Saigas ranked the same as WASR's?????

[22_Shooter 1,560]

Up until today, I have yet to read anything bad about Saigas. I read this on another forum, tell me what you think. This post in no way will affect the way I think about Saigas, but it raised my eyebrow as to what this guy was thinking. The guy isn't completely bashing them, but I've never heard of some of the stuff he's saying. Here's the entire post, lemme know what you think.

 

Arsenal discontinued the milled versions because they cost too much to manufacture and not enough people willing to pay the extra for a much heavier AK while stamped AKMs have been the norm worldwide since introduction.......

 

As far as the SAIGA low price......... amazing what ya can accomplish with extremally low wage sweatshop level labor, cheap materials and cut corners like presicion fitted components, base grade steel versus 4130/4140 steel all CNC Machined to much tighter specs.....

 

like they say ya get what ya pay for generally, Go visit Izhmash arsenal and checkout the Saiga factory as opposed to the military weapons factory (no they are not made side by side with the military guns the rest of the world can buy) its like buying your tools from Harbour freight or Buying em at Sears with the SAIGA line being the HF comparison....... much lower end now come back to the states and go visit Arsenal........ now ya just walked into the Snap on tools warehouse with all carefully hand fitted parts, all in house produced parts are minimum 4130 grade steel etc.......... with each rifle assembled by one builder, no mass produced assembly line production, one guy start to finish carefully fitting each component no belt sanders used to fit parts either as ya will see at SAIGA but instead CNC to start with and fine tuned with hones and quality machinist files

 

American made or Chinese swap meet special......... thats why the Century Yugos are such a good compromise if ya must buy a ready built AK rather than build your own..... the Yugo's used all milled components other than the reciever itself, the parts were fitted for each rifle originally so one built from an all matching kit will be a lil nicer, this compilation is then assembled by a pro AK builder who Century now farms their builds out to....... While not as nice as onea my custom hand fitted virgin kit built Yugo's they are also $1000 cheaper if cost is an issue for your budget..... mine ya get extreme quality Century ya get a great set of components assembled on the same NODAK reciever as the high dollar gun ya are just buying used parts as opposed to virgin new parts, assembled as opposed to precision hand fitted etc....

 

In Russia the SAIGA is ranked exactly the same way a WASR/STG2000 are ranked in Romania..... they got the real deal Military spec AKs sold to armies around the world (Romania supplies more AKM Pattern rifles globally since Yugoslavia went under than any other country for military grade rifles) on one side ya got the WASR/STG2000 Factory....... with the much lower paid workers (as is the case with SAIGA) that have little reason to do more than the bare minimum, ya have the lower end of the parts supply etc... result... cheap AKMs for American buyers who think they are all the same anyhow so..... just needs a conversion to "look" like a military spec gun......

Edited November 26, 2007 by 22_Shooter

[MD_Willington 11]

Meh, could care less, mine works... whoop-de-do, they have CNC machines, hey so did NASA and that other fancy agency that F'd up that one satellite, one group used Imperial one group used metric... and those guys were f'n rocket scientists...

[loki0629 55]

Sounds like a gun snob to me.

 

"Oh my XYZ whatchamacallit is machined from Unobtainium and the design was done by MIT grads who became MENSA members at the age of 15...blah blah blah."

 

"So how well do you shoot it?"

 

"Er...not very."

 

They crank out AK's by hand in parts of Pakistan and you know what? I still wouldn't like being shot at by those weapons.

 

Bah. I appreciate good craftsmanship but I appreciate rugged functionality even more.

 

It kinda reminds me of the knife guys that swear by the steel and the tooling of their particular favorite brand and in the end, they don't really put it to the use it was meant for. Me, I've busted two kabars without worrying about it. The money I spent on three kabars was still less than the $150 I paid for the Gerber BMF that I broke (and I babied that thing).

[loki0629 55]

edited for double post.

Edited November 26, 2007 by GunnyR

[22_Shooter 1,560]

I agree on all accounts, I just couldn't believe I was reading someone down-talk Saigas .

