what were you taught?

[DLT 1,646]

If you have to defend yourself or someone else, were you taught to shoot once, double tap, or shoot until the threat is neutralized?

[Eric Pate 478]

Fire until they go down, then reevaluate and reengage as needed.

[Venia 249]

Fire until they go down, then reevaluate and reengage as needed.

 

I like the way you think. Always better to have one story instead of two.

[Shandlanos 1,470]

You fire until the threat is ended. As long as your life is in danger, use whatever force is necessary to stop the threat. Once the thread is stopped, lethal force becomes murder.

[XD45 7,124]

You don't shoot to kill.  You don't shoot to wound.  You shoot to stop.  Never stop shooting until the threat is stopped.  And never shoot after the threat is stopped.

 

Don't get tunnel vision.  The threat you just stopped may not be the only threat.  As soon as that threat is stopped, scan your surroundings and reload.

 

And be aware that how you answer questions after the event will have consequences.

 

"Why did you shoot him?" You say, "I was in fear for my life."  Any other answer can make you a murderer.

"How many shots did you fire?" You say, "I don't remember."  Any other answer can make you a liar.

Same for any other specifics.  "How far away was he?"  "I'm not sure."  "How long did the fight last?"  "I'm not sure."

 

It's not just that you're covering your own ass.  Our perceptions change in life-or-death situations.  What seems like a minute may only be a few seconds.  You think you only fired 3 or 4 rounds but you shot your gun empty.  When you say you're not sure or you don't remember you're actually telling the truth.  And the truth better be the only thing you tell after a shooting.  If you're caught in the smallest lie you're probably going to prison.

 

And all of these things I say come straight from Mas Ayoob.  Nobody on the planet knows more about the use of lethal force (and what happens after) than Ayoob.

Edited May 1, 2014 by Darth Saigus

[james lambert 3,059]

Darth has it correct!!!!

Jim

[XD45 7,124]

Get and read "In the Gravest Extreme" by Mas Ayoob.  Then read it again.  Then get Stressfire by Mas Ayoob and read that.

[Ronin38 2,117]

Some of Mas's videos are up on YouTube as well. Search for them, and watch them carefully!

 

I still chuckle when he refers to himself as "the little Arab" and his .44 revolver is "Fluffy." 

 

[Arik 565]

You fire until the threat is ended. As long as your life is in danger, use whatever force is necessary to stop the threat. Once the thread is stopped, lethal force becomes murder.

 

That. Shoot someone in the back and chances are it wont work out in your favor. I know of a nam vet who did that and is either just out of prison or should be getting out shortly. He shot till there ws no threat but the intruder had his back turned and was technically not a threat

[ktcm7271 999]

Two different cop buddies of mine told me (off the record) that if you defend yourself, make sure the assailant is dead and in your house. My rule is: large caliber (.45 or .44), one or two shots for me. For my wife (she's tiny and only has a .22 pistol and a .410 pump) shoot until you feel safe.

[XD45 7,124]

Two different cop buddies of mine told me (off the record) that if you defend yourself, make sure the assailant is dead and in your house.

That advice will get you a long stay in prison.

 

What are you going to do to make sure they're dead?  Put one in his head just to make sure?  Wait until he bleeds out before you call the cops?

 

You do that and it's murder.  If you take any action at all to further harm the assailant after the assault has stopped you're legally wrong and most likely will forfeit your self defense case.

 

And as far as making sure the assailant is in your house, what are you going to do if you have to defend your life in your yard, drag the assailant inside?

 

That advice is wrong and flatly stupid.

 

You defend yourself when and where the threat is.  No more, no less.

Edited April 30, 2014 by Darth Saigus

[breid1970 327]

I refer to training and rarely if ever take internet advice. But that's just my personal opinion.

[read_the_wall 614]

Fire till empty,,,,,then beat them with a shovel for good measure

 

 

Really, I think Darth nailed it.

 

 

 

 

"You don't shoot to kill.  You don't shoot to wound.  You shoot to stop.  Never stop shooting until the threat is stopped.  And never shoot after the threat is stopped.

 

Don't get tunnel vision.  The threat you just stopped may not be the only threat.  As soon as that threat is stopped, scan your surroundings and reload.

 

And be aware that how you answer questions after the event will have consequences.

 

"Why did you shoot him?" You say, "I was in fear for my life."  Any other answer can make you a murderer.

"How many shots did you fire?" You say, "I don't remember."  Any other answer can make you a liar."

[Dad2142Dad 6,559]

Shoot until the threat is stopped, do not move the body, call 911 ID yourself as a CWP holder and give short description. When authorities arrive have your weapon on the ground, explain to them what happened and you feared for your life.

[breid1970 327]

Call a lawyer. And just shut your mouth till he arrives.

[Jpanzer 1,265]

 Shoot until the threat is neutralized.....

[DLT 1,646]

Very interesting.  I was originally taught to shoot by my father and his friends who were instructors.  These men were all feds who were trained in the early 70's.  They taught me to shoot only one well placed shot.  Their reason was that more than one shot didn't look good to a jury.  Years later in the 90's, I had the opportunity to train under a local law enforcement officer.  He taught me to double tap to make sure the assailant was hit.  In the last few years, I've trained with different "professionals" who all tell me that the new rule is to do exactly what you guys recommend, that is to shoot until the threat is neutralized.  Funny how times change.  The thing to remember is that my father and his friends used revolvers, in the 90's they were transitioning from revolvers, and today, everyone uses high cap glocks.

