Franky 2 Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 (edited) Looks like there might be less 12's to go around. Or they're too late. Date joined should be a hint. Edited March 21, 2008 by saiga12fan Link to post Share on other sites
dodgeturbointerceptor 1 Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Mag Fed Ak Shotgun. nuff said. Link to post Share on other sites
Indy4570 0 Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 i don't see the 22 .308 being offered anywhere, 12 ga. ar hard to find in stock too. I would love one of each, shotguns and rifles! for now I have a S.308 and love it! Link to post Share on other sites
aresv 49 Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Already own a 12. My next pick would be a 5.45x39, or, if I had the resources to do some serious customizing.... 7.62x54R. Link to post Share on other sites
Franky 2 Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Already own a 12. My next pick would be a 5.45x39, or, if I had the resources to do some serious customizing.... 7.62x54R. interesting Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Well out of those choices I would have to say S-12 because I already have a S-410 and a S-20. Got quite a few S-12s too but they are the most popular Saigas hands down, and with more choices of styles, ammo, and accessories it's just the way to go. Also the way they keep skyrocketing in value they pretty much pay for themselves. If I had a choice of a new type Saiga not listed it would be a Tigr from Izhmash or a 5.45mm AK. Link to post Share on other sites
Eric Pate 478 Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Well out of those choices I would have to say S-12 because I already have a S-410 and a S-20. Got quite a few S-12s too but they are the most popular Saigas hands down, and with more choices of styles, ammo, and accessories it's just the way to go. Also the way they keep skyrocketing in value they pretty much pay for themselves. If I had a choice of a new type Saiga not listed it would be a Tigr from Izhmash or a 5.45mm AK. Izhmash is selling a Tigr? Are those still importable? I thought they were in the same boat as honest-to-god Dragunov SVDs. Hell, I'd buy a Tigr if its for a reasonable price. (And if I can put the SVD furniture on it of course ) Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 (edited) Saiga-12. Converted to proper configuration by none other than TROMIX! Why? 12ga is the most common shotgun gauge available. Powerful enough to stop a big block V8 with slugs. (We trained on how to do that in the Army using 12ga pumps, so YES, 12ga slugs WILL kill an engine!) Also, if a REAL Tigr is being imported and it's not ridiculously priced, I WANT ONE! I looked at the current crop of SVDs (yes, I know they're not the same (SIGH) ) and they look like they were made using a dull saw. Edited March 21, 2008 by patriot Link to post Share on other sites
sicktooth 8 Posted March 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 i didn't expect this many votes guys...keep em coming!!! if you VOTE, tell me WHY! Link to post Share on other sites
ffleudur 0 Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 i didn't expect this many votes guys...keep em coming!!! if you VOTE, tell me WHY! OK, I voted for the S12, because that was the first Saiga shotgun I looked for after getting the 7.62x39 Saiga and I decided to buy it for the same reasons other people in the group have indicated: more after-market accessories, more bang for the buck, and Bigger is Better. Now that I have an S12 though, I want to find an S20, just in case I get old enough to need a smaller shotgun. Too bad they don't make a 22LR version to plink cans with or I'd be in line for one of those. Bigger isn't necessarily cheap and it's getting to be expensive to feed my babies. Fortunately shotgun ammo hasn't risen in price as much as brass cased ammo in the past year. Good luck. You can't go wrong choosing any of them. Get one of each. Link to post Share on other sites
sicktooth 8 Posted March 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 have you ever looked at the Ciener kits for your 7.62? They are $200 and all it is is a bolt carrier and a bolt..NO MODS! cool as hell if you want a .22 AK or AR! gunna get one this summer... Link to post Share on other sites
Franky 2 Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Saiga-12. Converted to proper configuration by none other than TROMIX! Why? 12ga is the most common shotgun gauge available. Powerful enough to stop a big block V8 with slugs. (We trained on how to do that in the Army using 12ga pumps, so YES, 12ga slugs WILL kill an engine!) Also, if a REAL Tigr is being imported and it's not ridiculously priced, I WANT ONE! I looked at the current crop of SVDs (yes, I know they're not the same (SIGH) ) and they look like they were made using a dull saw. No disrespect, but where are your facts about the engine block? As far as I know. It'll kill the hoses n'shit but, lead doesn't go through steel (I'm not trying to start an arguement). Just a Q: Link to post Share on other sites
Franky 2 Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 i didn't expect this many votes guys...keep em coming!!! if you VOTE, tell me WHY! OK, I voted for the S12, because that was the first Saiga shotgun I looked for after getting the 7.62x39 Saiga and I decided to buy it for the same reasons other people in the group have indicated: more after-market accessories, more bang for the buck, and Bigger is Better. Now that I have an S12 though, I want to find an S20, just in case I get old enough to need a smaller shotgun. Too bad they don't make a 22LR version to plink cans with or I'd be in line for one of those. Bigger isn't necessarily cheap and it's getting to be expensive to feed my babies. Fortunately shotgun ammo hasn't risen in price as much as brass cased ammo in the past year. Good luck. You can't go wrong choosing any of them. Get one of each. Just use a .22 . Shit, wish I had 10 bore conversion. Link to post Share on other sites
