Twinsen 86 Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 I haven't read it all yet, but it seems that Wraithmaker has released converted Saigas with Wraithmakers called the "Model 1" or something? I just thought I'd give everybody a heads-up that the Saiga made the news... under the name Wraithmaker. *shudder* Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 they will all come here, no worries. They really do think they solved the Russian quality control issues, from what I know. They may have done so, but so has EVERYONE that sells conversions, before and after them. More publicity. More controversy. Its all good for business. check my signature line. Im done pussy footing around..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
headshot 52 Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 Awesome!!! The quicker people learn about that shitty company, the quicker they'll disappear. Saiga owners who actually give a fuck will easily find this site anyway. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 As soon as I start shipping I am going to advertise in Shotgun News. Their little show and means to exploit will soon be over there as well. Who is going to by a WM for $330 when there is a drum selling for $215. I am going to put in a big ass ad " The saiga-12 drum that works!" "No expensive mod required like the competition's drum!" Do your research on both at forum.saiga-12.com before buying!" "Closed Design!" "Almost half the weight!" "A fraction the parts!" "Simple, reliable design in true AK fashion!" and a bunch of other nice stuff like that . I could go on forever. It should be enough to make most people second guess and research a little harder. What can I say, they asked for it. They started with me first and even started again after we had a truce... so like I said before ... Now it's war and they can't beat me. They are going to be sorry they ever crossed me and viewed the saiga-12 community as their prey. What can I say... What a bunch of dumb asses! I'm sure you all know a guy here and there that just thinks they are absolutely brilliant, when actually they aren't smart enough to realize everyone around them thinks and knows they are dumber than dogshit ( to quote Waltham41 again)! I know they ghost here so here's to you WM. Suck it up while you can... you are just about through ripping us off! Maybe you guys can start making some space age lawn ornaments or something. Because it won't be long that your only sells in firearm accessories is going to be for laughable door stops. One thing... on your way down.... think back on how we tried to be behind you here and how your own actions has destroyed you and your name. Even if you fixed your POS, I doubt you will ever be salvageable Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 Who did the review? Kokalis or Fortier? did they like it or call it a steaming pile of...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 Mike, please consult Max or the forum staff here first, ok? Lets do this logically. I liked the WM product, AFTER they tuned the gun and drum together....lthe whole point is that it needed to be meshed togheter first. THAT I am not happy with. This will be my LAST comment as general staff of Saiga-12.com. (hence blue man group). We apprecitate all of your patience, and understanding. You all know that we look out for you all, and just want these guns proliferated into the American public. I can ASSURE you all, that this is what we have striven to do. When you chrage 350 for the part and 200 for the work to the gun, you can afford shotgun news. when you cant pay that, you get the "clan" we are a part of..... this has and will be our job, and our niche. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 Jugg, the wraithmaker is a FINE product......once you tune the gun to it..... Ill be damned if I TUNE my gun with 10k rounds down it to ANY part. period. I WILL SAY that once it has been TUNED, it works flawlessly. I can give them in thier defense that much. But so do my 5 round mags...... (I carry a little anger and personal resentment through it all, and yada yada etc). screw me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ArcFault 4 Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 check my signature line. Im done pussy footing around..... Tell us the story? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jrance@iacwds.com 716 Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 Cadiz Gun Works 117 West Market St Suite B Cadiz, OH 43907 Phone# 740-942-4867 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 (edited) Not sure if you want to go posting OTHER people's details, there 1911. Which number did you just post, btw? do you even know? ...it will be forthcoming, soon. Dont you all worry. This has been an EXTREMELY long and winding road, which is confusing at times, as well as highly frustrating. I decided to "go for it" about a year ago, and here I am. Go figure. Dont start calling numbers that arent given out. You never know which # you might be calling, that is in the system, and not updated to the second! We will make you all aware of EXACTLY what is going on, soon enough. I have been given the "OK" to reveal certain