brutus 0 Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 The word "sniper" means various of things to alot of different people. * With a delta force sniper, a .50 caliber shot half way across across a country may define peoples idea of a sniper * To a varmiter, an eyeball shot to a groundhog at 700 yards defines a sniper * To a hunter, a perfect shot on a running ram across a rugged canyon would indicate sniper-like skill * To the marine scout sniper, being able to move in and out of position unnoticed, survive for extended periods without support collecting intel, and administering accurate fire undetected is sniper skill * To a police sharpshooter, Putting that bad guy down with a ultra-precise shot at less than 200 yards will get you called a sniper * The guys who were originally called snipers, they made precise shots at little birds (snipes) from short distances * To troops and civilians on the ground in conflicts all over the world, anyone making precise shots from a concealed position, whether it be from a window accross the street or out of a storm drain at passing vehicles, is a sniper. As for the saiga 500 yd shot, The 308 is your best option. And if you are hellbent on doing it with a military-grade semi-auto rifle, the Saiga is also you cheapest option. If you are not Hellbent on a mag fed semi-auto, the Savage option is good advise. I am currently building and testing a 308 Saiga and trying to get some accurate distance shots. With $1,200 optics, a re-crown, benchrest, meaured distance, known wind speed, direction, tempurature, and humidity, magazine out single shot, and match ammo - I can currently get about a 10" 5-shot group at 500 yards (best) and 1" at 100yds. I am currently changing optics, mount, and going to test different loads and will post results in a couple of weeks. Please be minful that this is the internet and people greatly exagerate both extremes of every topic. People who say its imposible to hit with a saiga at 500yds are wrong, they assume this because they can not do it. But also, the guy in this thread who says he gets 1 MOA at 500 yards with iron sights only is really full of it, because he is a mall ninja. Very good post! This is one of the best descriptions that I've read. Well done! I have been wondering for a long time what all the talk is about that sniping thing, I have read the treads and rationalized the meaning until I FINALLY FOUND OUT WHAT IT IS ALL ABOUT See Attached I just dont understand what all the hype is a about a little bird. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
t90 0 Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 I THINK THE BEST SAIGA TO SHOOT AT 500 YARDS IS A SAIGA 12 THAT FIRES A GUIDED MISSLE FROM ITS 12 GAUGE BARREL Quote Link to post Share on other sites
t165 30 Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 I THINK THE BEST SAIGA TO SHOOT AT 500 YARDS IS A SAIGA 12 THAT FIRES A GUIDED MISSLE FROM ITS 12 GAUGE BARREL Cool! Where can my buddies and I buy one of those? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PinkFloyd 63 Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 If you answered x.39, please leave... My vote is none... I'd take my Remington 700 in 30-06. Done. Any questions? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 Any of these would be perfect! Saiga for "sniping" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PinkFloyd 63 Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Any of these would be perfect! Saiga for "sniping" BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA .... *cough* lol you kill it I'll grill it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Aw... Isn't it cute when a boy falls in love with a new toy! Maybe he ment lay down effective fire at 500 yds rather than snipe. The Saiga should be able to keep heads down at that range but deer hunting or tight groups? Not sure dont have a range that goes that far. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Clipped from the OP's first post: "its going to be for shooting stuff like gallons of milk, dummies and steal plates at around 500 yards... but i also want a Sniper look to it." Not a "sniper rifle" Just something that he'll think looks "kewl" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gopher 7 Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 The word "sniper" means various of things to alot of different people. * With a delta force sniper, a .50 caliber shot half way across across a country may define peoples idea of a sniper * To a varmiter, an eyeball shot to a groundhog at 700 yards defines a sniper * To a hunter, a perfect shot on a running ram across a rugged canyon would indicate sniper-like skill * To the marine scout sniper, being able to move in and out of position unnoticed, survive for extended periods without support collecting intel, and administering accurate fire undetected is sniper skill * To a police sharpshooter, Putting that bad guy down with a ultra-precise shot at less than 200 yards will get you called a sniper * The guys who were originally called snipers, they made precise shots at little birds (snipes) from short distances * To troops and civilians on the ground in conflicts all over the world, anyone making precise shots from a concealed position, whether it be from a window accross the street or out of a storm drain at passing vehicles, is a sniper. ... you forgot one... * a French guy hitting anything before rasing the white flag is a sniper Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gopher 7 Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 would a heavy set berral help with the accuracy in a siaga....? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
