In that regard, I think those people are being equally dishonest (consciously or not) about the risk that exists for this market. Risk is a subjective measure, but when I see people suggest that the risk to Saiga 12s is ZERO, I have a hard time accepting that. I also disagree that there is nothing to do. Depending upon where you stand in this industry: 1. Consumers who want a/additional Saigas can pay the premium as a form of insurance and buy what they can find now. I think this is the major impetus behind these threads as people are trying to gauge for themselves if the premium is worth it. Every week, that premium is going up, so that is adding pressure to these people to make a decision. 2. Vendors and service providers can be proactive instead of reactive in adjusting their business model or what they offer to expand outside of the Saiga realm. 3. Aftermarket product designers/manufacturers can hold off on additional capital investments until the ATF makes their ruling. We're seeing all three happening, and again I see these actions as entirely rational given the facts we already have, all embellishment aside. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chaseface 41 Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 I read the ATF report yesterday. Their "study" does worry me about the future of S 12's. Particulary the part on page 5 where it has a list of " ... certain shotgun features are not particularly suitable or readily adaptable for sporting purposes". And number 4 on that list is "magazines over 5 rounds, or a drum magazine;" meaning that an imported shotgun that has magazines over 5 rounds, or drum magazines do no meet the strict guidelines for a shotgun that is primarily for sporting purposes. But what they DONT mention is whether or not the shotgun, even if cabable of using those larger magazines, must be IMPORTED with the larger magazine for it to be "not particularly suitable or readily adaptable for sporting purposes". And since they are imported with, as far as I know, 5 round magazines this may be the saving grace. There is some interpretation in that opinion tho. I think that anyone who has any questions should definitely read the article before asking them. but thats just my opinion. You can find the ATF publication here http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/012611-study-on-importality-of-certain-shotguns.pdf . If there is another better thread to post this than sorry, just trying to help out. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
martilyo 1 Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 Whether or not the "ban" is true or false, the truth is available Saiga shotgun sources have dried up. I have an FFL and even my distributors can't get any and don't have a clue when they will arrive. I'm just sayin...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
presto_z 125 Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 Same here, I deal with most of the major ones (ellettbros, amchar, Davidsons, rsr, acusport and a few other ones) nobody is getting them Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 Mods...what say ye? Can we please just have ONE stickied GOSSIP and WORRY thread...for all those who must speculate? If I sticky it No one will know about it. Look at how much attention the Product review contest is getting for example. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 WORD Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 No ones more dissapointed about that than me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
redsoldier 7 Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 Correct me if I'm wrong, but IZMASH is still under bankruptcy and that issue has not bee resolved yet in Russian courts, ergo no NEW rifles are being manufactured? isn't THAT the actual issue? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 they arent going to fucking ban it not if its kept solid with the 5 rounder in it.... i dunno guys, greed might get this one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chevyman097 2,579 Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 I cant stand much more of this shit. ./wrists see yall in the after life......lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 Mods...what say ye? Can we please just have ONE stickied GOSSIP and WORRY thread...for all those who must speculate? If I sticky it No one will know about it. Look at how much attention the Product review contest is getting for example. What product review contest? You're right, Nailbomb, the more stickes a sub-forum accumulates, the more people tend to ignore em to get to the new threads. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrThunder88 912 Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 Maybe the front page of the forum should be like http://hasthelargehadroncolliderdestroyedtheworldyet.com/ 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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