things, and it was done in a simple signature edit here. OH.....I just wanted to state that we will NOT, repeat NOT undercut people like cutthroats. That is bad juju all around, and we wont be a part of it. We may, however, be able to offer some fast deals, and some unique ones..... And that isnt the # I have to release to you all for calls, so calm down. All will be revealed shortly. (man, you guys are like VULTURES I tell ya, damn) Edited March 29, 2008 by Bvamp Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 by the way, the wraithmaker has BEEN IN shotgun news for a while, now.....and I know what they (and others) pay for the ad. it aint cheap. I hope they make thiers, actually. when you send the gun to them, and they tune it to the drum, its pretty damn good, but I have to argue the same, that my gun is fine enough without that.....I am just trying to be fair, is all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jrance@iacwds.com 716 Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 (edited) ArcFault ask, "Tell us the story?". A simple google revealed an FFL by that name with those details. If it is the wrong Cadiz Gun Works or they have the wrong number listed you need to let them know. In answer to your question, "Which number did you just post, btw? do you even know?" the answer would be yes. It is the only one listed. If they have an unlisted number, I would have no way of knowing. If you did not want Cadiz Gun Works to be known it should not be in your signature line IMHO. When you wish to reveal all in your own sweet time, feel free to do so. I only assisted with the information you posted with the ONLY Cadiz Gun Works that I found. If you are offended then I apologize, although I cant imagine you being upset about this. I didn't notice that your available soon picture is a Class 3 weapon either. 1911 Edited March 29, 2008 by 1911 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hkusp45 8 Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 Don't get mad, but I have to disagree with ya! A fine product whether it be a t.v., shovel, coat, etc. is one that is well made, a good value for the money, and functions due to its specifications upon purchase. The WFaker fits none of these catagories. The only catagory it could remotely be put up against is that it's well made. Yes, it's solid construction, good materials, etc. , but ultimately not manufactured properly. If it doesn't work out of the box then it's shit. Would any of us modify our new big screen t.v. to fit the standard cable cord that comes out of the wall because the t.v. maker made their own fitting for their tv that isn't standard and has no adapter? Hell no, it would get returned and the company would have to get their shit together or else! The saiga is the standard and the accessories we choose have to be made to fit the standard not the other way around. As far as the other catagories are concerned, the WFaker failed miserably. It doesn't function due to it's original specs and is not a good value for the money. I have no doubt that if there are no legal changes for firearms in the near future, 2-3 years, that Mike will become a very wealthy individual because he did his research and quite honestly it's well deserved. It's the rarity that Joe Schmo the gun enthuisiast takes on the task of a new innovation and comes up with an unbeatable product and brings it to the marketplace. You are always polite and courteous on the board but at this point I don't see any reason to sugarcoat the WFaker for any reason. I'll bet anyone here a c note that in the next three years that product and probably the company won't be here. The marketplace is limited and with a likely democrap coming into office I predict Mikes drum will nail their well deserved coffin shut. P.S. I have some unrelated gun porn that I'll be posting shortly. I'm the proud father of a new take down suppressor for a sig mosquito. I'm waiting for the wife to be away to send it as she doesn't know I bought it ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AgentLQ 3 Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 I think it'd be cool to adapt a knoxx stock to fit on the Saiga 12s... but thats just me... I have a Mossy 590... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 I would like to give my own review in Shotgun News, of the biggest overpriced and over rated doorstop ever to be produced. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aresv 49 Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 They really do think they solved the Russian quality control issues, from what I know. Yup, that sadly seems to be what Wraithmaker believes. It's just funny that they had to "fix" a 60+ year old design known for absolute reliability. Then they blame it on loose tolerances. Sorry, no. In this case it's the loose tolerances that enable the reliability. Wraithmaker goofed at square one by designing a non-forgiving drum that only worked with a small sample of S-12's they had on hand at the time. Sorry Wraithmaker. It ain't Kalashnikov's fault your drum is a finicky piece of you-know-what. Should have done your homework before going into volume production. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 "Should have done your homework before going into volume production." nuff said Quote Link to post Share on other sites