trapper308 0 Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 good posts fellows 308 for sure Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vintagedude88 16 Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Okay, I'm gonna hijack this thread. Really guys what is the practical range for a Saiga .308? With 16" barrel?: With 21" barrel?: Of course I am asking for practical range with some decent optic with say 16X mag with A.O. out to infinity. Just wondering what I can expect to get at a range. BTW, my range goes out as far as 700yds. I recently was able to hit a metal target at 300yds with my 4x mag scope with fixed parallax at 100yds. Probably lucky but it took a few trys before it happened. BTW about that guy hitting out to 500yds with a 16" barrell using Spanish ammo. Really?? No B.S.? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted July 19, 2009 Report Share Posted July 19, 2009 Not an easy question FC. BTW very jealous of having a 700M shooting range, I have just got to move out west one day. After you get past the limits of the ammo its a matter of shooting skill in any 4 MOA rifle, the .308 is capable of 700M surely. The S308 seems to fall in the 2.5 MOA range at least so effective range of the S308 would be depending on who is shooting out to 700M. By effective I mean laying down aimed fire for either suppression or hits. Consistent hits would be at a lesser distance but entirely dependent on shooting skill and weather conditions. The military uses the 300M figure as a tactical assumption for laying down fields of fire or rather they used to when the 308 was our round of choice. The 21" will give about 150FPS greater velocity than the 16" and at long ranges that would matter a little. Perhaps more important is that the 16" is easier to handle and more forgiving of shooter flaws while being less efficient. The 21" gains greater accuracy with iron sights and allows you to go to a shorter barrel if you wish. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
krusader 1 Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 -The S=.308 is the best for longer range work, BUT 500 YARDS? that is the territory of $$$$$$ semi's amd most decent bolts. If you think you are going there for less than $500 --keep dreaming, I don't know where you get your info but planty of rifles can shoot 500yds no problem. You don't have to spend an arm and a leg to do it. In fact if I can't shoot a rifle 500yds withought a scope I don't even want it which is why I'm in this forum to figure out if this rifle can preform at well over 500yds. Just to clerify, I'm not saying every rifle can but plenty of em can. And the steel plate thing, In the Marine Corp and out I have kept my 500yrd group so about 5" and I have never used a scope in my life. My next rifle will be my first scoped rifle. Let me steer this back in the direction that the op probably intended. This is an ak remake so dose it have the same accuracy problems or is it actually usefull at lets say over 800yds. (500yds is a joke) So you are actually saying that you can do a 5 inch group at 500 yards with open sights? Are you sure thats what you want to say? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wolverine 10,360 Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 The .50 cal BMG Saiga would get the job done. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
loki0629 55 Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 So you are actually saying that you can do a 5 inch group at 500 yards with open sights?Are you sure thats what you want to say? I've seen on this on qual ranges. Maybe not all 10 rounds but some guys shoot a center mass group that I could cover with my hand with 2 or 3 flyers. This is on an issue M16, prone, loop sling, and someone who knows what they are doing behind the trigger. I've pulled off head shots on the standard silhouette target for this range with open sights. I'd already qual'd as expert before heading to the 500 yard line (I was at 40 points) so I just started dicking around. I aimed high on the torso and started walking my rounds to the head. I missed three in the neck area so I think I ended up with a 47 that year. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paladin_Hammer 8 Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 (edited) Desert Dog (member here), claims to have made an MOA accurate Saiga .308. When you see the work he put into one (check pictures post), you start to wonder if it could be possible. He put a lot of work into that thing. Edited August 27, 2009 by Paladin_Hammer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zenmetsu 17 Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 (edited) I'd say... a Saiga-12 with a 17,500" barrel would be your best bet. You might need slightly hotter loads, but you should score a hit. Edited August 27, 2009 by zenmetsu Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SenatorCongressman 0 Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 If you answered x.39, please leave... My vote is none... I'd take my Remington 700 in 30-06. Done. Any questions? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paladin_Hammer 8 Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Damn some of you for having more money than me... Grr... Nice rilfe SenatorCongressman. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 Desert Dog (member here), claims to have made an MOA accurate Saiga .308. When you see the work he put into one (check pictures post), you start to wonder if it could be possible. He put a lot of work into that thing. Just re-crowned the barrel and used good ammo didn't he? The other mods wouldn't effect group size unless I missed something. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darth AkSarBen 20 Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 (edited) Left over Pizza Hut box bottom provided a target for yesterday's shooting of some Remington 150 gr PSP bullets I bought at Dunham's for only $14.99 box. I still have the receipt. Bought 2 boxes. This is a 5 shot group at 100 yards. I shot and couldn't see where it was hitting. Shot again, still not sign of where it was going, to kept shooting the five and last one kind of looked like the air started to open up on the black magic marker bulls eye. Went up to the target and realized why I didn't see them scattered around the bulls eye. So.... I would vote on the Saiga in .308 as one that would be the best candidate for hitting out there to 300 and 500 yards. I don't think it is a sniper rifle, but it would definitely make zombies (that lived) duck for cover at 300+ yards. And, with .308, it better be substantial cover! Edited September 23, 2009 by Darth AkSarBen Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JulianH 4 Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Darth, You haven't done a barrel crown, have you? I'd be really interested to see what kind of groups you get after crowning. Also, .6" @ 100 yds should give between 6" and 10" at 1000yds, right? Do you ever have an opportunity to shoot long range? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scoutjoe 277 Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Clearly the answer is the .410........and if you can't hit with it at that distance you're not a real operator and should go back to training on Rainbow Six 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darth AkSarBen 20 Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Darth, You haven't done a barrel crown, have you? I'd be really interested to see what kind of groups you get after crowning. Also, .6" @ 100 yds should give between 6" and 10" at 1000yds, right? Do you ever have an opportunity to shoot long range? Nope, no barrel crown. I don't fix someting that ain't broke. You put a crown on a barrel when needed. There is nothing to say that this crown is defective, least not in some of the targets. You'll know. I had a Savagae that at even 50 yards would keyhole bullets (.223) Looking at the barrel muzzle, it had some flaw in the rifling. I had a gunsmith cut about 3/4" off the end of the rifle, eliminating the flaw, and re-crowne it. Shot one hole groups after that. I lived in NW Nebraska, pretty open and very rural. VERY open. Longest shot I took and killed the deer was around 800 to 900 yards. I used a bolt action 7mm Remington Magnum at the time. It was a flat shooter, and did well. Other than that, most deer were shot at 200-400 yard ranges. Some though, as close as 40 yards. Also it doesn't quite work out that way at 1000 yards. It's expotentially (if that is the right word) greater the size possibility the greater the distance. Eg. .5 at 100 does not translate to 1" at 200 and 2" at 400 yards. It's a little more complicated than that. Stability of the bullet, the twist of the rifle, the ballistic coeficient of the bullet to resist wind and drop, windage, etc. etc. Even when a bullet goes sonic after being sub-sonic, it can start a wobble that decreases the accuracy at longer ranges. Some bullets are better than others. Boat tail bullets have that advantage of staying super sonic longer, but when they go sonic, they destabilize sometimes worse that flat bottom bullets. Even the design of a bullet is against it; heavier in the rear than the front. Only with the spin from the rifling, and the concentricity of the bullet do you have the possibilities of long long range accurate shots. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Darth, You haven't done a barrel crown, have you? I'd be really interested to see what kind of groups you get after crowning. Also, .6" @ 100 yds should give between 6" and 10" at 1000yds, right? Do you ever have an opportunity to shoot long range? Look up Minute of Angle in shooting. A 1MOA group at 100 yards is a one inch group, 200 yards 2 inch group, and so on. Anything worse than 4MOA is considered inaccurate generally while under 2MOA is accurate for an auto loading rifle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deussne 38 Posted September 27, 2009 Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 Left over Pizza Hut box bottom provided a target for yesterday's shooting of some Remington 150 gr PSP bullets I bought at Dunham's for only $14.99 box. I still have the receipt. Bought 2 boxes. This is a 5 shot group at 100 yards. I shot and couldn't see where it was hitting. Shot again, still not sign of where it was going, to kept shooting the five and last one kind of looked like the air started to open up on the black magic marker bulls eye. Went up to the target and realized why I didn't see them scattered around the bulls eye. So.... I would vote on the Saiga in .308 as one that would be the best candidate for hitting out there to 300 and 500 yards. I don't think it is a sniper rifle, but it would definitely make zombies (that lived) duck for cover at 300+ yards. And, with .308, it better be substantial cover! Wow thats some nice shooting!!!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darth AkSarBen 20 Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Thanks, Andrey! Look forward to meeting you someday and shooting your .308 Saiga as well!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iteachsurfing 50 Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 My vote if for the SV98 by the same Maker as Saiga's I wonder if RAA can get these? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BallzFast 4 Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) maybe these guys might know. but you have to actually watch the video. http://www.youtube.c...ayer_detailpage Edited February 9, 2011 by byron Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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