[ClickClickD'oh 1]

Something important to remember, the guy who posted that over on THR builds custom AKs for customers. Of course he's going to talk down the Saiga. They're cheap, easy to convert and accurate. He'll put himself out of buisness if he tells you to get a Saiga.

 

That said, mine shoots 1 1/2" at 100 and has never failed to kill the deer it's aimed at. It might be a stinker in his opinion, but it has never failed to do its job... And that is what is important at the end of the day, not whose name is on it.

[Paladin 37]

Gun opinions are like A$$holes, everybody has one.

 

Here's mine:

I've owned some nice guns over the years. Fine craftsmanship and detail on the metal and wood, and I bought some just because they were beautiful.

 

Frankly, I can afford a benelli and I came real close to buying a Robinson XCR. But I stopped and considered what I wanted the guns for. Goto SHTF, not going to get cleaned, banged around, easy to maintain and fix, etc. I bought the Saiga's because they are tough, functional and reliable, not because of they are "custom hand fitted virgin built", etc. If that's what you want don't buy an AK.

 

I, just this weekend, was comparing my 240Z to my Porsche 944 Turbo. The Porsche is an extremely well built, high powered sports car, but every time I got it on the track I was afraid I was going to break it, and when it happens (and it will) it's going to cost a chunk of change to fix, with specialized and expensive parts. Also, It's a bitch to work on.

 

My 240Z has a thumping Ford V8 I stuffed in it, and is faster at Mid-Ohio than the 944T. I run it 100% and when it breaks (and it will) the parts are common and cheap. And it's easy to work on.

 

You can compare Saiga's to Benellis/XCR's the same way.

 

I like to tinker, and it's way cool that I have taken apart the S12 and now the Sx39 and built them they way I want. The S12 has never missed a beat since I finished it. I know my weapons very well and know they will go boom when I hit the bang switch. I didn't buy them to hang on the wall.

[Cryptkeeper 0]

i love hearing from ppl that have never owned an item and thinks they know all about it. at 1 time it almost sounded like he was comparing how the saiga is made to how an AR is made. and by his theory AR's arnt made at the same fatory as M4's so by his therory the AR's are made of lower quality which i dont think it matters if its made in the same building or not as long as the effort for qualty is the same or better. i work in a factory its more of the management chooseing the quality of the parts/material for me to put it to gether or to press it most factories go to smaller factories in the area makeing the parts the main factory assembles it to make the item example do you think GM makes car seats at their assembly plant or the nuts & bolts they use? no they order it from another factory. of corse AK's are not percision made they are made that way for a reason, so 1 grain of sand doesnt stop it from fireing. i would think the military weapons would be the cheaper made weapons so they can get the contracts to make the weapons cost as low as possable. just to know has any1 shot over 5-10k rounds out of thier saiga how has it held up? and if its 308 rnds well that should really tell you.

Edited November 27, 2007 by Cryptkeeper

[topmaul 42]

real quick,

I have a Saiga .223 and a Wasr 3 the two side by side the Saiga is a much better made weapon, not only is it put together better it is much heaver. the reciever is much thicker.

Who ever wrote this must work for century.

 

not to mention the fact that the Saiga .223 works out of the box the Wasr required a lot of work to fix.

Edited November 26, 2007 by topmaul

[22_Shooter 1,560]

All very good points. Honestly, that guys post is the first time I've ever read anything bad about Saigas.

 

 

My 240Z has a thumping Ford V8 I stuffed in it, and is faster at Mid-Ohio than the 944T

 

I hate to bring my own thread off topic , but, a Ford motor in a Nissan?

 

Edited to add: After thinking about it, I remember reading on a Civic forum a long time ago, some guy put a Corvette power plant into a Civic hatch . Never kept up with the build, but that is some crazy stuff.

Edited November 26, 2007 by 22_Shooter

[RangerM9 1]

All very good points. Honestly, that guys post is the first time I've ever read anything bad about Saigas.