Eric Pate 478 Posted March 24, 2008 Report Share Posted March 24, 2008 Why not go all the way... make it a four bore! Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted March 24, 2008 Report Share Posted March 24, 2008 Engine blocks shatter, as they are generally made of cast iron. BUT if a car or truck is coming at you it probably won't even slow down untill 10 blocks AFTER it runs over you. 4 bore would be awesome, but it was the first banned long ago in America. 10 ga is the largest we are allowed by our benovelent government. Still a S-10 with a 20 rd mag would be awesome. Bet that would scare Chuck Noris! Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted March 24, 2008 Report Share Posted March 24, 2008 S-12 Link to post Share on other sites
Franky 2 Posted March 24, 2008 Report Share Posted March 24, 2008 (edited) S-10 Sounds good. BTW Lead can't touch "Cast Iron". Inches thick. Sorry. Edited March 24, 2008 by saiga12fan Link to post Share on other sites
Franky 2 Posted March 27, 2008 Report Share Posted March 27, 2008 http://youtube.com/watch?v=fCcnNE11C-c Link to post Share on other sites
waltham_41 52 Posted March 27, 2008 Report Share Posted March 27, 2008 (edited) Actually certain spots on a engine block are quite thin, like around the freeze plugs on the sides of the motor block.. I am not sure if a 12 gauge slug wold penetrate there, but it would not surprise me if it cracked it. True that is just the water jacket, but it would drain the coolant and eventually cause the motor to overheat. Being that I don't have any training on disabling a car with slugs, I would shoot the front of the motor, where the timing chain is (on a standard V-8), if you bust the belt or chain the engine would stop running. Hitting the valve cover and mangling any pushrods would also cause major troubles. Or if you got a lucky shot and shattered the carb or throttle body, that would cause major problems for the engine, as would hitting the distributor or if the car doesn't have a distributor, hitting the coil pack would cause immediate stopping of the motor. Needless to say filling the radiator will holes will cause eventual overheating. But as a poster point out above, none of these would cause the car to stop in its tracks, it would continue to roll until it hit something or ran out of momentum. In my untrained opinion, you would probably be just as good blowing out the tires on the car or killing the driver. FWIW, I saw a specialty shotgun round on the internet that was guaranteed to pierce the steel wheels on a car, which is approx 3/16" steel. Edited March 27, 2008 by waltham_41 Link to post Share on other sites
jrance@iacwds.com 716 Posted March 27, 2008 Report Share Posted March 27, 2008 Easier and more effective to shoot the driver/operator? Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted March 27, 2008 Report Share Posted March 27, 2008 In my earliest days of law enforcement, I had an Ithaca Mag 10 Roadblocker. Wish I'd never sold it. The S-12 may not do what the Mag 10 could in one shot, but I can put more rounds on the target and it will be effective. Link to post Share on other sites
Franky 2 Posted March 27, 2008 Report Share Posted March 27, 2008 The only thing I could see penetrating in any way would be Flechettes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flechette Link to post Share on other sites
sicktooth 8 Posted March 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2008 The only thing I could see penetrating in any way would be Flechettes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flechette of god those things are SO BAD ASS!!! i remember hearing a story about being SO overwhelmed with enemy's at one point that we took our artillery aimed it as low...being as horizontal as possible and fired a shit ton of flechettes at them. when they went to do a body count, people were tacked to trees and there firearms tacked to THEM! this is one artillery round your NOT going to get away from! i believe they were banned for being to overly mutilating to the body...why are there laws like that? you cant make a person MORE dead, so who cares how mangled their body's are!!! DEAD IS DEAD...unless its a zombie... Link to post Share on other sites
Franky 2 Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 NICE. Link to post Share on other sites
Eric Pate 478 Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 I believe that flechettes fired from a 12 gauge round have insufficient velocity to impart much tissue damage due to their incredibly low mass. I don't think they're banned, just rarely used. Doubt they would do much to an engine. Definately work outta rockets and artillery though. Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 I have an affinity for the Federal "Expander" sabot slugs. Link to post Share on other sites
WHITE 3 GOLF 2 Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 S-12 "Let Freedom Ring With A Shotgun Blast." (Machine Head) Link to post Share on other sites
waltham_41 52 Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 The only thing I could see penetrating in any way would be Flechettes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flechette of god those things are SO BAD ASS!!! i remember hearing a story about being SO overwhelmed with enemy's at one point that we took our artillery aimed it as low...being as horizontal as possible and fired a shit ton of flechettes at them. when they went to do a body count, people were tacked to trees and there firearms tacked to THEM! this is one artillery round your NOT going to get away from! i believe they were banned for being to overly mutilating to the body...why are there laws like that? you cant make a person MORE dead, so who cares how mangled their body's are!!! DEAD IS DEAD...unless its a zombie... I went into the Army in '77, and talked to one of the tank commanders in my company that actually saw a flechette round used in Vietnam and he described it very similar to what is described above, and he said it was so devastating that he could still remember it vividly in his mind like it was the day that he had seen it happen.. Link to post Share on other sites
Franky 2 Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 I can't think of anything worse. Beehive coming at ya. Link to post Share on other sites
Twinsen 86 Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 S-12 because I only have 4 round mags for my .410, whereas I have 10's and a 20 coming for the 12. I might have answered .410 if I had some mags though. We'll never know now. Link to post Share on other sites
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