[breid1970 327]

I still practice failure to stop drills. Two to the chest one to the head.

Edited May 1, 2014 by reid17

[termite 463]

When I was younger, the old man and everybody else would say " if you shoot 'em outside, drag'em in the house", but as was said earlier, that's just stupid, and even back then I new that. I've always told my wife to empty the gun, be it her Judge, the S12 or S410 at home with the drums, and then don't say shit to anyone until me or our lawyer gets there. She always says "but what about the doors or the walls of the house, we'll have to fix them" and I AGAIN tell her to empty the firearm, damn the doors or walls, they can be fixed, if she's dead, she can't be fixed, but I can sure as hell get some of the best lawyers to defend her in court. She just looks at me and says "Oh, you're right, OK".

 We got into a discussion at the local gun shop one day with a Local PoPo and when asked the same question, he told that he will shoot until the threat is stopped, even if he had to go to Wally World and buy more ammo, but will shoot until it is stopped, no more unless required. He also said that "stopped" does not have to mean dead, if the threat retreats and/or runs away, if you continue shooting and the bullets hit their mark in the wrong spot, you most likely are screwed, a gun is like a vehicle, you're supposed to be in control of it at all times, regardless.

[Dad2142Dad 6,559]

Very interesting.  I was originally taught to shoot by my father and his friends who were instructors.  These men were all feds who were trained in the early 70's.  They taught me to shoot only one well placed shot.  Their reason was that more than one shot didn't look good to a jury.  Years later in the 90's, I had the opportunity to train under a local law enforcement officer.  He taught me to double tap to make sure the assailant was hit.  In the last few years, I've trained with different "professionals" who all tell me that the new rule is to do exactly what you guys recommend, that is to shoot until the threat is neutralized.  Funny how times change.  The thing to remember is that my father and his friends used revolvers, in the 90's they were transitioning from revolvers, and today, everyone uses high cap glocks.

I would pose that the threats are better armed and on drugs that were not there in the 70's. Hence the need to keep firing until the threat is no longer............

[Photoguy 202]

Personally, I follow the same rule of firing until the threat has ceased.

[storm6490 2,768]

i was trained over and over to shoot center mass until the target stops.

[mancat 2,368]

Ask them, "how were you wronged in the past that makes you feel this way?"

 

"What can I, as a white male, do to ease your oppression?" You can skip this one if the attacker is white, in which case you might say "I know of a place nearby that has a lot of copper wire."

 

"Are you hungry or thirsty?"

 

"I voted for Obama, I'm not your enemy."

 

"You don't have to do this - I support raising the minimum wage."

 

"Violence never solves anything, so let's talk about this."

 

If all else fails, lean in for a bear hug.

 

Surely one of these methods will work, and murdering the attacker with an illegal gun (otherwise known as "stand your ground") will not be necessary.

[DogMan 2,343]

I haven't been in that situation, thankfully, but I have a feeling that whatever idea I have in my head right now will go right out the window when that boiling hot adrenaline is racing through my system. I think my basic instinct will be to fire at least three rounds in rapid succession no matter what, and I'll want to see him going down or moving away at that point or I'll keep firing individual rounds until I see he's no longer a threat.

[XD45 7,124]

Planning what to do and knowing what you'll do are not the same thing.  Until that worst case situation happens none of us knows what we'll do for sure.

 

But it has been proven that planning does affect the outcome of fights.  Those that have thought about the possibility of taking a life and have decided that they will if that situation happens are more likely to fire when it's necessary.  Those that have thought about the possibility of being wounded in a violent encounter and decided they will keep fighting are more likely to keep fighting when wounded.

 

One of the first things they taught us at Marine Corps boot camp was that we better get comfortable right now with taking life.  It was in our job description.  I thought it was silly at the time.  Why would anybody join the Marines if they weren't ready to take a life in the performance of duty?  But now I realize that not everybody joins for the same reasons, or thinks it through.  Especially when you're a dumb 18yo kid.

[U.S. Pratorean 1,234]

You say, "That person tried to kill me and I was in fear of my life " Regardless of the assailants' condition you say" I want to press charges". Then say " I know you are trying to ascertain what happened and I want to help any way I can but I cannot answer any more questions until my attorney is present.

[Ronin38 2,117]

Planning what to do and knowing what you'll do are not the same thing.  Until that worst case situation happens none of us knows what we'll do for sure.

 

But it has been proven that planning does affect the outcome of fights.

 

And so does Training! Training, lots of repetition and muscle-memory will take over when conscious thought goes away. 

[Sdustin 578]

Well you are shooting because of a that so you should shoot till there is no threat

[magsite20 1,664]

shoot rapidly for center of mass till the threat is gone, repeat as necessary.

or the Bill drill 2 to the body and 1 to the head.

 

plus always remember there's no 2nd place winner in a gun fight, you have to be 1st or you may be dead.

Edited May 1, 2014 by the 4th Doctor

[Sdustin 578]

The actual training I have centered on protecting the public from inmates escaping so we were most likely to be shooting them in the back running.