 

 

My 240Z has a thumping Ford V8 I stuffed in it, and is faster at Mid-Ohio than the 944T

 

I hate to bring my own thread off topic , but, a Ford motor in a Nissan?

 

Edited to add: After thinking about it, I remember reading on a Civic forum a long time ago, some guy put a Corvette power plant into a Civic hatch . Never kept up with the build, but that is some crazy stuff.

 

 

Lol......my brother's boss has a dodge V-10 rammed into a jeep grand cherokee - god only knows why.....and he got shot 2 weeks ago as someone was trying to carjack him for it!.......

 

i'll stick with rather boring looking subaru....and not get carjacked.....thanks.....

[SuAside 2]

with each rifle assembled by one builder, no mass produced assembly line production, one guy start to finish carefully fitting each component no belt sanders used to fit parts either as ya will see at SAIGA but instead CNC to start with and fine tuned with hones and quality machinist files

I think Mr Ford would like to have a word or two with that guy, if he were still alive.

 

that said, of course Saigas arent the top of the line handcrafted raceguns... they're not meant to be...

 

PS: nearly all FN-H work are assembled by a dozen female workers. does that affect reliability? hardly...

[Twinsen 86]

The Saiga is damn fine for an AK, and the BHO makes it the nicest ever (tied with the Galil) IMHO.

 

As for the cars, I'd have kept with a Nissan or Chevy engine in anything I own. Not a big Ford believer. And I don't see the point in the vette engine in a civic. You'd have to literally strengthen every single part of the frame, and replace every single suspension component to handle it. After doing so, and putting on the right amount of rubber, you'd have no room in the wheelwells, you'd have to go tube frame for it to even be feasable. Buy a Nissan.

 

Some aftermarket company is putting the LS2 into the Solstice.

My friend loves those things, I told him a car magazine did a review on them.

He asked how fast they were.

I said, I forgot the number, but it was slower than the vette.

He had this shocked look on his face and said, "WHAT?!"

"Did you not expect it to be heavier than the vette? Did you think that frame was meant for that power?"

[22_Shooter 1,560]

As for the cars, I'd have kept with a Nissan or Chevy engine in anything I own. Not a big Ford believer. And I don't see the point in the vette engine in a civic. You'd have to literally strengthen every single part of the frame, and replace every single suspension component to handle it. After doing so, and putting on the right amount of rubber, you'd have no room in the wheelwells, you'd have to go tube frame for it to even be feasable. Buy a Nissan.

 

I agree that the "civ-ette" would be quite the task, seeing as how much fitting and strengthening would have to happen. But the story behind it is something like this: The guy who owns the Civic hatch got hit by the guy who owned the Vette, both insurance company label each car "totalled", the guy who owns the Civic gets to keep his hatch and buy the Vette at a ridiculously low price. So the hatch had to have major bodywork/rebuild done to it anyway, and apparently the Vette motor wasn't in that bad of shape. That's the story as I remember it, but then again, this was about a year ago that I read it.

[headshot 52]

The guy is being a snob because you can build a real russian AK with a saiga for less than you can get type I, II, or III parts kits for.

 

Either that or he feels like a sucker for buying an Arsenal AK for 900+ bucks.

 

The guy can lick my asshole. All of my saigas are as reliable, accurate, and tough as any other AK.

Edited November 27, 2007 by headshot

[22_Shooter 1,560]

The guy can lick my asshole. All of my saigas are as reliable, accurate, and tough as any other AK.

 

[headshot 52]

The guy can lick my asshole. All of my saigas are as reliable, accurate, and tough as any other AK.

 

 

 

I will add "if not more" to that statement. The .223 saiga i used to own, as well as the 2 S308s I own outshoot nearly all other aks I have shot with the exception of the Yugo M90 in .308. I will admit that the Yugo AKs were really well-built. I have shot veprs which are on par and Arsenal Aks, and for the money Saigas win hands down. There are no real advantages in terms of function and accuracy with other AKs.

 

However, I love ALL AKs.

