MikeD's Saiga-12 20rd Drum Magazine, information thread

[MikeD 541]

If you end up modifying the molds in any way before final production how hard would it be to have the molds where the side of the drum mag neck needs to be altered for the LRBHO to be molded that way from the outset? Would it interfere with shotguns not set up for LRBHO? I am sure grinding on a $200 drum will be terrifying ordeal for people who intend to use the LRBHO and just having that small section removed seems like such an easy thing to incorporate into the mold. Any thoughts?

When you modify a mold it is easy to add material to the product (by removing metal from the mold). But not as easy to remove material from the product ( because you have to add metal to the mold to fill the space you want removed). If you have seen the first AGP mags and the later runs.... notice the top rail that meets the receiver. When they modified it to hit better they removed to much metal and hench, have to hand grind some material off after it comes out of the mold.

 

People will half to remove the material off the mag for the lrbho. I think to few use them to encorp it into the design. I don't see any reason why it would effect the function of the drum in anyway.

[MikeD 541]

Sorry I didn't get the video up yesterday. I've been very mentally and physically exhausted. I promise I will get them up about 3 hrs or so after I get back from estimating jobs.

[RI_shotgunner 0]

You could call it the T-20..."T" for TERMINATOR

 

...OR MAYBE THE DECIMATOR...LOL

 

Let me film a good little segment of tree removal for your vid and you can use it for your other biz as well

 

I like the decimator

[Jake 98c/11b 0]

Mike, I may have missed it in the 11 pages (mostly crap) of postings but can you give me the dimensions of the drum you are building? I remember seeing the weight but not the diameter of the drum body.

 

Thanks and I am eagerly awaiting your product.

[Eric Pate 478]

You could call it the T-20..."T" for TERMINATOR

 

...OR MAYBE THE DECIMATOR...LOL

 

Let me film a good little segment of tree removal for your vid and you can use it for your other biz as well

 

I like the decimator

 

Its pretty corny but you could call it a "Gamma Mag" as a cheezy rip off of the Beta Mag.

[Pointer 21]

Mike, I may have missed it in the 11 pages (mostly crap) of postings but can you give me the dimensions of the drum you are building? I remember seeing the weight but not the diameter of the drum body.

 

Thanks and I am eagerly awaiting your product.

 

Mike hasnt given the exact measurement but there are pics on page 10 if that helps.

Edited May 8, 2007 by Pointer

[MikeD 541]

Mike, I may have missed it in the 11 pages (mostly crap) of postings but can you give me the dimensions of the drum you are building? I remember seeing the weight but not the diameter of the drum body.

 

Thanks and I am eagerly awaiting your product.

The diameter is roughly 6 5/8 inches. I forget exactly but I think in my first post it says how much longer it is than a factory 5 while attached. I am in the process of uploading a video to youtube that will show things better.

[MikeD 541]

You could call it the T-20..."T" for TERMINATOR

 

...OR MAYBE THE DECIMATOR...LOL

 

Let me film a good little segment of tree removal for your vid and you can use it for your other biz as well

 

I like the decimator

 

Its pretty corny but you could call it a "Gamma Mag" as a cheezy rip off of the Beta Mag.

I'm not sure about the name yet. I don't want to name it something like that though. I feel that a name like that is just asking for trouble. Be like naming it DD-20 (destructive device) If i call it anything other than a saiga-12 20rd drum I will probably go with "MD-20". I do apperciate the suggestions though and wouldn't mind hearing more.

[MikeD 541]

Update Post

 

I had some problems with the durability of the prototype. As mentioned before, the post that the gear sits on snapped right where the clip went to hold it on after about 10 rds. I drilled the post out and was going to bolt the to pieces back together. I couldn't find a bolt the right size (1/8 inch by 3 1/2 inches) What I used instead was a 1/8 inch rod of abs. I slide it through the 2 pieces and melted the ends down and it has held up ever since. 1/8 inch of abs is holding together what 1/4 inch of layered abs couldn't. Just goes to show how much stronger an injected mag will be than the prototyped one.