joelrod47 373 Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 As I've stated on numerous occasions, I'm not a tech guy, but I know a couple of guys who are, and it seems so ridiculous to me that someone would take to market a product that requires a $200 modification to the recipient gun to work properly !! Especially when the problem involved was a simple modification to the feed angle........ It doesn't get much more arrogant than that......... That just says that rather than correct their manufacturing oversight, they'd rather stick it to the consumer for $200 each, and have the purchaser pay for their error. They'd rather fuck their customers than admit an error and institute a recall................. NOT a fine product on that basis, is it..........?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
madmax4x4 68 Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
deerollman 0 Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 i saw this today. apparently, they are "making" this "wraithmaker model 1 shotgun", with the MSRP of $1950.00 you cant make this stuff up. the review was critical of loading it past 18 rounds, and emphasized that it was a PITA to load in general. otherwise it was a positve review. mike, imho, you would be wise not to annouce youer advertising plans here. assuming that the drums work well, which i fully expect, i will be giving you good press on falfiles, my haunt. i have a sneaking suspicion im going to wish id bought ten more at the discount rate. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THE_HUNTER 2 Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 My friend and I went to a gunshow and Saiga's came up of course.He mentioned about the Wraithmaker article and I set him straight on the doorstops they are and to wait for Mike D.'s drums Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MickeyMouse 0 Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 the review was critical of loading it past 18 rounds, and emphasized that it was a PITA to load in general. otherwise it was a positve review. I caught that too. I am HIGHLY suspicious of ANY mag that fails to operate reliably at it's stated capacity. Sounds like the WM should be advertised as an 18 rounder. I don't do the short loading thing with any gun I own; either I FIX THE MAG or get rid of it. Any mag that is a PIA to load should be sold WITH A LOADER included, or at least available and suggested. Otherwise, what good is the thing? I can see it now - a LULA loader for a Saiga mag or drum !!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Twinsen 86 Posted March 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 The review also said that Saiga magazine latches are all very different and shitty, and that for $50 Alliance will fix your gun to work with the drum. I've never have a Saiga-12 magazine that didn't fit in my shotgun, I have no idea what is wrong with the Wraithmaker that it won't work with all Saigas. I really like Shotgun News, but man I do not like their reviews. The Shotgun News is fantastic for reading through a pile of milsurp shit and gun parts. I'm glad it exists. But wow, they reviewed the IO STG-2000 favorably. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 I have no idea what is wrong with the Wraithmaker that it won't work with all Saigas. LOL I do. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 I AGREE. dont get me wrong. having tried the FREE test drum MD handed over, I will endorse him. Hell, he dont want modifications done to my gun, too? Lets not go beating the dead horse, as was put above. If i needed servicing and reliability work, I would probably go to one of a number of guys, wraithmaker crew included. HOWEVER, my gun does not appear to have ever needed, nor does it appear to need servicing, any time soon. sorry for my neutralish stance, here guys. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 If I needed work done on one of my S-12s I would not send it to WM simply because I do not like their business practices. But that is my decision to make. Isn't it great that we live in a country where we can make such decisions! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 Suuuuuuuuuuure I'm going to modify my $1300 Tromix that works with EVERY mag I have, factory or otherwise (Don't have a WM mag) so it will work with his drum! SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURE! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paladin 37 Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 Hey Mike, in your ad in SG you could have a "customer reviews" part where customers are quoted about your product. Hell, you could lift the quotes straight from here. quotes like.. "Wow, great drum! worked flawlessly right out the box without any modifications to my gun. Great workmanship! " "I learned about them on Saiga 12.com, they have had great reviews!" That way you don't have to count on some gun rag writer to pick your product for review. Just an idea. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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