[Motopilot1 37]

i own both saiga 12 and wasr and the saiga is a much better manufactured rifle nicest ak for the money hands down that being said harbor freight kicks ass. cost you half as much last you twice as long i guess the guy did get one thing right in his comparrison of saigas and harbor freight

[Bvamp 604]

to clarify something here -

 

the pre-EAA saigas, well, were pretty damned bad for finish overall. the first EAA saigas were a LITTLE better, but also have massive tool marks on them, etc etc. the last eaa guns, apparantly they watch this forum in russia, and the other gun forums, and those werent as bad. the current RAA saigas, well, are MUCH MUCH better overall than the earlier ones. how do I know this? well, I pick every saiga in every store and collection up, and take very good looks at them, and make notes.

 

they apparantly listen to thier buyers.

 

edit - Ill take a finish reflection picture of my 01 saiga and my 06 saiga side by side to show you what I mean. trying to secure an older one for my collection as well, in another chambering. not sure if I will be able to though. that one's finish and fit is incrementally as bad as the two I have now. the tool marks on that one is worse than on my SAR1. I still want it though.

Edited November 27, 2007 by Bvamp

[Cryptkeeper 0]

i must have gotten one of the last EAA saiga-308 22" i bought mine new 3 months after EAA announced they have stopped importing them. and the mag. grab was on (lol). mine looks just fine it looks like a new weapon finely made ( for an AK) no marks on mine at all

[Paladin 37]

All very good points. Honestly, that guys post is the first time I've ever read anything bad about Saigas.

 

 

My 240Z has a thumping Ford V8 I stuffed in it, and is faster at Mid-Ohio than the 944T

 

I hate to bring my own thread off topic , but, a Ford motor in a Nissan?

 

Edited to add: After thinking about it, I remember reading on a Civic forum a long time ago, some guy put a Corvette power plant into a Civic hatch . Never kept up with the build, but that is some crazy stuff.

 

Check out HybridZ.org Crazy guys like me stuff Chevys, Mopars, Jag V12's, turbo Mazdas, etc into Z's. Lightweight chassis + HP = fast. (2600lbs/396HP-400ftlb) And yes, they handle great. Mine is built for road racing.

 

 

 

 

 

I don't worry about carjacking-thats what concealed carry permits are for.

[chris410 0]

Wasr's are bottom of the barrel, to say a Saiga is no better than one is just ignorant. CAI is notorius for poor quality control, and their WASR's demonstrate this beautifully.

Mine had sharp edges on the magwell (sharp enough to cut skin) tooling marks all over, poor finish, and my buddies (WASR) bolt carrier will occassionally jump out of the rec. rails and get pushed back cock-eyed, not a mark of craftsmanship in my book.

AK-USA and Ted Marshall have both reworked Saiga's into accurate clones of the Russian AK variants, AK-USA is basically based on the Saiga line, I dont think this would be the case if they were junk.

That guy can kiss my ass. Try finding another Russian AK, other than the VEPR, you cant.

[rubicon923 0]

I think I know who posted this. I believe that he builds AKs for a living. I found his posts to be knowledgeable, but somewhat opinionated. The Saiga is probably better built than a WASR. But, one of his points that might be valid is that people assume that since Saigas are built in the same factory as the military rifles, Saigas are the same mil spec quality.

 

He compares the Saiga to a Yugo AK. I have both and the Saiga does not seem mil spec compared to the Yugo. But can't say for sure. The Yugo is built heavier which gives it a different feel than the Saiga.

 

Interesting discussion. Even if Saigas aren't built to the same level as the military rifles, Saigas are well worth the $276 I paid for my last one.

[22_Shooter 1,560]

I should send this WHOLE thread to that guy .

 

to clarify something here -

 

the pre-EAA saigas, well, were pretty damned bad for finish overall.

 

Could be he was talking about those, but if so, he should have said so. Some people might read that and be turned away from Saigas altogether, not knowing any better.

 

 

All very good points. Honestly, that guys post is the first time I've ever read anything bad about Saigas.