 

The problem with the prototype process is it is made of 1000's of layers applied one on top of the other. It leaves a grain kind of like wood. I needed where the tower meets the body to be against the grain so the tower wouldn't shear off. This made the grain running top to bottom which made the gear post and mag catch weak.

 

As you can see in the videos I was having a problem with the front mag catch. I had to repair it many times. Anyways. I wasn't able to do a complete mag dump ( because of the weight of a fully loaded drum being multiplied by the recoil.

 

First thing I did fire about 10 3inch mags through it and the gear post broke. After I fixed that I was afraid to fire anymore high brass through it. I did fire some Russian steel case 2 3/4 through it. They are about as long as your average 3 inch rd.

 

The video is a combination of 4 clips. I keep the rd count low to keep the drum lighter. The first clip shows a couple rds of walmart cheapo's and the front catch break. The 2nd shows 4 rds of remington cheapo's. the 3rd clip shows 5rds of speer lawman 8 pellet 00 buck. The 4th clip shows 10rds of mixed winchester and remington and the front catch break again.

 

Please note that the production model will be way way stronger. The front catch will have metal in it like the russian mags and the material and process will make it multiple times stronger.

 

I do need to get one more prototype made. I had to change something on this prototype and need to adjust the cad drawing. After I adjust the cad I would feel best to make another prototype to make sure the drawing is right. This will no doubt delay the production date. But I would rather be a couple weeks late and insure a quality product. I'm sure you can appreciate that. There is a prototype process that will make the proto out of fiber filled nylon. The process is called SLS. It is a lot more expensive than the FDM process (ABS plastic). I might have the next one made out of it so it will be stronger for testing. I am going to call the prototype company and find out just how much stronger the SLS is than the FDM process.

 

I am going to try to make it to the mold shop this week to make the adjustment to the cad drawing so I can get the ( hopefully and more than likely) last prototype made.

 

Hope you enjoy the video and can look past the prototype's weakness. It does show and prove function and existence though. Also shows size and looks. It won't be long and they will be available.

 

 

Read This I had to make the videos individual.

Video link: http://youtube.com/profile_videos?user=hellyeahdrum

Edited June 26, 2007 by Mike Davidson

[MikeD 541]

Damn it, just checked the video. It is only the first clip. Give me a minute to fix.

Edited May 9, 2007 by Mike Davidson

[G O B 3,516]

The Edsel was a great product idea that was rushed to meet an artificial deadline. Take the time to do it right.

[RDSWriter 5]

MD-20 is a bit too close to MD 20/20... aka Mad Dog, or as the proper description states "a fortified wine produced by Morgan David wineries."

[MikeD 541]

-->

QUOTE(G O B @ May 8 2007, 09:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Edsel was a great product idea that was rushed to meet an artificial deadline. Take the time to do it right.

I most definatly will make sure it is right. It sucks because I could have it out sooner if I went with the 2 3/4 only. But I think being able to funtion both rounds will be worth the delay. (now we will be able to fire frag-12 rds also) I wish!!!

[s2324 0]

MD-20 is a bit too close to MD 20/20... aka Mad Dog, or as the proper description states "a fortified wine produced by Morgan David wineries."

Where is the video. It says it was removed by user.

 

Scott E.

[MikeD 541]

For some reason when I upload the video to youtube it is only the first clip, but when I view the file in my Kodak Easy share it has them all in it. I am going to try and fix it. I might have to make them all seperate (which would suck).

 

Edit: Had to do them seperate Link in this thread post #312

Edited May 9, 2007 by Mike Davidson

[mccumber1916 1]

For some reason when I upload the video to youtube it is only the first clip, but when I view the file in my Kodak Easy share it has them all in it. I am going to try and fix it. I might have to make them all seperate (which would suck).

 

keep in mind it is your product...

don't rush to keep "us" happy

[MikeD 541]

keep in mind it is your product...

don't rush to keep "us" happy

I am going to take my time for "us." I want a closet full of these:devil: just as bad as the rest of you. I wanted a drum so bad I made one. But to have a high quality drum I had to put it into production and that is what has brought me to where I'm at today . But I want a high quality reliable drum also. Not some rushed piece of junk.

[scoutjoe 276]

But I want a high quality reliable drum also. Not some rushed piece of junk.

 

you know once happens when it comes out right?

 

 

[mccumber1916 1]

i have a ? / thought mike...

what about arma-coating the drum?

it would be virtually indestuctable

 

 

darrell

[MikeD 541]

i have a ? / thought mike...

what about arma-coating the drum?

it would be virtually indestuctable

 

 

darrell

I've never heard of it, what is it? I am all about stronger! My Uncle retired from GM and was a plastic injector. He told me the name a 10% fiber filled material ( forget the name now) that he said was strong enough that it made out of, that you would get tired of stomping it before you could break it. I am still rolling around differnt materials. I never could find out what the russians use. I am guessing it might be their own recipe ( after all Izhmash is a military factory).

[DevL 0]

i have a ? / thought mike...

what about arma-coating the drum?

it would be virtually indestuctable

 

 

darrell

I've never heard of it, what is it? I am all about stronger! My Uncle retired from GM and was a plastic injector. He told me the name a 10% fiber filled material ( forget the name now) that he said was strong enough that it made out of, that you would get tired of stomping it before you could break it. I am still rolling around differnt materials. I never could find out what the russians use. I am guessing it might be their own recipe ( after all Izhmash is a military factory).

 

Arma-Coat is paint.

Edited May 10, 2007 by DevL

[jrance@iacwds.com 716]

www.armacoatings.com/auto.html

They use it for lining truck beds.

 

Link doesn't work for some reason, but type it in and you get there. Sorry.

Edited May 10, 2007 by 1911

[mccumber1916 1]

it is hi grade truck bed liner... spray on

[KyleWeiss 0]

I don't think the "MD-20" is bad, but it's so... sterile... for such a great product. "Bad-Ass Motherfucker-20," isn't really a great name to pitch majority sales, either... Hmm... "Davidson-20" is kind of regal sounding... *shrugs*

 

KW

[Jake 98c/11b 0]

Mike, I'm not sure the spray on bedliner will do you any good but I can't say for certain. From what I have seen I think you are well on your way to a successful product. What materials are you looking at using for the body of the drum?

[jaak 0]

just please dont call it anything to give the libtards ammo to use against us... (ie: decimator, bamf-20, terminator, etc.)

[whatmanual 44]

On 2nd thought..... self removing my name suggestion for now

Edited May 12, 2007 by whatmanual

[inparidel 4]

You can't use a vertical foregrip (essential for good control and scores in legitimate IPSC/IDPA sports) with this bulky and awkward, and fatal to the S-12, political landmine. Even using a standard foregrip, the damn thing will hit your forearm constantly. Enjoy, folks. It's all gone now anyway.

Edited May 15, 2007 by inparidel

[mccumber1916 1]

You can't use a vertical foregrip (essential for good control and scores in legitimate IPSC/IDPA sports) with this bulky and awkward, and fatal to the S-12, political landmine. Even using a standard foregrip, the damn thing will hit your forearm constantly. Enjoy, folks. It's all gone now anyway.

 

i thought about the foregrip myself...

krebs has a siderail mount that kicks out 10 degrees

or use one on the side

just a thought

[Pointer 21]

You can't use a vertical foregrip (essential for good control and scores in legitimate IPSC/IDPA sports) with this bulky and awkward, and fatal to the S-12, political landmine. Even using a standard foregrip, the damn thing will hit your forearm constantly. Enjoy, folks. It's all gone now anyway.

 

Sure about that? I shoot vertical griped AK's with 75rd drums and AR's with a Beta mag with no problem.Mikes drum isnt much bigger than a 75rd AK drum.Havent they been shooting Thompsons with 100rd drums for decades?

Edited May 18, 2007 by Pointer