 

 

My 240Z has a thumping Ford V8 I stuffed in it, and is faster at Mid-Ohio than the 944T

 

I hate to bring my own thread off topic , but, a Ford motor in a Nissan?

 

Edited to add: After thinking about it, I remember reading on a Civic forum a long time ago, some guy put a Corvette power plant into a Civic hatch . Never kept up with the build, but that is some crazy stuff.

 

Check out HybridZ.org Crazy guys like me stuff Chevys, Mopars, Jag V12's, turbo Mazdas, etc into Z's. Lightweight chassis + HP = fast. (2600lbs/396HP-400ftlb) And yes, they handle great. Mine is built for road racing.

I don't worry about carjacking-thats what concealed carry permits are for.

 

Nice ride!!

 

 

I think I know who posted this. I believe that he builds AKs for a living. I found his posts to be knowledgeable, but somewhat opinionated. The Saiga is probably better built than a WASR. But, one of his points that might be valid is that people assume that since Saigas are built in the same factory as the military rifles, Saigas are the same mil spec quality.

 

He compares the Saiga to a Yugo AK. I have both and the Saiga does not seem mil spec compared to the Yugo. But can't say for sure. The Yugo is built heavier which gives it a different feel than the Saiga.

 

Interesting discussion. Even if Saigas aren't built to the same level as the military rifles, Saigas are well worth the $276 I paid for my last one.

 

Yeah, a guy a few posts up said he recognized the guy from THR as being an AK builder, and probably being biased.

[Motopilot1 37]

nice chev 280z

[macbeau 902]

I'll put my "sweatshop" Izhmash psuedo-AK .308 against any other battle rifle in the world and be proud to be an American capitalist. There is not a damn thing wrong with the Saiga and the others are fine too... But, the Saiga is non-elitist. Shoot well and master your firearm with the ammo it likes (and even the ammo it caugh's at...). Everything else is window dressing...

[dobravery 49]

You know what,

 

This guy is confusing "fit and finish," with accuracy and reliability.

I've heard of more people having Century Yugo or WASR functionality issues than Saiga (btw I have a Cent. Yugo).

Arsenal AK's don't shoot any better than Saigas.

Vepr has a more accurate orientated design, but compromises weight and balance.

 

This guy can go jump in a lake.

 

WASR are cheap because they're built cheap.

 

Saigas are cheap because of the whole sporterized stock and trigger setup is not as popular as the standard AK setup.

Look at Saiga prices after being professionally converted.

 

If you like the sport setup, or can do the PG/US part mod yourself, then Saigas are an awesome deal.

[dyi 0]

I think I know who posted this. I believe that he builds AKs for a living. I found his posts to be knowledgeable, but somewhat opinionated. The Saiga is probably better built than a WASR. But, one of his points that might be valid is that people assume that since Saigas are built in the same factory as the military rifles, Saigas are the same mil spec quality.

 

He compares the Saiga to a Yugo AK. I have both and the Saiga does not seem mil spec compared to the Yugo. But can't say for sure. The Yugo is built heavier which gives it a different feel than the Saiga.

 

Interesting discussion. Even if Saigas aren't built to the same level as the military rifles, Saigas are well worth the $276 I paid for my last one.

 

In that vein, a yugo will make everything else look like crap even Russian issued rifles. So its really just an attempt to make a point.

[Afrikaner 2]

i must have gotten one of the last EAA saiga-308 22" i bought mine new 3 months after EAA announced they have stopped importing them. and the mag. grab was on (lol). mine looks just fine it looks like a new weapon finely made ( for an AK) no marks on mine at all

They stopped inmporting them????

[headshot 52]

i must have gotten one of the last EAA saiga-308 22" i bought mine new 3 months after EAA announced they have stopped importing them. and the mag. grab was on (lol). mine looks just fine it looks like a new weapon finely made ( for an AK) no marks on mine at all

They stopped inmporting them????

 

 

EAA stopped importing them a while ago. Someone else, RAA, does now.